PM EMH drops from THREE Hours to TWO Hours

[Robo]

If you are going to compare then you need to state what type of retailer. A clothing retailer? Of course I'd cross the road as a couple of bucks off a dress isn't a deal breaker. However, if I were in the market to buy a fancy shmancy boat for 1m then 1.1% would be a deal breaker

For joe public, 1 hour less emh is such a small thing, but for Disney its a deal breaker.

If you were intending to buy a $1 Million boat because you liked it, and it was NOT discounted 1.1%, you'd still buy it. (It would be "nice" to save the $$, but overall, 1.1% would not be a deal-breaker.)

But, if you were NOT going to buy the $1 Million boat (due to the high price) and the owner came down 1.1% in the asking price, you're telling me you'd buy it THEN?

OTOH, if you were NOT going to buy the $1 Million boat (due to the high price) and the owner came down 33% in the asking price would that make a difference?

Disney is saving 1.1% in costs.
Guests are losing 33% of the PM EMH hours.

 

[Cafeen]

I don't have time to contradict your points one-by-one so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one

The only real point in there is that people are more prone to be out between 10 and 12 than 1 and 3. Logic follows that since there is a higher overall percent of people being out at those times, there is a higher likelihood of a higher percentage of people being affected by the hour being cut.

Translating into raw numbers is something we don't know, but my own anecdotal experience (which, of course, doesn't count since it goes against what others have said about the "last hour" in different times of the year (which also means the last hour is very different from my last hour, but still, since it's the last hour it must be the same)) suggests that a higher overall number of people are utilizing that last hour. AKA, there have been lines at stuff up to closing that I've seen. But, since others state that there's only 5 riders per hour, I must have been hallucinating (yes, this is misdirected and not particularly meant for KSDisneyDad above )

And my point is that you pay less to be there in a first place. If maximizuing hours is an issue, why not to pay more and go during the time with longer hours.

Moreover, short hours are during slow times, meaning you have very short or no lines all day long, can do much more during regular time then during busy times. And the weather is generally better which eliminates a need for midday break for many people. So at the end, if you going during slow time you may have more active park hours then those who go when it is hot and hide from sun between 11AM and 4PM.

As for %, yes sure 11PM will have more % of EMH guests then 2AM but considering low season has less guests to begin with the actual number may be just the same.

Once again, we all guess without knowing real data. Only Disney knows how many people are really affected.

So, if it's because I pay less, should people in Deluxe Resorts get an extra 3 hours, mods get an extra 2, and values get an extra 1? Since they are paying less to stay, they shouldn't get the same level of experience as those paying more! Then again, I pay more at a mod in September than someone pays at a value in July. So, how does that fall into the equation? This is going to require a spreadsheet to figure out how many park hours I am entitled to!

Weather in September is no different than weather in July, except the occasional TS. Highs are still in the mid 90s with dew points in the mid-upper 70s (or higher). So yeah, you'll still melt, just you can't come back later in the day and expect much more than a couple hours.

But, again, I forgot that I can't be right if I'm saying that I don't agree with a decision Disney made and that I am a horrible unethical evil person for suggesting that I may reduce my vacation time at Disney due to them making changes that I don't agree with. Forgive me?

Disney is saving 1.1% in costs.

At MOST 1.1%. Could be considerably less .

---below this line doesn't relate to that directly above it---
Again, to reiterate. I don't like the changes. They stink. They WILL affect me and they WILL affect my future vacation plans to Disney. Sorry if that's being overdramatic, but it is. I value my time and money I put into these trips. When I continue to get less and less for that money, then it's time to reevaluate if it's worth it to me. Not saying that I'll never be back, but my future trips could be shorter, off-site, and/or cheaper. So, the more Disney cuts back, the more I will. If FLE and CameronLand turn out to be worth it (to me), they'll go into that column on said evaluation.

But, then again, me cutting back on my vacation because I don't feel that the value is worth the cost anymore is offensive apparently.

 

[KellyNY]

If you were intending to buy a $1 Million boat because you liked it, and it was NOT discounted 1.1%, you'd still buy it. (It would be "nice" to save the $$, but overall, 1.1% would not be a deal-breaker.)

But, if you were NOT going to buy the $1 Million boat (due to the high price) and the owner came down 1.1% in the asking price, you're telling me you'd buy it THEN?

OTOH, if you were NOT going to buy the $1 Million boat (due to the high price) and the owner came down 33% in the asking price would that make a difference?

Disney is saving 1.1% in costs.
Guests are losing 33% of the PM EMH hours.

Since we exchange examples, I used to do real estate, you have no idea how often just 1% makes all the difference. I had cases when we, RE were giving away 1% of our money when we were getting only %3 for our service to cover the difference between seler and buyer. 1% is a lot of money and you may not see it on $100 dress but something big is a totally different story.

 

[KellyNY]

The only real point in there is that people are more prone to be out between 10 and 12 than 1 and 3. Logic follows that since there is a higher overall percent of people being out at those times, there is a higher likelihood of a higher percentage of people being affected by the hour being cut.

Translating into raw numbers is something we don't know, but my own anecdotal experience (which, of course, doesn't count since it goes against what others have said about the "last hour" in different times of the year (which also means the last hour is very different from my last hour, but still, since it's the last hour it must be the same)) suggests that a higher overall number of people are utilizing that last hour. AKA, there have been lines at stuff up to closing that I've seen. But, since others state that there's only 5 riders per hour, I must have been hallucinating (yes, this is misdirected and not particularly meant for KSDisneyDad above )


So, if it's because I pay less, should people in Deluxe Resorts get an extra 3 hours, mods get an extra 2, and values get an extra 1? Since they are paying less to stay, they shouldn't get the same level of experience as those paying more! Then again, I pay more at a mod in September than someone pays at a value in July. So, how does that fall into the equation? This is going to require a spreadsheet to figure out how many park hours I am entitled to!

Weather in September is no different than weather in July, except the occasional TS. Highs are still in the mid 90s with dew points in the mid-upper 70s (or higher). So yeah, you'll still melt, just you can't come back later in the day and expect much more than a couple hours.

But, again, I forgot that I can't be right if I'm saying that I don't agree with a decision Disney made and that I am a horrible unethical evil person for suggesting that I may reduce my vacation time at Disney due to them making changes that I don't agree with. Forgive me?

Who said anything about resort categories? Can we compare Apples to Apples and not to Monkeys? I pay more in July then you pay in September, so you get less, very simple. However, to sweeten deal you actually get less crowds and can do more then me in July with more hours. if this is somehow unclear, just check crowds levels, that is it.

As for your last paragraph, can we stay away from childish sarcasm, please? You want to be upset, be upset, you want to shorten/ whatever your vacation, go ahead, you can pay more and stay in July and you can tear any connection with Disney, who cares, up to you.

 

[Robo]

I know some posters have related the loss of 1 EMH to cover costs for new attractions such as FLE etc. Isn't the main purpose/aim of these expansions/ re-designs etc. to attract more people to their parks, or to keep them on site and not to go to other rival theme parks? So I don't understand why they are cutting that hour off of the evening EMH making resort guests have one hour less.

When Universal brought out the Harry Potter Land in Islands of Adventure, did they cut park hours, or cut benefits for guests staying at a Universal resort?

 

[disEAR]

All the complaining has really contributed to me not caring about one less hour in the park anymore.

Over it.

 

[Kare56bear]

Sorry if this is in the thread already. When does this start I am going down the end of this month.

 

[Robo]

Sorry if this is in the thread already. When does this start I am going down the end of this month.

Starts January 2013.

 

[bauer1168]

This is a direct loss for the on-property GUESTS (the EMH perk) of
about 21% cut, if you count AM EMH
about 30% cut, if you count only PM EMH (and many guests ONLY do PM EMH.)


The actual IDEA of EMH was to offer "fewer guests in the park."
That IS what EMH is all about.
It's the reason they could market it as a benefit to resort guests.
So, they DO operate EMH with fewer guests.
(And, have done so for literally years.)
Then, somebody ELSE (who likely was not IN on the creation of EMH)
looks and sees... fewer guests in the park!

"Shazam!... I could save some money here!"

And, the original idea is lost in the shuffle.



Shame.

This is the point that seems to be getting missed I believe. EMH is there to give the feeling resort guests will benefit from quieter times, shorter lines etc. But the 3rd hour is too quiet? Hmmm

Some might say this is going over the top, but I personally see no difference in cutting an hour off Evening EMH, than if they were to charge Resort guests to be able to use Magical Express. This would help Disney towards the costs of buying the coaches, maintaining the coaches, paying the CMs wages who drive the coaches and work at the Magical Express section in the airport, fuel etc.

That would cause a lot of anger for many guests as the big pull for Magical Express is that it is free. The big pull for EMH is for guests to benefit from much shorter lines etc. People use EMH because want more hours in the park and to go on rides with shorter waiting times. What other purpose does it serve? 2 hours in a theme park isn't really that long. From personalexperience, that 3rd hour can make all the difference.

 

[maxiesmom]

Comparing WDW to Universal is not the same thing either. Compare the WDW in the 1980s to Universal, and that may be more fair. Once Universal is anywhere near the size of WDW you can call it a fair comparison. Not now.

 

[Alby]

Comparing WDW to Universal is not the same thing either. Compare the WDW in the 1980s to Universal, and that may be more fair. Once Universal is anywhere near the size of WDW you can call it a fair comparison. Not now.

When size matters in the comparison this is of course true.
For example, I enjoy the front of the line perk for Universal onsite guests, but it is obvious that Disney, given the number and size of its hotels, could never offer the same perk to all guests, and I would never dream of requiring it. (we'll see what happens with FP+).

But here Universal was mentioned only pointing out that it hasn't cut any perk for onsite guests to pay for WWoHP, and I don't think that size falses the comparison here.
If anything, the fact that Universal is smaller and less profitable that WDW made it more possible, not less, that they cut perks to pay for an expansion that cost probably more than FLE. But they haven't.

 

[Fantasmiss]

Very well said!

The actual IDEA of EMH was to offer "fewer guests in the park."
That IS what EMH is all about.
It's the reason they could market it as a benefit to resort guests.

So, they DO operate EMH with fewer guests.
(And, have done so for literally years.)
Then, somebody ELSE (who likely was not IN on the creation of EMH)
looks and sees... fewer guests in the park!

"Shazam!... I could save some money here!"

And, the original idea is lost in the shuffle.

 

[Phatoomch]

If you were intending to buy a $1 Million boat because you liked it, and it was NOT discounted 1.1%, you'd still buy it. (It would be "nice" to save the $$, but overall, 1.1% would not be a deal-breaker.)

But, if you were NOT going to buy the $1 Million boat (due to the high price) and the owner came down 1.1% in the asking price, you're telling me you'd buy it THEN?

OTOH, if you were NOT going to buy the $1 Million boat (due to the high price) and the owner came down 33% in the asking price would that make a difference?

Disney is saving 1.1% in costs.
Guests are losing 33% of the PM EMH hours.

Its like comparing apples to oranges

You are stuck on this 1.1% because to you it seems like such a small number. To Joe Public it is - to quote you, wouldn't cross the road for a 1.1% sale off.

But to Disney, 1.1% is a significant number that can be redirected into FLE.

Statistics are often there to wow people, creating a fact out of indisputable numbers

 

[Fantasmiss]

Potter has brought Universal so much business it's ridiculous though. They must have so much money now that they'll have meetings to try and find ways of getting rid of it.

I want Disney's Fantasyland expansion to be just as successful when it all opens and that they'll earn so much more money because of it that they'll stop making cuts and give us stuff like the last EMH back. Although I don't want increased crowds like in Universal of course....

It's like wanting to get paid, but not wanting to go to work.

Yes, I'm mocking myself!

But here Universal was mentioned only pointing out that it hasn't cut any perk for onsite guests to pay for WWoHP, and I don't think that size falses the comparison here.
If anything, the fact that Universal is smaller and less profitable that WDW made it more possible, not less, that they cut perks to pay for an expansion that cost probably more than FLE. But they haven't.

 

[Robo]

I personally see no difference in cutting an hour off Evening EMH, than if they were to charge Resort guests to be able to use Magical Express. This would help Disney towards the costs of buying the coaches, maintaining the coaches, paying the CMs wages who drive the coaches and work at the Magical Express section in the airport, fuel etc.

This won't matter much for comparison to operating expenses, but Disney doesn't operate DME.

They contract it out to Mears.
Mears buses, Mears drivers, etc.
Just a bit of information.

 

[Cyrano]

This is a final warning. Any poster who resorts to name calling or arguements just because we don't follow your views will have an enforced timeout.

Either behave like sensible adults or walk away from hot button threads

 

[gwmort]

This is the point that seems to be getting missed I believe. EMH is there to give the feeling resort guests will benefit from quieter times, shorter lines etc. But the 3rd hour is too quiet? Hmmm

I disagree, I think the benefit is having more time to enjoy the parks with your family, not to suddenly be able to blitz through a dozen rides.

I don't know the numbers, but I'd wager that the capacity of MK is less than the capacity of all onsite resorts combined. If everyone used the perk, and the goal is to give resort guests a less crowded park, it is a failure. If everyone used the perk and the goal is to give the people staying in your hotels more time to enjoy your park it is a success.

If the goal is to give your guests more time to enjoy the park, but not enough of them are using it to justify the cost, closing earlier is just responding to the demand (or lack thereof) not taking away anything from the majority of guests (because the majority of guests weren't using it).

 

[Azrael]

I'm a little late to the thread, but it has been an interesting read. I am disappointed that Disney would make a cut such as this. Give me plain napkins any day, but don't take away my hour!

 

[baler31]

Sorry but I travel only in the off season. And I have never seen a TSMM FP available at 3 or 4 in the afternoon. Same for Soarin.

And your experience the week after Labor Day is not indicative of anything across the board. That is probably the single slowest week of the year.

We have been in September, October, November, December and January. I have yet to encounter an empty park without lines.

The TSMM after July 4th was a fluke, I had friends there and yes it happened. July 4th was very slow for Disney this year, compared to previous years.

I just looked at my journals for this year and of the 31 days we spent in DHS there were no TSMM FP's available after 11:30am. Some days ran out earlier but none were available on any of those days spread out over busy and slow time after 11:30am.

 

[baler31]

I was there over Independence Day and they were available in afternoon as I said, and I did saw other reports stating just the same but as I said you are free not to believe me.
As for getting less for your money, I do not think that you are getting less considering what you pay and you are free to go during other times. I spend more just to be able to see Independence Day fireworks, my choice and I did EMH only one day, my choice again, I did not ask to return my money even so I paid for the perk. Nobody is forcing anyone to stay when park hours are shorter, your choice, nothing else.

The TSMM after July 4th was a fluke, I had friends there and yes it happened. July 4th was very slow for Disney this year, compared to previous years.

I just looked at my journals for this year and of the 31 days we spent in DHS there were no TSMM FP's available after 11:30am. Some days ran out earlier but none were available on any of those days spread out over busy and slow time after 11:30am.


Sorry double post.