You wish you could report people renting rooms 10 months out?

[BruinEd03]

This debate always goes the same way. It's the same as the walking reservations debate, and they entangle themselves together frequently. It likely harms membership as a whole to allow the practice, but it's impossible/illegal/illogical to attempt to curtail it. Someone is going to ask how it harms membership, so I'll preempt you. Walking reservations and booking hard to get holiday reservations with the sole intention of resale puts stress on a system that it wasn't designed for. It's not an issue when a few people do it, but when it becomes as commonplace as it is right now, it breaks the system down. It's like putting your kid on your shoulder at fireworks time. It isn't against any rule, and if only a few people do it, only the few behind them will be affected. If everyone did it, it'd really suck for the short people. All I see is people arguing "it's allowed". That's never been a good excuse for anything.

Does it really break the system? If a time period is popular, the easy way to make it less popular is for DVC to raise the point totals. This benefits people who travel in other period of times as the people want the "popular" times will subsidize the less popular times. Repeat as needed when there's an imbalance. At high enough point totals, people who rent points won't find renters. People will then flock to the less popular times with less points. This reduces competition for the previously popular times. It also makes it less profitable for the owner renting out points as the person will have to commit more capital onto the gamble that the reservation will rent at that high of a price.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

This debate always goes the same way. It's the same as the walking reservations debate, and they entangle themselves together frequently. It likely harms membership as a whole to allow the practice, but it's impossible/illegal/illogical to attempt to curtail it. Someone is going to ask how it harms membership, so I'll preempt you. Walking reservations and booking hard to get holiday reservations with the sole intention of resale puts stress on a system that it wasn't designed for. It's not an issue when a few people do it, but when it becomes as commonplace as it is right now, it breaks the system down. It's like putting your kid on your shoulder at fireworks time. It isn't against any rule, and if only a few people do it, only the few behind them will be affected. If everyone did it, it'd really suck for the short people. All I see is people arguing "it's allowed". That's never been a good excuse for anything.

Arguing it’s allowed is akin to defending your rights…

Actually, in this case it is defending the owners contractual ringtone to rent points unrestricted …

I also question how you know what the system was designed for, or how much stress it can handle.

I argue that if this was a problem, Disney would step in and stop it, because ultimately Disney always wins.

Can you prove any of this harms the membership since we all have the same right to walk a reservation ?

Just because someone didn’t get what they wanted doesn’t mean the membership was harmed. Actually, it how the system was designed to work. Be first next time! Walk your reservation!!!

Disney knows about all of these practices.
They have not change them because it is not a big deal. It does not effect Disney.

Successful people now how you use the rules to their advantage to succeed.

Other scream foul….

Remember it pays to be a winner.

As other have stated, if the membership as a whole thinks this is a problem, the easiest way for Disney to solve it is to again adjust the point charts making that week more expensive..

They by making it harder for renters to profit as the rental price would be competing with a cash room.

Beware what you wish for .
Because in this case the cure will most likely be worst than the disease

 

[Sandisw]

Arguing it’s allowed is akin to defending your rights…

Actually, in this case it is defending the owners contractual ringtone to rent points unrestricted …

I also question how you know what the system was designed for, or how much stress it can handle.

I argue that if this was a problem, Disney would step in and stop it, because ultimately Disney always wins.

Can you prove any of this harms the membership since we all have the same right to walk a reservation ?

Just because someone didn’t get what they wanted doesn’t mean the membership was harmed. Actually, it how the system was designed to work. Be first next time! Walk your reservation!!!

Disney knows about all of these practices.
They have not change them because it is not a big deal. It does not effect Disney.

Successful people now how you use the rules to their advantage to succeed.

Other scream foul….

Remember it pays to be a winner.

As other have stated, if the membership as a whole thinks this is a problem, the easiest way for Disney to solve it is to again adjust the point charts making that week more expensive..

They by making it harder for renters to profit as the rental price would be competing with a cash room.

Beware what you wish for .
Because in this case the cure will most likely be worst than the disease

Or the institute the Special booking thing that can be put in place..which i think would be much worse.

 

[RoseGold]

This debate always goes the same way. It's the same as the walking reservations debate, and they entangle themselves together frequently. It likely harms membership as a whole to allow the practice, but it's impossible/illegal/illogical to attempt to curtail it.

I mean it's in the paperwork you signed up for.

I could say that I think DVC should charge a lot of things that I perceive as hurting the membership. They
should allow pets or shouldn't take Aulani points or whatever, but that isn't what we signed up for.

Walking DVC could "fix," it's just a rule implementing all the other rules. But renting points is not a bug, it's a feature. It's allowed in the foundational rules. I'd argue it would be dishonest to change the rules at this point, when we all bought knowing we could rent it out and people have been renting out points so long.

 

[lowlight]

Successful people now how you use the rules to their advantage to succeed.

Other scream foul….

Remember it pays to be a winner.

If ya ain’t first, your last. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Sorry I couldn’t respond earlier, but it’s senior citizen lunch day at the community center. I mean sure, I’m a 1%’er, and physically fit (still a competitive cyclist), but I’m over 55 and rules are rules, right? If they run out, they run out. I’m just as entitled to lunch as anyone else.

If those pensioners from the assisted living facility really wanted some food, they should have grabbed their walker or scooter earlier and beat me to it. Not my fault I have a car. Right?

 

[Robbie Cottam]

If ya ain’t first, your last. Thanks for the laugh.

Actually, the line is from a documentary on the Seals

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Sorry I couldn’t respond earlier, but it’s senior citizen lunch day at the community center. I mean sure, I’m a 1%’er, and physically fit (still a competitive cyclist), but I’m over 55 and rules are rules, right? If they run out, they run out. I’m just as entitled to lunch as anyone else.

If those pensioners from the assisted living facility really wanted some food, they should have grabbed their walker or scooter earlier and beat me to it. Not my fault I have a car. Right?

If those senior citizen live in a nursing home that can only provided food for 1/365 of their patients of any given day then you have better be first, otherwise Darwin is waiting for you.

However, you r analogy is not even close to on point…. As a nursing home provides service to its members every day.

Where DVC provides service, on a bases limited to the number points the member owns on a first come first service bases.

Now to continue you with your nursing home theme. Nursing homes have waiting list, you don’t just show up and expect a bed. Some people wait months or year….. once you are in you get full service but if there are sold out before you call there is much they can do for you.

Thanks for playing

 

[DonMacGregor]

If those senior citizen live in a nursing home that can only provided food for 1/365 of their patients of any given day then you have better be first, otherwise Darwin is waiting for you.

However, you r analogy is not even close to on point…. As a nursing home provides service to its members every day.

Where DVC provides service, on a bases limited to the number points the member owns on a first come first service bases.

Now to continue you with your nursing home theme. Nursing homes have waiting list, you don’t just show up and expect a bed. Some people wait months or year….. once you are in you get full service but if there are sold out before you call there is much they can do for you.

Thanks for playing

The point had nothing to do with retirement t homes, and everything to do with the idea that doing something because no one says you can’t doesn’t make it right or ethical. You were probably too busy winning to pick up on that.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

The point had nothing to do with retirement t homes, and everything to do with the idea that doing something because no one says you can’t doesn’t make it right or ethical. You were probably too busy winning to pick up on that.

Nope, I just dismissed it as invalid.

Ethics are subjective, some would say more like guidelines.

My first ethical responsibility is to myself and my family.

If I can make more money by being better at booking DVC than you good for me….

I know of no duty I own to you, or any other DVC member when it comes to booking.


If you think anyone owes you anything in this life or any other, you had better have it in writing.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

So I know walking and such is a topic as well as renting at times. I happened to see people renting Christmas bookings over the past few weeks.

Do you wish you could report them and if they rented their points annually they would start to get hit with fees or restrictions?

Not sure how I feel but think its interesting but I also have it easier as we dont travel during a specific time.

Report what? Renting is allowed. DVC is likely the largest "renter" just with points they still own.

 

[Chuck S]

Sorry I couldn’t respond earlier, but it’s senior citizen lunch day at the community center. I mean sure, I’m a 1%’er, and physically fit (still a competitive cyclist), but I’m over 55 and rules are rules, right? If they run out, they run out. I’m just as entitled to lunch as anyone else.

If those pensioners from the assisted living facility really wanted some food, they should have grabbed their walker or scooter earlier and beat me to it. Not my fault I have a car. Right

Comparing eating at a senior center to using your DVC is really a bad comparison. At least our senior center. Sure, I'm in my 60s, will be on Medicare later this year, and could eat there if I wanted. But it really is more of a clique type social group with all the "old money" movers and shakers of our community. The even have "date night dances" once a month. The food isn't great, and it isn't cheap, so I usually choose to dine elsewhere. And as you say, it is my choice to eat there or not, just like it is a DVC owner's choice how to reserve and use their points, as long as they follow the rules.

DVC reservations have always been first come, first served, except during the holiday lottery period in the early years. No matter what resort you owned at, you could add your name to the list, and if selected, you could reserve at 11 months without any home resort priority. At least that didn't last very long.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Clearly the concept of “just because there’s no rule against it, doesn’t make it right or ethical” is just too foreign for many to comprehend, regardless of the analogy. I could have said “grabbing all the candy from the bowl at Halloween” and it wound be the same principle.

That people want to dissect the analogy, rather than the underlying ethical principle speaks volumes. I’ll bow out now.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Comparing eating at a senior center to using your DVC is really a bad comparison. At least our senior center. Sure, I'm in my 60s, will be on Medicare later this year, and could eat there if I wanted. But it really is more of a clique type social group with all the "old money" movers and shakers of our community. The even have "date night dances" once a month. The food isn't great, and it isn't cheap, so I usually choose to dine elsewhere. And as you say, it is my choice to eat there or not, just like it is a DVC owner's choice how to reserve and use their points, as long as they follow the rules.

DVC reservations have always been first come, first served, except during the holiday lottery period in the early years. No matter what resort you owned at, you could add your name to the list, and if selected, you could reserve at 11 months without any home resort priority. At least that didn't last very lo

Clearly the concept of “just because there’s no rule against it, doesn’t make it right or ethical” is just too foreign for many to comprehend, regardless of the analogy. I could have said “grabbing all the candy from the bowl at Halloween” and it wound be the same principle.

That people want to dissect the analogy, rather than the underlying ethical principle speaks volumes. I’ll bow out now.

No, that fact that there is prohibition makes it right.

We don’t need an ethics lesson,
It is allowed.
It is expressly allowed.
Renting is personal use!
Owners can rent their point.


That is how a society of laws works.

I don’t need your permission to do it.

I question your ethical compass trying to impose you morals on others.

You’ll bow out now because you are wrong and you know it.

No other owner has to wait to use their points until you make up your mind.

 

[lowlight]

That people want to dissect the analogy, rather than the underlying ethical principle speaks volumes. I’ll bow out now.

Not understanding that something can be legal/within the rules and also detrimental to a group is a weird stance that I’m not sure how to respond to. At least say “yeah I know it’s bad and I don’t care”, I can respect that.

 

[DonMacGregor]

No, I bowed out because you’ll never move off the “if they don’t specifically tell me it’s, wrong, then it’s right”.

The rest of that word salad is just window dressing. People really do get fed up and walk away when reason fails them.

 

[lowlight]

We don’t need an ethics lesson,
It is allowed.
It is expressly allowed.
Renting is personal use!
Owners can rent their point.

I don’t think anyone is making the argument it isn’t allowed. Renting is good, it adds value to our contract and it’s a nice benefit for both sides. Renting and spec renting tons of prime booking reservations for profit is a hugely different scenario. Isn’t that the topic of the OP?

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Not understanding that something can be legal/within the rules and also detrimental to a group is a weird stance that I’m not sure how to respond to. At least say “yeah I know it’s bad and I don’t care”, I can respect that.

Only a tiny percentage think this is actually bad for the group.

This is more of the minority trying to shame the majority into compliance and forfeiting their rights.

Hopefully, you can also respect those stand up and define their rights.

 

[DonMacGregor]

The irony is I absolutely don’t care what anyone does with their points. Use them, don’t use them, rent them, don’t rent them. Lose them all. Walk that reservation for 6 months. Don’t care.

I commented on the principle that as long as someone doesn’t explicitly prohibit a specific behavior, then the behavior must be appropriate. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should. That’s a societal commentary.

 

[Carol_]

I mean it's in the paperwork you signed up for.

I could say that I think DVC should charge a lot of things that I perceive as hurting the membership. They
should allow pets or shouldn't take Aulani points or whatever, but that isn't what we signed up for.

Walking DVC could "fix," it's just a rule implementing all the other rules. But renting points is not a bug, it's a feature. It's allowed in the foundational rules. I'd argue it would be dishonest to change the rules at this point, when we all bought knowing we could rent it out and people have been renting out points so long.

Agree… and we’ve never sought to rent out points. We knew what we were buying. We use every last stinkin’ point every year (or we bank the few that remain.)