Yikes! Worlds Passport Collection is switching from II to RCI!

[icydog]

UNLESS DVC takes to circumventing the reservation rules, this is not an issue. But it may be an issue for the 7 month window depending on how this goes down.

Not on your life. Now it's possible that DVC could have made enough demands that they couldn't match and they gave up it but they created the entire short stay exchange system to try to make DVC happy and have been running a separate website system with DVC's inventory listed. IMO, DVC made a big mistake. Partly for the reason we've discussed on these threads but more from the missed opportunity. This was the perfect time to ramp up the BVTC, re-affiliate with Hilton like in the early 90's as well as Marriott, Wyndham, Hyatt, Westin, Royals, Bluegreen and the like. That way members could make direct reservations with the other systems with far less competition than through II or RCI and a far better chance of success as well as a definite answer rather than a wait and see. Even then and in every system you could dream up, the top resorts during peak times will not be routinely available.

I agree Dean. I said that to my husband when I first heard the news. They, DVC, missed the boat as far as making a trading system between the top players. Can you imagine all the resorts systems you mentioned in one small exchange system? Now that would be fair and equitable.

What, by the way, is BVTC?

 

[Starr W.]

UNLESS DVC takes to circumventing the reservation rules, this is not an issue. But it may be an issue for the 7 month window depending on how this goes down.

Not on your life. Now it's possible that DVC could have made enough demands that they couldn't match and they gave up it but they created the entire short stay exchange system to try to make DVC happy and have been running a separate website system with DVC's inventory listed. IMO, DVC made a big mistake. Partly for the reason we've discussed on these threads but more from the missed opportunity. This was the perfect time to ramp up the BVTC, re-affiliate with Hilton like in the early 90's as well as Marriott, Wyndham, Hyatt, Westin, Royals, Bluegreen and the like. That way members could make direct reservations with the other systems with far less competition than through II or RCI and a far better chance of success as well as a definite answer rather than a wait and see. Even then and in every system you could dream up, the top resorts during peak times will not be routinely available.

That was my point Dean, DVC was probably demanding too much and II said well this is our line in the sand.

A big-brand mini system would be neat, but I'll probably be on Soc. Security by the time that would happen.

 

[bwvBound]

[/B]
What, by the way, is BVTC?

Buena Vista Trading Company - a Disney "internal" exchange company.

 

[bwvBound]

A big-brand mini system would be neat, but I'll probably be on Soc. Security by the time that would happen.

You don't consider Wyndham, Hilton or similar to be "big-brand mini systems"?

 

[dianeschlicht]

Before purchasing at Bonnet Creek we thought seriously about buying into DVC until a light went off in our heads...IF you truly just want to go to Disney World every year and not worry about vacationing outside Disney then DVC would be our choice.We then looked at what Wyndham offered across the board and found hands down the Wyndham Resorts offer far better accommodations within their own system than anything Disney would offer us "trying" to exchange outside.

Would I like the opportunity in the future to trade my points into RCI for a DVC stay? ONLY if the points transferred were significantly lower than points needed for a week at Bonnet Creek. For us Bonnet Creek provides FAR better rooms than any DVC resort has to offer and the Disney Magic is within the park gates and that works for us.

Within the Disney area, but NOT on-site and with none of the on-site perks. They NEED to have better rooms and accommodations to make up for that little shortfall. I do agree that if you aren't looking to vacation at Disney World at least once or multiple times a year, it makes little sense to own DVC.

 

[Starr W.]

You don't consider Wyndham, Hilton or similar to be "big-brand mini systems"?

Yes I do, but to have an exchange system which includes all the big name TS companies in it.

I'm trying to stay out of this fight, as some here seem to think that even if you have a "big brand" system that trades in RCI it isn't quite up to snuff.

I've been actually looking for a Wyndham package, and I own a fixed week with Bluegreen. So I guess I'm slumming

 

[bwvBound]

I'm trying to stay out of this fight, as some here seem to think that even if you have a "big brand" system that trades in RCI it isn't quite up to snuff.

Recommended reading: What Do You Care What Other People Think? by Richard Feynman. Both of his autobiographical works are quick and pleasant reads. (Certainly quicker reads than his lectures on Quantum Mechanics and Physics.)

 

[Brian Noble]

I've been actually looking for a Wyndham package, and I own a fixed week with Bluegreen. So I guess I'm slumming

Most "serious" timesharers I know take what's called the portfolio approach. A collection of different ownerships that allows one access to the widest variety of vacation options at the lowest possible cost.

Wyndham points work best for Wyndham-internal bookings. They are easy to use, availability is great for all but a very few peak periods at a very few resorts, and the purchase cost on the resale market can't be beat. The MFs are a little high (not Disney or Marriott high, but not as good as some competitors), and they are mediocre in external exchange---Wyndham controls all deposits, and they reserve the better inventory for internal bookings. This lowers trade power, but gives owners a better shot at getting high-value time for themselves, so its a good news/bad news story. But, they do provide excellent value if exchanging for overdeposited areas (like Orlando), and also can provide steep discounts for booking Wyndham weeks through RCI thanks to an internal resort preference that provides nice leverage.

Certainly quicker reads than his lectures on Quantum Mechanics and Physics.

His lectures on Computation are also excellent.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I think we're a little off topic here. Its not what timeshares are better (Wyndam, FF, Marriott, Hyatt etc.) The issue is what is RCI going to provide DVC members as available trades, and the quality of those trades? If DVC members have access to ALL of the top rated timeshares in RCI, well then lets see. The discussion has been that there are very few of them, where II provided MORE top rated resorts. This is where the devil is in the details. What has DVC negotiated for its members.

 

[Starr W.]

Most "serious" timesharers I know take what's called the portfolio approach. A collection of different ownerships that allows one access to the widest variety of vacation options at the lowest possible cost.

Wyndham points work best for Wyndham-internal bookings. They are easy to use, availability is great for all but a very few peak periods at a very few resorts, and the purchase cost on the resale market can't be beat. The MFs are a little high (not Disney or Marriott high, but not as good as some competitors), and they are mediocre in external exchange---Wyndham controls all deposits, and they reserve the better inventory for internal bookings. This lowers trade power, but gives owners a better shot at getting high-value time for themselves, so its a good news/bad news story. But, they do provide excellent value if exchanging for overdeposited areas (like Orlando), and also can provide steep discounts for booking Wyndham weeks through RCI thanks to an internal resort preference that provides nice leverage.


His lectures on Computation are also excellent.

I'm looking at Wyndham for their system, not depsoiting in RCI. It's a lot like DVC, I buy the points to use in the system. Only in a emergency would I deposit my DVC points with any exchange company.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm looking at Wyndham for their system, not depsoiting in RCI.

I think that's the right way to look at it, but there are some Wyndham destinations that are cheaper to book (and easy to get) via RCI deposits. The idea is that you can deposit a studio's worth of points, but book a 2BR or 3BR unit. Factoring in the exchange fee, the discount ranges from 30%-45%, and in some situations can be as high as 70%. I've done this for Summer weeks at Smoky Mountains and Anaheim Dolphin's Cove, and Winter Break weeks at Orlando Cypress Palms.

 

[Starr W.]

I think that's the right way to look at it, but there are some Wyndham destinations that are cheaper to book (and easy to get) via RCI deposits. The idea is that you can deposit a studio's worth of points, but book a 2BR or 3BR unit. Factoring in the exchange fee, the discount ranges from 30%-45%, and in some situations can be as high as 70%. I've done this for Summer weeks at Smoky Mountains and Anaheim Dolphin's Cove, and Winter Break weeks at Orlando Cypress Palms.

Thanks Brian, I'm copying this over to my "Wyndham" file I'm keeping. It has those little nuggets of knowledge I've picked up from TUG and the Wyndham board.

Thanks from a somewhat neighbor(I'm just down U23 from you in Perrysburg, OH).

 

[tjkraz]

Within the Disney area, but NOT on-site and with none of the on-site perks. They NEED to have better rooms and accommodations to make up for that little shortfall. I do agree that if you aren't looking to vacation at Disney World at least once or multiple times a year, it makes little sense to own DVC.

Bonnet Creek is about as on-site as you can get for a non-DVC resort. Geographically I believe it's closer to the MK than OKW, SSR, AKV, etc. Not exactly a long haul.

No, owners do not get the standard on-site perks. The most noteworthy would seem to be access to DME, Extra Magic Hours and perhaps hotel package delivery (does anyone even use that anymore?) To many those perks are of little or no value.

I don't know that Bonnet Creek NEEDED to have better accommodations. There are many more distant timeshares and hotels which do just fine. And many will happily turn their backs on DVC and the on-site perks for the benefits Bonnet Creek has to offer. You and I may not be among that group but they do exist.

 

[Mila78]

I'd just like to add that as a Marriott owner in II, I am VERY upset to hear that DVC is leaving II. One of things that was encouraging as a Marriott owner was the possibility of trading into a DVC property (I'm actually staying at my first one - BCV this May!). This is definitely a disappointment for II owners as well that DVC will be leaving.

 

[swilshire]

I hate to appear to be a snob but when it comes to my money then I am snobbish. I hate to pay big bucks to Disney only to have them offer me non-parity resorts in exchange. One of the things I don't like about RCI is the class of people I meet in their resorts. It takes a lot of money to own some of the II resorts, just as it does to own DVC, and I appreciate that. By allowing folks who only have a tiny fraction invested to use our resorts opens up a Pandora's Box of calamities. If someone buys a Wnydham Resort for .01 on eBay will they respect my property---probably not-- but that's indeed what they sell for. Also Wnydham is owned by Cendant the company that owns RCI. Since they are in bed together Wyndham folks stand to get more out of this deal than others. Wyndham notoriously does not protect their owners, therefore, after the sale their timeshares are often worthless. How will a company like RCI who owns a timeshare company that routinely devalues its worth be a good business partner for DVC??

Check some of the recent Marriott prices. Not too much more than a penny.

I belong to both II and RCI. I'd drop II in a heartbeat if my last resort would become dual-affiliated.

Sheila

 

[Dsnybob]

I believe that this change is mostly about Disney having access to the 3.5 million RCI members who, if they do not own in the Orlando area, exchange there at least once every few years to have a Disney vacation. I imagine DVC can make accomodations available to RCI members not only for direct trades, but for anything they have in inventory (i.e. developer points, point purchases for DCL and Adventures by Disney, etc.). Disney's main strategy the last few years is to get guests to stay on site in order to capture as many of thier vacation dollars at WDW (Magical Express, longer you stay, less you pay). There is nothing worse to Disney than an empty room because it represents a lost opportunity to make all the anciliary income from theme park tickets, foods, souveniers, etc. This appears to be an attempt to penetrate that segment of the market - timeshare owners who would almost always be offsite because the ecomical choice is to trade locally and commute to the parks. Given the current economic climate and the apparent concern that Disney has over 2009 occupancies, this decision at this time is not surprising.

 

[tjkraz]

I believe that this change is mostly about Disney having access to the 3.5 million RCI members who, if they do not own in the Orlando area, exchange there at least once every few years to have a Disney vacation. I imagine DVC can make accomodations available to RCI members not only for direct trades, but for anything they have in inventory (i.e. developer points, point purchases for DCL and Adventures by Disney, etc.). Disney's main strategy the last few years is to get guests to stay on site in order to capture as many of thier vacation dollars at WDW (Magical Express, longer you stay, less you pay). There is nothing worse to Disney than an empty room because it represents a lost opportunity to make all the anciliary income from theme park tickets, foods, souveniers, etc. This appears to be an attempt to penetrate that segment of the market - timeshare owners who would almost always be offsite because the ecomical choice is to trade locally and commute to the parks. Given the current economic climate and the apparent concern that Disney has over 2009 occupancies, this decision at this time is not surprising.

This isn't simply a gain of 3.5 million potential guests for Disney. Until now our trades have been facilitated by Interval International which has about 2 million members.

Both organizations can fill the role of selling-off excess inventory for DVC. From what I've read, RCI's prices tend to be better than II's when it comes to purchasing stays. But I wouldn't expect anything bargain-basement with RCI as that would simply undercut the cash rates Disney charges for its 25,000 on-site rooms. Disney simply cannot allow that to happen.

 

[mgriff75]

I don't know how this discussing digressed into a discussion about Wyndham. But sense I'm an Wyndham and DVC owner I will chime in. I own 500k Wyndham points, in two separate account, one has II access and then other has RCI access. I purchased the separate Wyndham II account becuase after purchasing a Wyndham RCI account I found out I couldn't get access to DVC. I have used Wyndham to exchange into DVC many times. I decided to purchase 25 points at OKW becuase it gave me access to the DVC perks. For me this portfolio works very well. I have stayed at all of the Wyndham properties in Orlando, and at a bunch of the DVC resorts.

In my opinion the Value of DVC is the location of the resorts and the disney ammenities. ME, DDP, EMH, and many of the DVC resorts have great onsite restaurants, etc. But if you compare the rooms at DVC to the rooms at Wyndham you will find the Wyndham rooms to be much nicer. If you compare the DVC rooms to Marriott Grande Vista, it gets even worse. Just sleep one night in a bed at Marriott Grande Vista and you will get my point.

The trading value of DVC thru either RCI or II, may reflect that people who don't love disney would rather stay at other resorts. That being said, I am a little worried that I won't have an easy time exchanging into DVC in 2009-2011. I think many people who own RCI resorts, who have never had access to DVC, will try it out. Making my chances of getting exchanges a lot harder. I may just have to buy more DVC points, or make a real sacrifice and stay in much nicer rooms.

Matthew

 

[Dean]

[/B]What, by the way, is BVTC?

Buena Vista Trading Company. It's a timeshare exchange system set up by DVC. Currently it only includes Club Cordial and Club Intrawest. Years ago it did including Shell, Hilton and VRI at one time or another I believe.

That was my point Dean, DVC was probably demanding too much and II said well this is our line in the sand.

A big-brand mini system would be neat, but I'll probably be on Soc. Security by the time that would happen.

The one thing RCI has to offer that II does not is RCI points. Unfortunately the resorts in that group tend not to be even the best RCI has to offer. But this is the only way currently that RCI has to offer shorter stays which makes you wonder whether DVC is going to be affiliated with RCI weeks or RCI points or some hybrid of them with points for shorter stays and weeks for regular exchanges. I'd think it's time for some members to go buy that Marriott week for exchanging they've been thinking about.

I'm looking at Wyndham for their system, not depsoiting in RCI. It's a lot like DVC, I buy the points to use in the system. Only in a emergency would I deposit my DVC points with any exchange company.

Interesting that Bluegreen is somewhat the opposite. A number of good resorts with a few top notch but overall it's often cheaper to use BG to exchange than about anything else. I've traded 4 BG studios that cost a total of 12K points (about the same as one 2 BR) for a 2 BR Hilton, 3 BR OLCC, 1 & 2 BR Grand Mayan. I've also traded BG (not the cheap studios) to HI for a 1 BR Wyndham Waikiki and a 1 BR Westin Maui (one RCI and the other II). BG doesn't control what you deposit but they do control what you do not deposit. They want you to give RCI/II the better weeks and better units to keep their ratings up.

 

[Dean]

I'd like to dispell one myth. MANY timeshares do use the exchange system as a way to get fresh meat for sales opportunities. DVC has never done that. If one exchanges in you'll never even be asked to tour unless you make the first move such as stepping up to one of the Kiosks. MOST timeshares make the intro to the sales pitch as part of the check in by things like holding your parking passes hostage to pick up at the desk that schedules Tours. Many hound you all week long until you tour. DVC is so far the other way that their lack of action has actually cost the DVC system several off site DVC timeshares including the location that is now Marriott's Newport Coast. DVC does not do developer deposits either. Only roughly 3% of DVC members exchange out and they've never gotten up to the % it was the last year of the RCI affiliation which I'm thinking was around 3.4% if my memory serves me. So the idea that this is motivated by the opportunity to get fresh meat to sell to is simply wrong.