Zimbabwe

[bcla]

I'm so confused. Please tell me why it's racist to note that Mugabe and his administration ruined a perfectly viable country? And let's not even mention the human rights abuses.

It's just a pattern by the poster. And it's been mentioned that Rhodesia was prosperous country for a minority colonial population. Doesn't excuse the current mess they have, but it's like claiming that former slaves had it better when they were slaves.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

but it's like claiming that former slaves had it better when they were slaves.

No, no it isn't

 

[Colleen27]

I'm so confused. Please tell me why it's racist to note that Mugabe and his administration ruined a perfectly viable country? And let's not even mention the human rights abuses.

I think to ruin something, it has to have had value in the first place. And I think it is questionable to call a colonial state in which an occupying elite prospered at the expense of the native-born population a "perfectly viable" nation. Rhodesia was "viable" and "prosperous" because of the existence of an exploited racial underclass, not because the nation was well-governed. There's room to condemn both colonialism AND Mugabe's strong-arm rule.

Again to draw a parallel to slavery... I've heard the argument made that the Civil War "ruined" the prosperous South. And I see this conversation as very much the same. The parts of the South ruined by freeing the slaves were only prosperous because of the availability of slave labor. Tearing down something destructive, even if the rebuilding is difficult and time-consuming, isn't anything to mourn or regret.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

I think to ruin something, it has to have had value in the first place. And I think it is questionable to call a colonial state in which an occupying elite prospered at the expense of the native-born population a "perfectly viable" nation. Rhodesia was "viable" and "prosperous" because of the existence of an exploited racial underclass, not because the nation was well-governed. There's room to condemn both colonialism AND Mugabe's strong-arm rule.

Again to draw a parallel to slavery... I've heard the argument made that the Civil War "ruined" the prosperous South. And I see this conversation as very much the same. The parts of the South ruined by freeing the slaves were only prosperous because of the availability of slave labor. Tearing down something destructive, even if the rebuilding is difficult and time-consuming, isn't anything to mourn or regret.

The rather humorous thing is people keep citing the South but nobody mentions the fact that our country was founded on oppression. I guess since we all benefited from that nobody wants to mention it, go figure.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I've been at a hotel whose internet is out and in a town with spotty data---thanks to those of you who've responded---sorry I disapeared (and I probably will again---more travel, heading to dlp this weekend and who wants to talk about this stuff while at Diseny? Not me!).

Anyway---Paco, was it you who brought up Rhodesia? If so, I apologize for assuming you knew the history. Most people either know nothing about Zimbabwe's past or else they know Rhodeisia was under race based colonila rule. Quite honestly it never occurred to me that you would know it was once Rhodesia and feel you knew enough to comment on if it was prosperous or not, without knowing that only about 4% of the population was white and only those white folks were legally allowed to have a politcal voice, own property, etc----so the and "prosperity" would not be for the area as a whole at all. If that is the case, that you had very piecemeal knowledge, you made an honest mistake and I am sorry I thought poorly of you for it.

The rather humorous thing is people keep citing the South but nobody mentions the fact that our country was founded on oppression. I guess since we all benefited from that nobody wants to mention it, go figure.

I'm happy to talk about the atrocities European Invaders committed when taking over what is now the US and even related ongoing issues
It's not really all that related to this thread, but start a new thread and if I have time to be on the DIS then I'll participate.
Here, in this thread, people were not referring to some country that had been founded under colonial rule but changed the laws to better represent ALL citizens and how it was prosperous or perfectly viable at that later time. Throughout the entire period that the region was known as Rhodesia the vast majority of the citizens were denied a voice in governance, property, etc based on their race. Posters have been specifically referring to the area DURING A TIME when it was run by White Supremacists with heavy legal segregation as a good thing (prosperous, perfectly viable...).

 

[NHdisneylover]

I'm so confused. Please tell me why it's racist to note that Mugabe and his administration ruined a perfectly viable country? And let's not even mention the human rights abuses.

It's not at all racist to note that Mugabe has been horrible for the people of Zimababwe and his regime is far worse than the already bad situation which preceeded him.

It IS racist to consider a place in which invaders came in, took control then wrote race based laws putting all power and most wealth into the hands of themselves, a tiny minority of people, based solely on skin color a "perfectly viable country"

I find it tragic that the people of Zimbabwe finally fought out from under a racist colonial regime and then the man they electe to lead turned out to be corrupt and took hold of power and will not let go I fervently hope that the end result of the current situation will be a fair government for all

 

[NHdisneylover]

This is a nice article on what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/15/news/economy/zimbabwe-economy-robert-mugabe-history/index.html

This is scary in particular: "At the peak of the crisis, prices were doubling every 24 hours. Cato Institute economists estimate monthly inflation peaked at 7.9 billion percent in 2008."

I don't think ANYone is arguing that Mugabe is anything other than a brutal, horrific ruler--he seems to have started out ok, but the old saying about power corrupting sure seems to be the case in regards to him.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I am not racist, but neither do I subscribe to political correctness.

People getting their knickers in a twist when someone tells them Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas is a political correctness issue. Not looking fondly on societies in which only one race is legally allowed to do many things is a human decency issue

 

[marlynnp]

If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck...

 

[CPT Trips]

One needs a really large "nappy" to change the minds of the overt as well as the thinly veiled . . .

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

Need to figure a way to discuss something without attacking a person, regardless of what you think about him/her. Too many reported posts so closing this one down.