a change I wish I could make

[TheLanes]

I am probably going to get flamed for this but here it goes. I am not sure where we draw the line on these types of conversations. I have seen numerous conversations about "how dare people (XXX) because it is against the rules". This can be applied to, but is not limited to, the following...

1. Shorts in the dining rooms
2. Seat saving at the shows
3. Deck chair saving
4. Etc.

I have read people complaining about how dare "this person" do "that" because it is against the rules. Now here we are talking about taking children out of the education system to take an "educational" vacation. In many locations, missing school for an unexcused absence is called Truancy and is a crime in many areas. Last time I checked a vacation is not an excused absence. It is just against the rules/ laws. Saying the rules do not apply to you so that you can take a cheaper "educational" vacation is really a stretch. Is the value of the vacation to your child's education any greater during the school year than it would be during the more expensive vacation season? Honestly, I would love to hear what is so educational about taking a vacation cruise and visiting tourist areas. Really, please enlighten me.

Now that said, I am are that there is no one on this particular thread would ever have complained about anything that I mentioned above because we can see past these minor "restrictions" that we call rules and do not see the need to worry with them. I am sure that none of us will ever complain either when we book a veranda and a smoker lights up next to us. After all, they are choosing to "flex" the rules because they are inconvenient to them, so it is all good there also.

Sure my wife is going to boot me for posting this, but I just needed to say it.

So, let me enlighten you. I won't address the rest of your thread, but my main concern is you saying I am breaking a rule by pulling my kid out. Our district has an independent study policy that allows for 5 or more days out, regardless of reason. That is NOT breaking a rule.

Some folks on this thread have discussed how they made it educational. They truly did it I believe. I was arguing at first that no one should call the cruise educational, but there are so many ways to do it, if you try.

It all comes down to what is best for your kids. Some kids should never miss a minute, and probably need tutor help to catch up. Some kids can miss a week and not skip a beat. Thankfully, our kids are like that, and we spend the time at night to ensure that.

 

[PaceFamily]

So, let me enlighten you. I won't address the rest of your thread, but my main concern is you saying I am breaking a rule by pulling my kid out. Our district has an independent study policy that allows for 5 or more days out, regardless of reason. That is NOT breaking a rule.

Some folks on this thread have discussed how they made it educational. They truly did it I believe. I was arguing at first that no one should call the cruise educational, but there are so many ways to do it, if you try.

It all comes down to what is best for your kids. Some kids should never miss a minute, and probably need tutor help to catch up. Some kids can miss a week and not skip a beat. Thankfully, our kids are like that, and we spend the time at night to ensure that.

As I stated, MOST places. This really comes down to my point. If you want to take your children out of school for vacation it is up to you, your teachers and what is best for your children. But, and I mean this in the nicest way, please lets not pretend that this is really done for the educational purpose but instead for a cost factor for MOST. I understand that some have restrictions where they can not get off during the prime vacation times. I too have been there and I chose to keep my kids in school and we just did not vacation. That was MY choice and we still choose to keep our child in school.

 

[fredgirls]

I am probably going to get flamed for this but here it goes. I am not sure where we draw the line on these types of conversations. I have seen numerous conversations about "how dare people (XXX) because it is against the rules". This can be applied to, but is not limited to, the following...

1. Shorts in the dining rooms
2. Seat saving at the shows
3. Deck chair saving
4. Etc.

I have read people complaining about how dare "this person" do "that" because it is against the rules. Now here we are talking about taking children out of the education system to take an "educational" vacation. In many locations, missing school for an unexcused absence is called Truancy and is a crime in many areas. Last time I checked a vacation is not an excused absence. It is just against the rules/ laws. Saying the rules do not apply to you so that you can take a cheaper "educational" vacation is really a stretch. Is the value of the vacation to your child's education any greater during the school year than it would be during the more expensive vacation season? Honestly, I would love to hear what is so educational about taking a vacation cruise and visiting tourist areas. Really, please enlighten me.

Now that said, I am are that there is no one on this particular thread would ever have complained about anything that I mentioned above because we can see past these minor "restrictions" that we call rules and do not see the need to worry with them. I am sure that none of us will ever complain either when we book a veranda and a smoker lights up next to us. After all, they are choosing to "flex" the rules because they are inconvenient to them, so it is all good there also.

Sure my wife is going to boot me for posting this, but I just needed to say it.

At the end of the day it is always a family's personal choice.

I guess some school districts across the US are stricter than others. I feel so sorry for those who live in an area where taking your kids out of school to broaden their views and experiences is a crime! I feel very lucky to have more educational freedom.

I do feel very strongly that there is a lot to learn from seeing the world and a lot of life experiences to be gained from visiting 'tourist areas', (whatever that means! ) Our children have been exposed to culture and language around the world and are definitely more understanding of the world for it.

 

[cjbcam]

I am probably going to get flamed for this but here it goes. I am not sure where we draw the line on these types of conversations. I have seen numerous conversations about "how dare people (XXX) because it is against the rules". This can be applied to, but is not limited to, the following...

1. Shorts in the dining rooms
2. Seat saving at the shows
3. Deck chair saving
4. Etc.

I have read people complaining about how dare "this person" do "that" because it is against the rules. Now here we are talking about taking children out of the education system to take an "educational" vacation. In many locations, missing school for an unexcused absence is called Truancy and is a crime in many areas. Last time I checked a vacation is not an excused absence. It is just against the rules/ laws. Saying the rules do not apply to you so that you can take a cheaper "educational" vacation is really a stretch. Is the value of the vacation to your child's education any greater during the school year than it would be during the more expensive vacation season? Honestly, I would love to hear what is so educational about taking a vacation cruise and visiting tourist areas. Really, please enlighten me.

Now that said, I am are that there is no one on this particular thread would ever have complained about anything that I mentioned above because we can see past these minor "restrictions" that we call rules and do not see the need to worry with them. I am sure that none of us will ever complain either when we book a veranda and a smoker lights up next to us. After all, they are choosing to "flex" the rules because they are inconvenient to them, so it is all good there also.

Sure my wife is going to boot me for posting this, but I just needed to say it.

Some parents can't take holidays when school breaks are, period. There is no arguing that point. So what? A family like that just isn't supposed to take holidays? No way I'm going to miss out on those important family vacations, which kids do learn things on, just because some people think its "wrong". Sometimes things aren't black and white like you seem to think.

 

[jjje]

Do you want an honest opinion from a teacher? Flame me if you want, but here is what your teacher will not tell you, unless you get a glass of wine in him/her

The students who are polite, respectful, follow directions, generally turn into assignments, ask questions and get help when needed, and have parents that treat me like a partner in their kids education: I am glad they are going on vacation, have a great time. It has nothing to do with academic aptitude, I am talking about all the other qualities. For those students, I will gladly spend 30 minutes out of my Sunday to put together a packet for you. Do it, but have a great trip!

The students who are terrible in class, disrupt the learning of other students, have a terrible attitude, have parents that never respond to my phone calls and/or say "My little Johnny would never throw a chair at you or call another student (insert curse word / ethnic slur / sexual orientation slur), you must be a bad teacher or it is your fault somehow. Those are the students that seem to get most of the vacations, and NEVER, I mean NEVER turn in the packets I make them. Those are the students your teachers and office staff resent, and when you have little Sally the terror on vacation, we are just glad they are gone so everyone else can learn. I had a student a Disneyland last week who makes it is daily mission to bring other students off task.

Be nice to your teacher, make them a partner in your kids education, and have a great trip. I have kids too, I know how much pricier things are at school breaks.

I dont know the point of this post, other than to give you some insight into the mind of a teacher about vacations.

Thank you for sharing this point of view. I try very hard to have kids who fall into the first group. So far my kids' teachers have always been supportive of our family trips.

I am probably going to get flamed for this but here it goes. I am not sure where we draw the line on these types of conversations. I have seen numerous conversations about "how dare people (XXX) because it is against the rules". This can be applied to, but is not limited to, the following...

1. Shorts in the dining rooms
2. Seat saving at the shows
3. Deck chair saving
4. Etc.

I have read people complaining about how dare "this person" do "that" because it is against the rules. Now here we are talking about taking children out of the education system to take an "educational" vacation. In many locations, missing school for an unexcused absence is called Truancy and is a crime in many areas. Last time I checked a vacation is not an excused absence. It is just against the rules/ laws. Saying the rules do not apply to you so that you can take a cheaper "educational" vacation is really a stretch. Is the value of the vacation to your child's education any greater during the school year than it would be during the more expensive vacation season? Honestly, I would love to hear what is so educational about taking a vacation cruise and visiting tourist areas. Really, please enlighten me.

Now that said, I am are that there is no one on this particular thread would ever have complained about anything that I mentioned above because we can see past these minor "restrictions" that we call rules and do not see the need to worry with them. I am sure that none of us will ever complain either when we book a veranda and a smoker lights up next to us. After all, they are choosing to "flex" the rules because they are inconvenient to them, so it is all good there also.

Sure my wife is going to boot me for posting this, but I just needed to say it.

The problem here is you don't know all the rules. I've always had permission to take my kids out of school. Never in my son's 9 years of school (or my daughter's 3) have they ever had an unexcused absence and that is with us pulling them out of school for various family trips every year. It is 100% possible to work with the school (depending on where you live) to take vacations during the school year and stay within the rules.

I'm not for one second going to claim that my kids are getting a math education as they get their nth cup of ice cream for the day or learning social studies as they ride the water slide. I do know that last week, on the same day my family was riding inner tubes down the Martha Brea river in Jamaica, listening to our guide describe the history of the river and of the country, my daughter's class was back in Minnesota watching Bambi. So.... yeah. I feel pretty good about the real world learning opportunities my kids got on our cruise.

 

[neg58]

My parents took us out of elementary for Disney trips. He had business shows and seminars and would combine the two. He heard flack about it. Once. And then he pointed out that he had to keep us kids out of school the day that they hired ghost story tellers for assembly (how was that education?), or about the times the kids would hold hands end to end to show how big a whale was (he was taking us to SeaWorld.) He never heard another complaint again.

After elementary, we were homeschooled. England several times (actually walking around the Battle of Hastings where William won. How many times do you get to read about that, but to BE there to SEE IT? Same with Tower of London. SO much history there.) We have been blessed to go a lot of places. We never suffered for our education. We are all successful, and it was wonderful family time that you can NEVER NEVER get back!

I also know a youngster (1st grader last year, 2nd this year) who got to spend several weeks in Nicaragua, is going to visit all the Hawaiian Islands in Jan (stand on REAL volcanic parks and see real volcanoes, etc). He is seeing the world, people, and he just turned 8.

What could be better than that?

There are many types of schools that allow travel at the family's convenience, so people who want that flexibility should chose one of those types of schools - home school, expeditionary learning, year round, virtual school, sports academies.

I've been to China and I've been to the China pavilion at Epcot. They aren't the same so don't try to justify a vacation to WDW as a great learning experience. Of course family trips can be memorable, but can't that happen during the school breaks, on Saturdays, or by not breaking school rules on attendance? I learn stuff by watching tv all the time, but I don't think my kids should miss school to stay home and watch tv.

If it is important to your family to have flexibility to travel, chose a school that is flexible or home school. There are options.

Nancy

 

[TheLanes]

Thank you for sharing this point of view. I try very hard to have kids who fall into the first group. So far my kids' teachers have always been supportive of our family trips.



The problem here is you don't know all the rules. I've always had permission to take my kids out of school. Never in my son's 9 years of school (or my daughter's 3) have they ever had an unexcused absence and that is with us pulling them out of school for various family trips every year. It is 100% possible to work with the school (depending on where you live) to take vacations during the school year and stay within the rules.

I'm not for one second going to claim that my kids are getting a math education as they get their nth cup of ice cream for the day or learning social studies as they ride the water slide. I do know that last week, on the same day my family was riding inner tubes down the Martha Brea river in Jamaica, listening to our guide describe the history of the river and of the country, my daughter's class was back in Minnesota watching Bambi. So.... yeah. I feel pretty good about the real world learning opportunities my kids got on our cruise.

Well put! PaceFamily is simply trying to say that folks shouldn't try to label taking a cruise as an educational experience only. Truly, we want to have fun with our families for a week, during the school year, so now we need to make it educational...

 

[redmomof4]

Do you want an honest opinion from a teacher? Flame me if you want, but here is what your teacher will not tell you, unless you get a glass of wine in him/her The students who are polite, respectful, follow directions, generally turn into assignments, ask questions and get help when needed, and have parents that treat me like a partner in their kids education: I am glad they are going on vacation, have a great time. It has nothing to do with academic aptitude, I am talking about all the other qualities. For those students, I will gladly spend 30 minutes out of my Sunday to put together a packet for you. Do it, but have a great trip! The students who are terrible in class, disrupt the learning of other students, have a terrible attitude, have parents that never respond to my phone calls and/or say "My little Johnny would never throw a chair at you or call another student (insert curse word / ethnic slur / sexual orientation slur), you must be a bad teacher or it is your fault somehow. Those are the students that seem to get most of the vacations, and NEVER, I mean NEVER turn in the packets I make them. Those are the students your teachers and office staff resent, and when you have little Sally the terror on vacation, we are just glad they are gone so everyone else can learn. I had a student a Disneyland last week who makes it is daily mission to bring other students off task. Be nice to your teacher, make them a partner in your kids education, and have a great trip. I have kids too, I know how much pricier things are at school breaks. I dont know the point of this post, other than to give you some insight into the mind of a teacher about vacations.

I love this post!! Thanks for being so candid!

 

[scrapshappen]

We just got back from our cruise last week. We originally planned it when both my children were suppose to be off track on their year round school schedule. Right after our PIF date, my older son (fifth grade) had the opportunity to transfer to a magnet school for gifted children on a traditional school schedule in the neighboring town.

Long story short, he ended up missing eight days of school (which we cleared with his teacher before we even decided to transfer him or not). And now we are all paying for it. He is one of those gifted but unmotivated students and I discovered this morning the make up work he told me was done, was only partially completed. Makes me crazy but it was our fault (and blame my DH since I worked this weekend) for not following up on it before school this morning.

Bottom line, I've decided he cannot miss school any more. We've pulled him out for Disney Vacations in Kindergarten, 3 & 4 grade (some of those for three days, some for an entire week), but I doubt we will be doing it again unless he can up his act.

That does severely limit when we can travel though since I still have my younger son on a year round schedule. They basically have three weeks off in July (one week I have an annual convention I go to here in town so that leaves two weeks) and 10 days at Christmas plus an occasional long weekend when they are both out of school at the same time.

I guess I am not really adding to this discussion (other than the 14 weeks off of school is a myth for a lot of families) but more just venting about how we likely won't be able to do Disney vacations again until I can get both of my kids back on the same school schedule.

 

[TwinPrincessMermaids]

There are many types of schools that allow travel at the family's convenience, so people who want that flexibility should chose one of those types of schools - home school, expeditionary learning, year round, virtual school, sports academies.

I've been to China and I've been to the China pavilion at Epcot. They aren't the same so don't try to justify a vacation to WDW as a great learning experience. Of course family trips can be memorable, but can't that happen during the school breaks, on Saturdays, or by not breaking school rules on attendance? I learn stuff by watching tv all the time, but I don't think my kids should miss school to stay home and watch tv.

If it is important to your family to have flexibility to travel, chose a school that is flexible or home school. There are options.

Nancy

Simple answer, not in our case. As mentioned, Dad was going to Orlando for business shows. They didn't always coincide with summer vacation. Although I will add, I remember at least once or twice going when school was out during the summer.

Either way, as the parent, it was his right to decide for his own kids. He didn't agree with what was always taught, either, or school activities (clearly as stated above). When we were homeschooled 6th grade on, I think we all breathed a sigh of relief! (We did go to vocational school in high school for 3 years and held jobs too.)

I think its a cheap call to compare our family time and vacations to watching tv. I know the point you are trying to make, and its still lousy. Not all TV is educational, some is (and they actually sometimes WATCH TV in school too) but the idea of comparing dad taking us diving when we were almost 12 in the virgin islands to watching tv is just a bit ridiculous.

What it comes down to is that its the PARENT'S RIGHT TO DECIDE. No one elses. Not even the teachers'. And frankly its no one's business, either.

Harumph.

 

[fredgirls]

There are many types of schools that allow travel at the family's convenience, so people who want that flexibility should chose one of those types of schools - home school, expeditionary learning, year round, virtual school, sports academies.

I've been to China and I've been to the China pavilion at Epcot. They aren't the same so don't try to justify a vacation to WDW as a great learning experience. Of course family trips can be memorable, but can't that happen during the school breaks, on Saturdays, or by not breaking school rules on attendance? I learn stuff by watching tv all the time, but I don't think my kids should miss school to stay home and watch tv.

If it is important to your family to have flexibility to travel, chose a school that is flexible or home school. There are options.

Nancy

You don't have to go to a special school to have a flexible education system. I am assuming those with tight restrictions are referring to some US states? There are lots of the rest of us, who don't live in the US, that are fortunate to have reasonable school policies for regular school.

 

[jennyjinx3]

You don't have to go to a special school to have a flexible education system. I am assuming those with tight restrictions are referring to some US states? There are lots of the rest of us, who don't live in the US, that are fortunate to have reasonable school policies for regular school.

 

[fredgirls]

Simple answer, not in our case. As mentioned, Dad was going to Orlando for business shows. They didn't always coincide with summer vacation. Although I will add, I remember at least once or twice going when school was out during the summer.

Either way, as the parent, it was his right to decide for his own kids. He didn't agree with what was always taught, either, or school activities (clearly as stated above). When we were homeschooled 6th grade on, I think we all breathed a sigh of relief! (We did go to vocational school in high school for 3 years and held jobs too.)

I think its a cheap call to compare our family time and vacations to watching tv. I know the point you are trying to make, and its still lousy. Not all TV is educational, some is (and they actually sometimes WATCH TV in school too) but the idea of comparing dad taking us diving when we were almost 12 in the virgin islands to watching tv is just a bit ridiculous.

What it comes down to is that its the PARENT'S RIGHT TO DECIDE. No one elses. Not even the teachers'. And frankly its no one's business, either.

Harumph.

This raises an interesting point.
Saying kids can't miss any school for vacation, or any other reason bar sickness I assume, seems very totalitarian! Where is the parents right to decide?

Again, feel lucky.

 

[TheLanes]

Oh, you Canadians are so progressive with your socialized healthcare and flexible educational system... (jealous actually )

 

[fredgirls]

Oh, you Canadians are so progressive with your socialized healthcare and flexible educational system... (jealous actually )

Sorry.

Actually from the UK originally. They are starting to get a little stricter there. My sister-in-law had to sign something to take them out of school, but not illegal yet!

 

[PaceFamily]

I do know that last week, on the same day my family was riding inner tubes down the Martha Brea river in Jamaica, listening to our guide describe the history of the river and of the country, my daughter's class was back in Minnesota watching Bambi. So.... yeah. I feel pretty good about the real world learning opportunities my kids got on our cruise.

Wow. Sad state of educational system, huh. But guess I will save that rant (and flame out) for another day. . Lol. Thanks all for the lively discussion. It is always interesting. We raise our children as best we can to do right with this world that we will leave them. I do not know if my way is better than anyone's else but we hope that we all get the results right in the end. Well balanced children that will live happy, productive lives.

Cheers!

 

[braysmommy]

Oh, you Canadians are so progressive with your socialized healthcare and flexible educational system... (jealous actually )

Agree My DS is in private school which is supportive of missing days for family trips. He is only in first grade but missed 2 weeks for the Panama Canal trip last year and will miss the last 2 weeks this May for our Transatlantic and Med cruises.

 

[natmom]

Agree My DS is in private school which is supportive of missing days for family trips. He is only in first grade but missed 2 weeks for the Panama Canal trip last year and will miss the last 2 weeks this May for our Transatlantic and Med cruises.

I live in Canada. I really do love living here

 

[MND]

Agree My DS is in private school which is supportive of missing days for family trips. He is only in first grade but missed 2 weeks for the Panama Canal trip last year and will miss the last 2 weeks this May for our Transatlantic and Med cruises.

IMHO, no one should be concerned about taking a 1st grader out of school for a trip. Good for you!

Mike

 

[deanimal]

I live in Canada. I really do love living here

Me too! Now if only DCL would base one of their ships up here it would be nearly perfect!

I agree that every family is different and in the end it is the parent's right to decide, but it's also the school's right to decide if they will accomodate. Every school is also different and you know the rules from the beginning. If there are negative consequences for absences you have to take that into account and decide if it's worth it. Don't say it's no fair for the school to "punish" your child for unexcused absences when it was your decision to go, not the school's and not the child's. It's the school's right to make rules for the school just as much as it's your right to make decisions for your family.