You wish you could report people renting rooms 10 months out?

Do you wish DVC would intake reports of rentals 10+ months out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 9.7%
  • No

    Votes: 77 49.7%
  • Do not care

    Votes: 63 40.6%

  • Total voters
    155
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sethschroeder

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
So I know walking and such is a topic as well as renting at times. I happened to see people renting Christmas bookings over the past few weeks.

Do you wish you could report them and if they rented their points annually they would start to get hit with fees or restrictions?

Not sure how I feel but think its interesting but I also have it easier as we dont travel during a specific time.
 
I alway try to rent points im not going to use as early as possible.
sometime before 11 months out.

im not sure what the issue is?
if an owner uses their points 11 months out, thats is how the system is designed to work.

what an owner does with those rooms once reserved is the points owner choice.

not sure what you would report, or to who.
but im happy to debate this with you.
 


I guess a question to ask is are you seeing a large number of Christmas week rentals for rooms that are actually hard to get if a member attempts to reserve at 11-months out for Christmas time, particulalrly: AKV value and club level studios and 2BRs, BWV standard and boardwalk view studios and 2BRs, BLT standard view studios and 2BRs, VGF studios (but not the Resort Studios), CCV studios, OKW GVs in the near Hospitality House booking category, and. If not, then it appears there would be no real issue to possibly raise, because other rooms at WDW resorts are usually available as long as you book at 11-months out, i.e., unless the reservations are for those rooms, any renters are likely not preventing other members from getting a desired room at 11-months.

The Public Offering Statement for each resort expressly provides that members can "lease" (rent) reservations in the definition of allowed "personal use." The reservation rule is strictly first come first served, and the POS warns that if you delay beyond the given start times for making a desired reservation, you may not get it. Charging fees for making a reservation is legally allowed only if the the POS expressly provides that fees may be charged. The DVC POS of each resort allows such charges only for trade-outs when a member uses points to reserve a non-DVC resort.

Thus, rentals are not prohibited and members cannot be charged for making any reservations at DVC resorts, and DVC cannot create any rule that would provide that such renting members cannot do a reservation right at 11-months to favor those not renting.

The POS prohibits a member from owning DVC for a "commercial purpose." Thus, the only remedy DVC has to possibly prevent a member from reserving to do rentals is to find a violation of that rule. But since renting is expressly allowed in the definition of personal use, members doing rentals even to sometimes make a profit, in and of itself, cannot possibly be a violation of the commercial purpose rule. That commercial purpose rule is designed to prevent members from being in the business of doing rentals, an interpretation supported by the POS's repeated mention of "commercial" units in the POS which are units used for the purpose of doing business, such as restaurants and stores. That is actually an interpretation DVC itself has previously shown it agrees with. In 2007, in response to a rental problem that developed because there were members using many thousands of points to reserve at 11-months out (and then offer for rent on the internet), many hard to get reservations at hard to get times, particularly, at the time, for the first two weeks of Dec and Christmas week, DVC issued a rule interpretation to all members which provided that, though a member could rent, if any member made more than 20 reservations per year, the member would be presumed to be violating the commercial purpose exception, and could not make more reservations in the year unless the member established the 20 rentals were all for personal use.
 
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They could clarify their definition of commercial use. I‘d be fine if they decided on something like at least 33% of the points every 3 years needs to be used by the owner (they need to be lead on a reservation). If not, then what are they doing with their contract? Highly doubt they’d do anything like this though since it would impact resale value and could make direct harder to sell.
 


They could clarify their definition of commercial use. I‘d be fine if they decided on something like at least 33% of the points every 3 years needs to be used by the owner (they need to be on a reservation). If not, then what are they doing with it? Highly doubt they’d do anything like this though since it would impact resale value and could make direct harder to sell.
Changing a contract after it has been sign and you have been paid is called ....... Fraud!

It would open Disney to HUGE law suits and liabilities.

Maybe you will see that in new resorts. Or maybe even in new contracts moving forward.

But for those points that have already been sold. NOT A CHANCE.


You don't know what people are going through, Maybe they have a sick parent and can't leave them. have lost a job and can't afford to go. You can't put arbitrary limits on someone else property.
 
You don't know what people are going through, Maybe they have a sick parent and can't leave them. have lost a job and can't afford to go. You can't put arbitrary limits on someone else property.
The contracts do say not for commercial use. The never officially defined what commercial is. At one point they sent the 20 rental warnings as a clear number but as far as the contract goes, it is not for commercial use. If people need to file taxes for rental income, does that make it commercial? Maybe not. If the contracts are being rented out more than half of the time, could that make it commercial rather than predominantly for personal use?

If they did clarify with something like 33% usage over 3 years, cushions could be built in for what you described. A warning could be issued the first event then reset. Maybe additionally they can allow 2 proxies to be named as interchangeable with the owner. If you or one of your proxies cannot use the contract over 6 years, how is this contract being used?

Doesn’t matter much anyway. I doubt they’d ever touch this unless issues around 11 month booking became so severe and common knowledge that sales suffered.
 
The contracts do say not for commercial use. The never officially defined what commercial is. At one point they sent the 20 rental warnings as a clear number but as far as the contract goes, it is not for commercial use. If people need to file taxes for rental income, does that make it commercial? Maybe not. If the contracts are being rented out more than half of the time, could that make it commercial rather than predominantly for personal use?

If they did clarify with something like 33% usage over 3 years, cushions could be built in for what you described. A warning could be issued the first event then reset. Maybe additionally they can allow 2 proxies to be named as interchangeable with the owner. If you or one of your proxies cannot use the contract over 6 years, how is this contract being used?

Doesn’t matter much anyway. I doubt they’d ever touch this unless issues around 11 month booking became so severe and common knowledge that sales suffered.
in 2007 Disney defined commercial as a store front or Restaurant, or more than 20 rentals in a calendar year.

Furthermore Disney has expressly said repeatedly and has published that member can rent their unused points.

If we a talking week long, 2 bedroom rentals at Christmas time, I going to assume we are talking 250 to 300 points. You are not going to see very many people making 20 of these reservation.

Get up earlier on the day the 11 month window opens, and book the room you want. That's what I do.
 
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And when that doesn’t work, walk. There is a point where it devalues the product.
Maybe yes, Maybe no,

Everyone has the same opportunity to book those rooms.
Disney is very clear it is a first come first serve model.

The resale points at RR have the warning the you may not be able to use these points if you wait to long to book.
 
None since they can not be established

How many rentals have be canceled or owners fined for renting? Also none, as they are perfectly fine per the POS and deed, and membership contracts.
 
The resale points at RR have the warning the you may not be able to use these points if you wait to long to book.
Most people aren’t really aware of that yet. It’s in the contract but in not common in actual usage… so far. The community isn’t grumbling about not being able to use their resale RIV points.

If the confirmed reservation market does not increase, I don’t think DVC will bother. It has been increasing year on year. Who knows if resale values declining will expand, shrink or stabilize this market though. The worst may already be here.
 
Honestly, I think it’s a non issue. One of the big benefits of DVC is the ability to use it for family and friends, and rent when one needs to do that.

There is simply no one definition change to renting” for commercial purposes” that owners will agree doesn’t violate the personal use definition.

I think the 20 reservations is a pretty good threshold. While we don’t have numbers, there is also a very good chance, at least IMO, that many members that rent are not even close to that number
 
Most people aren’t really aware of that yet. It’s in the contract but in not common in actual usage… so far. The community isn’t grumbling about not being able to use their resale RIV points.

If the confirmed reservation market does not increase, I don’t think DVC will bother. It has been increasing year on year. Who knows if resale values declining will expand, shrink or stabilize this market though. The worst may already be here.

It won’t take an owner of resale RIV points long to figure it out if they can’t use their points by waiting to long..

Still, it’s on them to understand the product they are buying. I own resale RIV points and I always use them first for trips I am confident that will happen.

But guess what? Things do and I am now in a GV at RIV on Tuesday night with just 4 of us because I had to cancel my January trip when my dad passed that had used banked resale RIV points…so we switched from the cabin at CCV.

Had it not been there, we would have tried to use for our March trip and if that had not been possible, I would have rented them for some random trip in the future before they expired, or worst case, lost the 56 points.
 
Being able to reliably rent your points if you can't/don't want to use them is one of the best aspects of DVC, IMO. I wouldn't change it.

Will it always be that way? Who knows but I wouldn't want Disney specifically restricting it. I'm fine with restricting it to 20+ per year or whatever it is, but not normal renting.
 
Most people aren’t really aware of that yet. It’s in the contract but in not common in actual usage… so far. The community isn’t grumbling about not being able to use their resale RIV points.

If the confirmed reservation market does not increase, I don’t think DVC will bother. It has been increasing year on year. Who knows if resale values declining will expand, shrink or stabilize this market though. The worst may already be here.
Why would they grumble? They know what they bought, or they should. Every resale site I've seen makes it clear on RIV purchases that they're restricted.

Site sponsor for example, on each listing page: "Points purchase via resale at the Riviera Resort can only be used for stays at the Riviera Resort or within the World Collection (Interval International exchanges)" Beyond that it's caveat emptor IMO.

It would be like me being mad I can't use my AKV resale points at RIV. Bummer, but I knew what I was buying.
 
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