“When everyone is super, no one will be.” ...Welcome to Genie+

[AdamsMum]

Paper FP encouraged rope drop commando hoarding.

I don't see your point. You could only get one FP at a time, until after your window opened.

 

[shh]

hen people were getting up at 7AM to book their fast passes 60 days out.... I WONDER WHERE THEY GOT THE IDEA PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO DO THAT.

Many people, including me, get up early to go to work daily, so it really wasn't a big a deal to spend a few min setting up FPs from the comfort of my living room. Being obligated to get up early every day of my vacation and hauling myself into the parking lot, tram, bus, fighting RD crowds is a non-starter.

 

[CP3uhoh]

i'm not sure I understand why people think they HAVE to that 7AM thing. You think you won't be able to get a Haunted Mansion Genie+ lightening lane later than that? I don't know I feel like the people with MaxPass experience are far less concerned for good reason. I mean we did the Matterhorn on MaxPass 3x in one day and Space Mountain 2. Now I doubt it will be that simple. Radiator Springs you had to secure before 10 AM usually to get a decent time and that sort of locked you down for a while but if it was further out the did let you book another before that pass, that doesn't appear to be the case here. The only thing I don't like is that they've separated out the most popular rides though I was glad to see Big Thunder, as one example and Smugglers as another being INCLUDED. Clearly Rise and Slinky will be add ons at Hollywood and Splash and Mine Train at MK, possibly Space. That 60 day window thing was embarrassing and completely antiquated. You had the chance of getting lucky when they dropped more at 3 pm. some days but that was completely random. The first time with Max Pass we were like "what is this" and after about two hours I was saying 'god, I wish they would do this in FL". I would just suggest everyone try this before they decide they hate it. I go back to sending someone with all the tickets to a FP station across the park to get FP's for that ride while everyone else stayed in another line. I think a lot of the angst is people not wanting to learn any new system. I've seen people here complain about mobile order which is completely insane. "Oh i have to decide 90 minutes before hand at a handful of places instead of waiting in line for 40 minutes when I get there at Noon, what a nightmare!". Meanwhile, people are making 7 dining reservations they have no intend of keeping 60 days out in case they feel like going that day and then cancel a day before when they decide so they don't pay the $10 per person fee. Some people reading this probably have multiple reservations for Oct. 1 that they have no intention of keeping yet they're hanging on to them just in case. Meanwhile, someone that was 5 minutes later has nothing and has to keep checking for two months hoping something opens up.

I think some of the naysayers may be pleasantly surprised or I could be supremely disappointed. Based on that introduction video, if GENIE does half the stuff it claims, it's going to be awesome but I am skeptical it will deliver on some of that. As in if you tell everyone the wait is later at 8:30 or something, isn't EVERYONE going to wait to do that and therefore increase the predicted time? We'll see. As far as what they charge for the big attractions for lightening lane, I'm not going to pay anything to skip the line at Mine Train since we've been on it so many times. Plus if you have an AH ticket for that day, not sure why would pay for the primary Genie+.

 

[soniam]

Don't be mislead, this wasn't set up to solve any of "our" problems. This is to solve the problem of the parks being closed and low capacity in the last 18 months, and to get the executive bonuses back up to speed. You will still have to plan, but now you'll have to do it at 7 am - every day of your vacation.

Planning wasn't a problem for me, and neither is the new strategy. However, planning seemed to be a big problem/complaint here on the boards and apparently to Disney too.

 

[PetePanMan]

Will be interesting to see which attractions are still available at 8 or 9am for those who don’t like getting up at 7am. If the big rides like 7 dwarves, slinky etc. can’t be booked unless you pay even more, perhaps things will be quite spread out and there will be good availability (particularly given you can only book one)

 

[mommycrawford]

Paper FP encouraged rope drop commando hoarding.

Also, there was uncertainty with return times (if they were enforced).

Scheduling FP+ allowed for a degree of certainty and the ability to be spontaneous around those scheduled times.

And while I require little sleep, the new need to arise every morning to obtain some degree of certainty stops making a vacation a vacation. Rise of the Resistance is absurd; now the absurdity is part of every morning for every Park.

venturing two guesses:
1.) more folks awake @ 7am increases rope drop crowds and/or folks willing to eat an expensive breakfast, and
2.) less alcohol & expensive dinner sales because the adults need to be up before 7am.

Only benefit might be enough discouragement that both standby & FP (now lightning) lines might actually get shorter….for people willing to pay in either time or dollars, respectively

Thanfulky, I can afford to pay for ‘privilege’, but the new daily requirements are likely my breaking-point.

I cannot imagine spending for an expensive vacation and not knowing if I can enjoy a fruitful day in the Parks I have already preselected because I hit the snooze button.

We all pay financially, but those seeming to lose the most are local Annual Passholders and families already extending their budgets. Result could very well be fewer sales for daily admissions (fewer people), with ‘lost’ revenue captured through the new revenue stream.

Seems as if Disney believes not enough high-rolling vacationers will stop buying tickets. I’m not convinced for my family. Shorter stays at Disney and add-on budget days at Universal are increasingly appealing - because the math for time, not the money, has become ridiculous.

I merely stated that it was more spontaneous...required less planning in advance.

 

[mommycrawford]

When I was just a kid, I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Walt Disney wanted to make parks that all could enjoy. If you can get yourself there, you could do the vacation on almost any budget.

The paper fast pass was the first great equalizer. No matter who you were, you could use the free fastpass service. It worked well. Like all systems it had its issues (if a ride was closed). But everyone could participate.

Now they want EVERYONE to pay an upcharge. And If everyone is paying that upcharge, doesn’t that mean we are all waiting on the same long line again.

That was exactly the point I was trying to make!

(I am from Manhattan, and we did the 70s trip in a Datsun B210-you rode in luxury! We waited 2 hours for 20,000 Leagues and it went down before we could board . E-tickets then, so you didn't pay to get in and could use your ticket another day or for another ride.)

Maybe this is just the way New Yorkers see things, but I thank you for elucidating what I was trying to say, but was too put off to express this succinctly

 

[fisher12]

For a solo traveler or DINKs, Genie seems like a fantastic concept. Next month will be my first time going to WDW in a decade but I only have a day at DHS, so I'd happily pay an extra fee to guarantee I can ride RotR. Granted you really shouldn't have to pay for admission to a park and then another fee to ensure you can ride the rides at the park.

If Genie really ends up working where you can just fill out your itinerary, prioritize ride choices, maybe the hours at the park, and then get a notification when it's a good time to ride a particular ride, that does seem more "spontaneous" than needing to check every so often if wait times have changed or not. Although I'm sure they'll hit you with some notification like "Hey! You wanted to ride Haunted Mansion but the wait is going to be over an hour for the rest of the day. Do you want to buy a Lightening Lane pass and ride it now?"

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Nice to hear your take...I think paper Fastpasses really were the most spontaneous! Wander around, grab one, wander around until your ride time. Waking up to make selections at 7 as a perk of staying on property (so getting up way before that to be ready) ; um, er,...hardly spontaneous. Isn't this vacation? I also would like to look at my child on vacation instead of my phone.

so vacation to you was wake up at day break to make sure you got in the park to make use of the system? Fast pass plus was the best select three and I could wake up when I wanted to go.

 

[sethschroeder]

They either make things more expensive

So raise the park tickets and limit capacity.

Solved

 

[sethschroeder]

If Genie really ends up working where you can just fill out your itinerary, prioritize ride choices, maybe the hours at the park, and then get a notification when it's a good time to ride a particular ride, that does seem more "spontaneous" than needing to check every so often if wait times have changed or not.

Get Touringplans. The app exists and the timing will be way more accurate.

Disney is incentivized to not have accurate wait times as it's a way to control crowds while Touringplans is incentivized to have accurate times since it's the only reason people subscribe.

Also it's cheaper.

 

[ComeToSocialize]

I agree that people are a bit too worried about having to get up at 7am. At Disneyland, maxpass never sold out in the first hour for even RSR. RSR would usually be gone by 11 or so on a busy day, space mountain by 1 or 2pm, but not much else would run out until pretty late. While the main reason the Instant access rides are separate is for money, there is a side benefit that the most popular rides won’t be on Genie+ so people will spread our their selections more.

if it’s true that you can only pick next available time, like old school paper FP, then all you’re missing out on by not being first to book a LL pass is that very first ride, when lines should be shorter anyways.

I’m not convinced that everything is going to be sold out before park opens. Before, everyone had 3 FPs to use. Now people only have 1, and it’s only the people who paid. Also, if it really becomes where you can only get 1-2 rides in on G+, then no one will buy it as it becomes stupid. My guess is Disney had mapped it out so you’ll get at least 4 rides in on G+ (with maxpass we would get at least 5 even on the busiest days). And you’ll only really miss out on maybe 1 if you don’t get up at 7, which you’d have missed out on anyways if you’re not rope dropping.

It’s still annoying, but i really don’t think getting up at 7 will give as much advantage as people think. It’s maximum 1 ride.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Get Touringplans. The app exists and the timing will be way more accurate.

Disney is incentivized to not have accurate wait times as it's a way to control crowds while Touringplans is incentivized to have accurate times since it's the only reason people subscribe.

Also it's cheaper.

Genie is free, can't get much cheaper than that.

 

[quandrea]

When I was just a kid, I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Walt Disney wanted to make parks that all could enjoy. If you can get yourself there, you could do the vacation on almost any budget.

You could go to a high end meal, or a Broadway style show. You could also buy a loaf of bread and jar of peanut butter in the gift shop and bring PB&J sandwiches into the park. Most people do not realize that today you can still bring a cooler into WDW with your lunch and/or dinner. Today there are size restrictions on the size of a cooler, but you can absolutely bring your own food and drinks.

That first trip back in the late 70s we drove in the family station wagon from Long Island to Disney. A two day trip, remember the speed limit was 55 back then. We borrowed my “rich” uncle’s battery powered TV, and I duct taped a set of rabbit ears on the roof top carrier. The only time we had a clear picture was when I had hooked up our Atari to the TV, and powered it with a 9 volt battery. But my sisters and my mother did get to watch General Hospital, well at least part of it. Our first ride was the 20,000 leagues under the sea ride. It had a 40 minute wait, and I did not want to wait that long. I got yelled at, which is why I remember it so well.

That trip down memory lane was to make us think about where we all came from. Today, everyone seems to need immediate gratification. Let’s face it, when waiting in line, most people appear to be on their phones, playing a game or watching something. Everyone needs to be engaged it seems 24x7.

We know Disney had already become the vacation where you need to have a degree in project planning to maximize your experience. Sadly, this also means people are mostly jumping from ride to ride, show to show. Nobody is noticing, never mid questioning whey the shutters are crooked Liberty Square. How many people have really noticed the complete absence of restrooms there as well. Nobody is walking up and getting a table at a restaurant unless you made a reservation six months in advance.

You can’t even walk up and order a burger somewhere, you need to place a mobile order on an app. Better do it well in advance. And do not decide that Magic Kingdom is just too busy and cancel your dining reservation and head to EPCOT instead. You will be changed for that cancelled reservation.

Many of these things have changed slowly over time.

The paper fast pass was the first great equalizer. No matter who you were, you could use the free fastpass service. It worked well. Like all systems it had its issues (if a ride was closed). But everyone could participate.

Now it seems Disney has come up with another money grab. I get it, they are a company, and companies are around to make money. I get it, I understand it, hell as a Disney stockholder, I agree with it. But, it seems that not just the ultrarich paying for a VIP guide will suffice Disney. Now they want EVERYONE to pay an upcharge. And If everyone is paying that upcharge, doesn’t that mean we are all waiting on the same long line again. Just if you do not pay, you will never ride that ride.

But, every one of these changes seems to eliminate just a little bit more of that magic. As I reach the next stage of my life, with my daughter informing me this week that I am about to become a grandfather, I wonder what my grandchild’s adventure will be. Will they go to Disney? Will they love it the way we do. Will they be able to afford it?

I guess only time will tell…

This I’d beautifully written. You should consider sending it off to Disney management.

 

[DisneyTarheel]

I can see people limiting days at Disney parks more, maybe down to a couple days. Then move to Universal and stay at a deluxe resort there for a longer, more relaxing vacation.

lol. I *love* WDW, but I’ve never considered any trip primarily involving amusement parks to be relaxing.

 

[DisneyTarheel]

^^ Me too, part of the reason to go on vacation is to relax, be spontaneous, enjoy yourself and not have your nose constantly stuck in your phone. I can just see hoards of people walking into to each other since they are too absorbed in their phone. My life doesn't revolve around my cell phone and clearly won't be during any vacation we take.

So basically a typical day for everyone under 30.

 

[cate2]

I'm hoping that it will be easy to have all of your group on one account so just one person can book everything. We're hoping to be a party of 6 adults in December. If this makes life easier I'm all for it but if there's any issue keeping us all connected I'm going to be very annoyed. I don't want to spend our limited time together staring at a phone trying to figure out how an app works.
I'm okay with the extra $15 but I wish that it included the photo pass that Disneyland includes.

 

[Turksmom]

(I am from Manhattan, and we did the 70s trip in a Datsun B210-you rode in luxury! We waited 2 hours for 20,000 Leagues and it went down before we could board . E-tickets then, so you didn't pay to get in and could use your ticket another day or for another ride.)

Sorry to veer off topic, but my first car was a Datsun B210 GX. I loved that car, but the floor rusted out and the parking brake never worked right and it rolled into a lake Not quite the same as 20,000 Leagues

 

[JZCubed]

I don't see your point. You could only get one FP at a time, until after your window opened.

Multiple strategies were employed by folks in the paper fast pass era.

On this very thread, one person mentioned how they held a place in the standby queue for the family member who had the responsibility of getting fast passes. It was most visible during rope drop at Toy Story Mania.

An additional strategy included the family 'runner' who spent the morning gathering fast passes. This family had no intention of honoring the return times, because Disney only enforced return times for a short period before paper was eliminated. In other words, many families were able to accumulate (hoard) a pile of fast passes they used at what ever times they wanted later in the same day.

Often, the runner was able to maximize their accomplishment because instead of taking the time to go through rides, they spent their time gathering more and more fast passes throughout the morning. If you are willing to pay for Lightening Lanes today, you were likely wiling to pay your teenager to gather the paper back then.

And we can look at a similar strategy in the electronic fast pass era - swapping magic bands. Let's say everyone on the family has a 'free' fast pass, but grandma & grandpa have no intention of riding - then family members swap magic bands to ride again.

Switching everything to electronic fast passes (Genie & Lightening) should minimize the ability to 'outsmart' the system. And there are likely to be fewer families who will pay extra for grandma & grandpa to swap magic bands at E-ticket rides.

Plenty of folks will justify their behavior, but the result is the same - less access for people who are not regularly reading Boards like this and/or who are simply more willing to play fairly.

P.S. - I'll give you an example - if you ever find yourself with the problem of having a restaurant reservation that you should have cancelled, but are facing the $10 penalty for not cancelling......reschedule it for at least 24-hours away, then cancel it. Poof, you beat the system. FWIW, plenty of people hoard restaurant reservations this way, and also by using Open Table in conjunction with Disney. Remember that the next time you can't get the dining reservation you want.

 

[mindeola]

This basically ties you to your phone all day unless you just want to resign yourself to standby all day.

I just don't see this happening. Once I had exhausted my three FP, I always got on my phone as soon as we entered the line on the third FP and grabbed my next one. It took less than a minute.


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