PM EMH drops from THREE Hours to TWO Hours

[tiki23]

Sorry, but it's not. It's about people being different and appreciating different things. As I said, WDW could close down all the thrill rides and Animatronic shows and I'd be completely fine with it. The last hour of EMH is one of my favourite things about WDW, I don't lack perspective. I most certainly do not. And I'm not negative, or whatever else you think I might be. I just have a different opinion/taste than you.

Well said.

 

[bcrook]

Evening EMH is a perk.
It has been cut.
This is a planning board, and this information is important to me.
My entire strategy for touring is based on evening EMH: I go to a non EMH Park during the day and hop to the late stay every night there is one available. All my plans are based on the evening EMH.

Without the third hour, it is not worth going. As everyone knows the EMH parks are the most crowded during the day, and they don't clear out until late in the EMH. And as robo keeps saying, this isn't just about MK staying open to 2:00. Most EMH throughout the year at all three parks end around midnight. New fantasyland construction has nothing to do with DHS EMH.

Because of this change, I probably will avoid evening EMH parks.
If I don't go to EMH - I have to reconsider getting hoppers and reconsider convincing my travel mates to stay on site (the best perk has been cut). Even though, I have some DVC points, I also have Wyndham points, and now I might be willing to stay at bonnet creek more because the problem with BC before was missing out on the evening EMH.

This change has affected MY plans. This is a planning board. Thank you Robo for the heads up. I have decisions to make.

 

[Cafeen]

Shorter regular hours is the price to pay for going during slow times/ less crowds, you get less hours but it is also cheaper.

Except, we're talking about that last PM EMH hour here, not regular hours. Since the regular hours are shorter, the last PM EMH hour is considerably earlier, which means that it's more prone to be more populated than during peak season.

Many more people are apt to be out and about between 10pm and midnight (this covers the PM EMHs that, until 2013, last until 11pm-midnight) than 1am-3am. As such, relatively more people are likely to be affected in the low season when things are already cut down from the high season (those people who are able/willing to utilize the full PM EMH).

Since there's likely a higher percentage of guests utilizing that last hour, which may even translate to a higher raw number, the cuts make less sense in low season than in high season if it's just all about the "5 riders per hour" statement.

 

[bcrook]

I also don't understand the arguments that Disney should close the park because not enough people are riding the rides.

My last trip, I was on site for 11 days (late May early June). We made every EMH. The parks weren't empty. We might have been able to ride Splash five minutes before close without a wait, but not at the beginning of the third hour. Peter pan forget it! At two in the morning closing I rode dumbo (my avatar) and the ride was full.

 

[DebbieB]

You think this is bad, I was thinking about the first time I went to WDW in October 1994. MK closed at 7:00pm everynight. No evening parade or fireworks. MGM had Sorcery in the Sky on Saturday night only, that was before Fantasmic started. I was so excited when I returned in November 1996 during the 25th anniversary, Spectromagic and fireworks were every night.

 

[vacationer1954]

They're going to decide how much to spend on the parks completely separately from all this, so I would prefer that when they decide how to spend that money they've decided to spend that they spend it most wisely. (Really I would prefer they spend it on the things I want most, but a good compromise is spending it on the things that we all together prefer most.)

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Sorry, but it's not. It's about people being different and appreciating different things. As I said, WDW could close down all the thrill rides and Animatronic shows and I'd be completely fine with it. The last hour of EMH is one of my favourite things about WDW, I don't lack perspective. I most certainly do not. And I'm not negative, or whatever else you think I might be. I just have a different opinion/taste than you.

I think you misinterpreted the exchange. I had said that those who disagree are not unsympathetic to those who want to keep the 3rd hour, it's just that we don't agree with those who do. Understanding and agreeing are too different things and yes it's different perspectives. I understand your perspective, or as you say "appreciating different things". (Well actually I cannot fathom closing down all thrill rides and animatronic shows and being okay with it, but whatever floats your boat.) It doesn't mean I have to agree with your opinion as you don't have to agree with mine.

And not "everyone" who thinks that the 3rd hour should remain open is all "doom and gloom" just as not "everyone" who is ambivalent about the 3rd hour EMH closing is not sniffing pixie dust.

Except, we're talking about that last PM EMH hour here, not regular hours. Since the regular hours are shorter, the last PM EMH hour is considerably earlier, which means that it's more prone to be more populated than during peak season.

Many more people are apt to be out and about between 10pm and midnight (this covers the PM EMHs that, until 2013, last until 11pm-midnight) than 1am-3am. As such, relatively more people are likely to be affected in the low season when things are already cut down from the high season (those people who are able/willing to utilize the full PM EMH).

Since there's likely a higher percentage of guests utilizing that last hour, which may even translate to a higher raw number, the cuts make less sense in low season than in high season if it's just all about the "5 riders per hour" statement.

I don't have time to contradict your points one-by-one so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one and

You think this is bad, I was thinking about the first time I went to WDW in October 1994. MK closed at 7:00pm everynight. No evening parade or fireworks. MGM had Sorcery in the Sky on Saturday night only, that was before Fantasmic started. I was so excited when I returned in November 1996 during the 25th anniversary, Spectromagic and fireworks were every night.

But 1994 was part of the good old days before not only EMH, but even before the entier Animal Kingdom park, Test Track, Soarin', Mission: Space, Tower of Terror, Rock N' Roller Coaster, Mickey's Philharmagic, Buzz Lightyear, Reflections of Earth, MMY, Pop Century and even for those looking to expand their vacation to sea, the Disney Cruise Line. Or even before some of the attempted improvements that missed such as Stitch, JIYI, free dining, etc. I guess at least you had inexpensive tickets and better souvenirs to compensate for missing out on so much.

 

[bauer1168]

Apologies for the long essay here, just had a few opinion/thoughts I wanted to put down.

I personally am disappointed by the news of the cut. Absolutely loved the evening EMH 3 hours when I was last there and whichever park had the Evening EMH during my stay, I would use them to their fullest.

Most of the time it would be in the range of 8PM - 11PM or 9PM - 12AM. Personally, didn't see much difference in crowd levels during these 3 hours. Waits were just as big from 8-9PM as compared to 10-11PM. This is what some people seem to be missing it seems.

I was lucky enough to go to an Evening EMH 12AM - 3AM on MLK weekend. Best 3 hours I've ever had in a Disney Park, any theme park. I can understand if they want to cut it to say 12AM - 2AM. However, making it 8-10pm instead of 11PM is a head scratcher. I wouldn't mind if they were replacing that EMH by keeping the park open an extra hour for general public, but it doesn't seem that's even happening.

EMH for some people, like myself, are the main reason for choosing to stay at a Disney resort. That benefit has been cut by 33.333% for evening, and 25% in total. Also, being from the U.K. , an average holiday to Orlando is 14days for us, tens of thousands of Brits do it every year with a good portion staying at a Disney resort with the main reason being to utilise EMH to their fullest. If there will be 6-7 Evening EMH in the space of 14 days, that's a potential 6-7 hours lost right there. There are many who use the last EMH hour.

When the evening EMH kick in, it is not as if all the rides are completely emptied out of guests, ready for the resort guests to use with 0 minute wait time. A lot of off site guests will go to their desired rides with 5 minutes before closing under the perception the line will be shorter as it's nearing closing time. This seems most evident with TSM at DHS, I've done it myself walking into the queue at 6:59PM when the park closes at 7PM due to its short 40 minute wait for example. (For the record, I am not saying this should be stopped, off site guests have as much right to ride any ride they want within the park opening hours just as much as anyone else does, I would do it myself).

So, DHS has Evening EMH 7PM-10PM. Let's say the wait at 7PM is 40mins, all the guests who are there are going to flock to TSM mainly, that or RNR or TOT. That queue will get longer and longer. The 3rd hour is there to give resort guests more breathing space. Two Extra magic hours in DHS won't get much done.

I can understand when people say it would help cut costs, save money etc. If it's during low season (September say). But if they were really looking to save money, why not cut Wishes to every other day instead of every day (I hope that NEVER happens). That would save them a hell of a lot of money on fireworks. People would be in shops buying merch, food, drinks, putting dollars into their tills. People would be riding rides instead of sitting around the hub. (Not trying to steer off topic, just using it as an example to reinforce my opinion)

What would people think if they cut MVMCP to 7PM-11PM on the quieter days to save money?

I find it hard to believe a previous post said their DD CM claimed only about 5 people on each ride during the last hour. Only 5 people riding Space Mountain, Splash Mouchtain, Big Thunder, Buzz Lightyear each during last hour? really? The 3rd hour is a great time to ride the fantasyland rides which can normally be 45-60+min wait times during the day or other popular rides.

I could be wrong, but some people might be worrying this is that start of EMH getting taken away. Who's to say it may go down to 1 hour?

I don't think the sky is falling at all, i do think it's disappointing however. That one hour decrease won't ruin the holiday, it will make it more difficult. I will always go back to Disney though, it's the dream holiday for me. Would rather be there than working!

 

[KellyNY]

Except, we're talking about that last PM EMH hour here, not regular hours. Since the regular hours are shorter, the last PM EMH hour is considerably earlier, which means that it's more prone to be more populated than during peak season.

Many more people are apt to be out and about between 10pm and midnight (this covers the PM EMHs that, until 2013, last until 11pm-midnight) than 1am-3am. As such, relatively more people are likely to be affected in the low season when things are already cut down from the high season (those people who are able/willing to utilize the full PM EMH).

Since there's likely a higher percentage of guests utilizing that last hour, which may even translate to a higher raw number, the cuts make less sense in low season than in high season if it's just all about the "5 riders per hour" statement.

And my point is that you pay less to be there in a first place. If maximizuing hours is an issue, why not to pay more and go during the time with longer hours.

Moreover, short hours are during slow times, meaning you have very short or no lines all day long, can do much more during regular time then during busy times. And the weather is generally better which eliminates a need for midday break for many people. So at the end, if you going during slow time you may have more active park hours then those who go when it is hot and hide from sun between 11AM and 4PM.

As for %, yes sure 11PM will have more % of EMH guests then 2AM but considering low season has less guests to begin with the actual number may be just the same.

Once again, we all guess without knowing real data. Only Disney knows how many people are really affected.

 

[ghtx]

Personally, didn't see much difference in crowd levels during these 3 hours. Waits were just as big from 8-9PM as compared to 10-11PM. This is what some people seem to be missing it seems.

The consensus seems to be the opposite. Everyone else's experience seems to be that the last hour is significantly less crowded than the first two.

 

[SaraJayne]

The consensus seems to be the opposite. Everyone else's experience seems to be that the last hour is significantly less crowded than the first two.

If EMH ends before midnight, there is no difference in crowd levels. It's when they range into the 1am, 2 and 3am time that you see a measurable decline in crowd levels.

Those last late hours (that we personally love) are now being cut.

 

[labattblue]

While I really like being able to tour a nearly empty MK during the 3rd hour of PM EMH, I can understand them taking away the 3rd hour if the number of people taking advantage of it doesn't justify the costs involved.

 

[Colleen27]

When the evening EMH kick in, it is not as if all the rides are completely emptied out of guests, ready for the resort guests to use with 0 minute wait time. A lot of off site guests will go to their desired rides with 5 minutes before closing under the perception the line will be shorter as it's nearing closing time. This seems most evident with TSM at DHS, I've done it myself walking into the queue at 6:59PM when the park closes at 7PM due to its short 40 minute wait for example. (For the record, I am not saying this should be stopped, off site guests have as much right to ride any ride they want within the park opening hours just as much as anyone else does, I would do it myself).

So, DHS has Evening EMH 7PM-10PM. Let's say the wait at 7PM is 40mins, all the guests who are there are going to flock to TSM mainly, that or RNR or TOT. That queue will get longer and longer. The 3rd hour is there to give resort guests more breathing space. Two Extra magic hours in DHS won't get much done.

And realistically, the line for TSM is very seldom as short as 40min. We're used to seeing 90-120min in the evening, which means with a 2 hour EMH resort guests have no real advantage at all because the EMH will be ending by the time all the day guests work through the line.

And my point is that you pay less to be there in a first place. If maximizuing hours is an issue, why not to pay more and go during the time with longer hours.

Moreover, short hours are during slow times, meaning you have very short or no lines all day long, can do much more during regular time then during busy times. And the weather is generally better which eliminates a need for midday break for many people. So at the end, if you going during slow time you may have more active park hours then those who go when it is hot and hide from sun between 11AM and 4PM.

I haven't found that to be true AT ALL. Yes, shorter hours correspond to slower seasons, but Disney also scales back ride capacity at times of lower demand, running fewer ride vehicles than they do at peak times. Shorter lines, yes, in most cases but very seldom NO lines. You'll wait an hour plus for Soarin' in January as surely as in June, and TSM FPs will be gone sometime around 10-11am no matter the season.

What you make up in not taking an afternoon break - assuming that heat is the only reason to take one, which just isn't true for many people - is lost in shorter park hours (5pm close instead of 8 at AK, 8 instead of 11 or 12 at MK, 7 instead of 9 or 10 at Studios).

And those lower rates already come with significant trade-offs - more ride rehabs, more construction projects around the parks and resorts, more likelihood of pool closures, weather that frequently interferes with enjoying amenities such as pools, movies, and other outdoor activities at the resorts, shorter park hours (even with EMH), less evening entertainment, etc.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Count me among those who can understand (somewhat) why they cut it, have never really used it all that often, and think it stinks that it got cut.

IMO, an empty park late at night is one of the most magical things that happen at WDW.

 

[Robo]

While I really like being able to tour a nearly empty MK during the 3rd hour of PM EMH, I can understand them taking away the 3rd hour if the number of people taking advantage of it doesn't justify the costs involved.

There is "significant savings" and there is "not-so-much savings."



Rough numbers:

MK, Ep, DHS, DAK hours open per week ***
including 1-hour AM EMH x5 (MK x1, Ep x1, DHS x1, DAK x2)
including 3-hour PM EMH x4 (MK x2, Ep x1, DHS x1, DAK x0)
= 350 Theme Park hours open weekly, AVERAGE

Cut 4 hours per week of PM EMH (MK x2, Ep x1, DHS x1, DAK x0)
= 346 Theme Park hours open weekly, AVERAGE

Result:
Save 4 hours out of 350 in on-line CM wages (some in overtime) per week, across the board.

That is a rough wages savings of ONE-point-one percent. (.011) or (1.1%)

Is this the kind of powerful cost-cutting that will "make or break" the bottom line for Disney Parks?



*** Open hours per week (average)
MK = 101
Ep = 92
DHS = 92
DAK = 65

 

[Colleen27]

If EMH ends before midnight, there is no difference in crowd levels. It's when they range into the 1am, 2 and 3am time that you see a measurable decline in crowd levels.

Those last late hours (that we personally love) are now being cut.

Yep. And something that is getting lost in the rush to defend Disney is that they're cutting a LOT of busy and semi-busy hours with this move too. Everyone is focused on the 1-2 hours a week at busier times of year when the MK is open into the wee hours, but they're not looking at the fact that the last hour at Epcot and Studios where EMH end far earlier and tend to remain busy right until the end, as does MK EMH in the slower seasons when an extra 3 hours only pushes closing back to 11 or 12.

On our last Epcot EMH we waited 40min for Test Track around 11pm and skipped Soarin' because it was still posting a 60min wait (Lines actual/reported, not wait-time-sign) just before midnight. At midnight on a night when Studios EMH ended atl 1am, TSM had an hour's wait. That's not the "5 guests per hour", "too few people to be worth staying open" that have been brought up as justification for this move. If it were all about that last hour at the Magic Kingdom at 2 or 3am, Disney could have used the "up to" language that has always been present in the EMH description to shorten the EMH there without cutting back on the far busier last hour of EMH at the other parks.

 

[KellyNY]

And realistically, the line for TSM is very seldom as short as 40min. We're used to seeing 90-120min in the evening, which means with a 2 hour EMH resort guests have no real advantage at all because the EMH will be ending by the time all the day guests work through the line.



I haven't found that to be true AT ALL. Yes, shorter hours correspond to slower seasons, but Disney also scales back ride capacity at times of lower demand, running fewer ride vehicles than they do at peak times. Shorter lines, yes, in most cases but very seldom NO lines. You'll wait an hour plus for Soarin' in January as surely as in June, and TSM FPs will be gone sometime around 10-11am no matter the season.

What you make up in not taking an afternoon break - assuming that heat is the only reason to take one, which just isn't true for many people - is lost in shorter park hours (5pm close instead of 8 at AK, 8 instead of 11 or 12 at MK, 7 instead of 9 or 10 at Studios).

And those lower rates already come with significant trade-offs - more ride rehabs, more construction projects around the parks and resorts, more likelihood of pool closures, weather that frequently interferes with enjoying amenities such as pools, movies, and other outdoor activities at the resorts, shorter park hours (even with EMH), less evening entertainment, etc.

Just because you do not find it to be true does not mean it is not, as I said nobody knows read data from Disney.

I did not go in January but I did after Labor Day and most of the rides were just a walk on, just my experience, not a scientific data of course. As for TSM, FP do not fly out in a morning anymore, according to many peoples reports, during busy times they were still available around 3-4PM, only logical to assume you will have even better luck during slow times. Soarin was also available around 3PM, I assume when TT will reopen, situation may be even better. So, yes you can do much more during slow time then during July, one of the main reasons people go.

As for less available during slow times, you get what you pay for, if it's not enough, pay more and get more.

 

[mesaboy2]

Just because you do not find it to be true does not mean it is not, as I said nobody knows read data from Disney.

I did not go in January but I did after Labor Day and most of the rides were just a walk on, just my experience, not a scientific data of course. As for TSM, FP do not fly out in a morning anymore, according to many peoples reports, during busy times they were still available around 3-4PM, only logical to assume you will have even better luck during slow times. Soarin was also available around 3PM, I assume when TT will reopen, situation may be even better. So, yes you can do much more during slow time then during July, one of the main reasons people go.

As for less available during slow times, you get what you pay for, if it not enough, pay more and get more.

I call shenanigans. I daresay I watch these boards as much as you and I don't believe this for a second. I recall one or two reports saying this, no more. If you wish to prove it--I don't really care--than quote them for me. If you can find 5, I'll publicly eat crow.

 

[bauer1168]

I know some posters have related the loss of 1 EMH to cover costs for new attractions such as FLE etc. Isn't the main purpose/aim of these expansions/ re-designs etc. to attract more people to their parks, or to keep them on site and not to go to other rival theme parks? So I don't understand why they are cutting that hour off of the evening EMH making resort guests have one hour less.

When Universal brought out the Harry Potter Land in Islands of Adventure, did they cut park hours, or cut benefits for guests staying at a Universal resort?

 

[KellyNY]

I call shenanigans. I daresay I watch these boards as much as you and I don't believe this for a second. I recall one or two reports saying this, no more. If you wish to prove it--I don't really care--than quote them for me. If you can find 5, I'll publicly eat crow.

You are free to believe whatever you want, every time someone posts about longer availability, some just disreagard it as anecdotal stories, so what is the point for me to waste my time. I saw those reports, you did not, OK then. If someone wants to keep running to TSM at RD to get a FP, up to them. Just wish I did not listen to horror FP stories before my trip, 3days of RD were absolutely not needed for my family.