Yee Haw Bob Sexual Harrassment

[merdie]

Quite. And my point is that the internet / social media is not a court.

However without ever getting that far, someone's life could be irrevocably destroyed by such an accusation. And that is as wrong as the alleged act which we would all condemn if it were true and done deliberately.

Andre

This movement has come about because victims of sexual abuse/assault almost never see a day in court in the US. Stats say about 100 of 1000 cases of assault see the inside of a courtroom, and of those 40 will actually be convicted and even less will serve any time.

Sexual assault is reported to the police nearly 60% of the time! They do nothing, seriously. This is exactly why we need this movement, because sexual assault needs to be taken seriously.

We've tried the whole let the police handle it thing for decades and it doesn't work. Nothing happens which is why now we've had enough. It's time to stand up and report and if that means taking it to the Internet and letting the world judge, so be it.

 

[merdie]

Here in the UK, a Member of the Welsh Government was the subject of similar accusations very recently. He was almost immediately fired without any court or other proceedings. Sadly, a few days later (last week) he took his own life with no further proof having been found as far as anyone knows. Here is the link in case anyone is interested:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161

Sadly, the whole justice system seems to have been replaced by a hashtag #metoo

The problem is the justice system in the US was never there for victims in the first place.

If it were, #metoo wouldn't be necessary.

 

[MJ6987]

The other problem is, now that it's been "publicised" that Disney is sending $500 for an accusation, you'd better believe that others will come forward wanting their slice of that action, it's difficult for Disney to disprove these allegations but when they have the volume of similar accusations, they will then have to assume there is some truth to it and take action.

N.B. I'm not saying that this particular accusation was of this nature (the check was apparently ripped up), but sadly others are not so scrupulous.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

The problem is the justice system in the US was never there for victims in the first place.

If it were, #metoo wouldn't be necessary.

Yep. So the reality here is that things ARE going to get played out in the court of public opinion. Which polarizes everyone and NOTHING gets done. Perfect system eh?

I would say that the general feeling around here is that there is no justice in the courts. This fuels the emotion and the desire for justice.

The reality is that "justice" is being served by the laws on the books.

Solution, change laws.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

The other problem is, now that it's been "publicised" that Disney is sending $500 for an accusation, you'd better believe that others will come forward wanting their slice of that action, it's difficult for Disney to disprove these allegations but when they have the volume of similar accusations, they will then have to assume there is some truth to it and take action.

N.B. I'm not saying that this particular accusation was of this nature (the check was apparently ripped up), but sadly others are not so scrupulous.

So true.

 

[andrewilley]

Sadly, the whole justice system seems to have been replaced by a hashtag #metoo

This is exactly my problem with this situation too. Proof is no longer required, just a decent sized Facebook reputation and a post mentioning "and my friend has a picture" will be more than enough I suspect, without needing to produce any actual evidence at all.

So whether this accusation has any merit or not will become immaterial, from a Disney P.R. point of view I fear it might be a done deal in perhaps a matter of days anyway. And that surely cannot be right in anyone's view?

Andre

 

[Allison]

Moving this to the Community Board.

Shouldn't it have been merged with the thread on the rumors and news board?

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

This is exactly my problem with this situation too. Proof is no longer required, just a decent sized Facebook following with a post mentioning "and my friend has a picture" will be more than enough I suspect, without needing to produce any actual evidence at all.

So whether this accusation has any merit or not will become immaterial, from a Disney P.R. point of view I fear it might be a done deal in perhaps a matter of days anyway.

Andre

The problem is that there is rarely proof. It's usually a case of he said/she said. More often than no the accuser wins, and gets off because of the lack of proof. That's why so many people don't come forward.

 

[merdie]

This is exactly my problem with this situation too. Proof is no longer required, just a decent sized Facebook reputation and a post mentioning "and my friend has a picture" will be more than enough I suspect, without needing to produce any actual evidence at all.

So whether this accusation has any merit or not will become immaterial, from a Disney P.R. point of view I fear it might be a done deal in perhaps a matter of days anyway. And that surely cannot be right in anyone's view?

Andre

Most of the time there isn't proof. I was assaulted (not raped) there's no proof that exists beyond my account of the assault. No witness, no proof, no nothing. I just live the rest of my life knowing this person is still out there probably continuing to victimize other women.

 

[andrewilley]

The problem is that there is rarely proof. It's usually a case of he said/she said. More often than no the accuser wins, and gets off because of the lack of proof. That's why so many people don't come forward.

However in this case Michelle says that there was photographic proof, and that Disney offered her a $500 payoff (which I would have taken as an utter insult if this turns out to truly be a case of assault rather than a misunderstanding). That should have been enough to take action, or at least take it to the press who would hopefully check into both sides of the situation before running the story.

However the fact that the legal system is not doing its job as well as could be hoped (which I think everyone agrees is a given!) is not a good enough reason to take the law into your own hands and incite a public mob who then become judge, jury and executioner. And this is what is currently happening, whatever the rights and wrongs of the original accusation it certainly falls far short of "innocent until proven guilty".

Andre

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

However in this case Michelle says that there was photographic proof, and that Disney offered her a $500 payoff (which I would have taken as an utter insult if this turns out to truly be a case of assault rather than a misunderstanding). That should have been enough to take action, or at least take it to the press who would hopefully check into both sides of the situation before running the story.

However the fact that the legal system is not doing its job as well as could be hoped (which I think everyone agrees is a given!) is not a good enough reason to take the law into your own hands and incite a public mob who then become judge, jury and executioner. And this is what is currently happening, whatever the rights and wrongs of the original accusation it certainly falls far short of "innocent until proven guilty".

Andre

"Public mob"?
Okay.

Agree to disagree.

 

[MJ6987]

To be fair to Bob, the type of "hands on / goofy" photo opportunities that people want him to do several times a night mean that it would be very easy for his hand to accidentally touch or hold the "wrong" body part occasionally (and a third party could also take a photo from a rear angle of that moment) - most people would just realise that's what had happened whereas a few might take exception to it or think it deliberate. Personally, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt ("innocent until proven guilty" if you like) at the moment.

 

[declansdad]

The floodgates are open now. I would like to see the court of opinion prosecute the crap of "them" since women and children get no justice in the court of law.

I would like to see anyone guilty prosecuted, including those who make fake accusations.

 

[declansdad]

Like Wego said... Why isn’t one person enough?

Once proven true, it is plenty.

 

[penn19]

Here in the UK, a Member of the Welsh Government was the subject of similar accusations very recently. He was almost immediately fired without any court or other proceedings. Sadly, a few days later (last week) he took his own life with no further proof having been found as far as anyone knows. Here is the link in case anyone is interested:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161

Sadly, the whole justice system seems to have been replaced by a hashtag #metoo

I remember when it was innocent until proven guilty. And you would have your day in court. Now it’s trial by Facebook.

 

[ronandannette]

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]

The problem is that there is rarely proof. It's usually a case of he said/she said. More often than no the accuser wins, and gets off because of the lack of proof. That's why so many people don't come forward.

So what exactly SHOULD happen in cases where there is no proof? Really, what should happen? Our legal systems simply do not provide for a "third way" where an accused is either guilty or innocent based on proof.

Recently, just shortly before #metoo emerged, a local campaign called #ibelieveyou was launched. www.ibelieveyou.info/
It was everywhere - billboards, posters, radio, tv and internet. The idea promoted was pretty self-explanatory: No matter what, every person reporting an incident of sexual assault is to be believed, and every accusation acted on as if it were true. Period - full stop. The organization recommended mandates for law enforcement which included "helpful" suggestions like not asking any questions and leaving the decision to pursue the perpatrator completely up to the victim.

While this thinking may be right-hearted, it is completely wrong-headed, and it won't actually solve any problem. I don't know what the answer is, I truly don't. Maybe some sort societal declaration to the miscreants who perpetrate these crimes along the lines of #I'lltell or #don'tyoudare or #doyouwantapunchintheface? How about we empower ourselves and one another to react in the moment? I know these are ridiculous suggestions but the current climate is becoming increasing more surreal...

 

[Hikergirl]

If she has the proof in photos she should have posted them along with her message.

 

[MrsDuck]

If she has the proof in photos she should have posted them along with her message.

Agreed. Would certainly clear up any disbelief and just add credence to her story.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

So what exactly SHOULD happen in cases where there is no proof? Really, what should happen? Our legal systems simply do not provide for a "third way" where an accused is either guilty or innocent based on proof.

Recently, just shortly before #metoo emerged, a local campaign called #ibelieveyou was launched. https://aasas.ca/initiatives/i-believe-you/
It was everywhere - billboards, posters, radio, tv and internet. The idea promoted was pretty self-explanatory: No matter what, every person reporting an incident of sexual assault is to be believed, and every accusation acted on as if it were true. Period - full stop. The organization recommended mandates for law enforcement which included "helpful" suggestions like not asking any questions and leaving the decision to pursue the perpatrator completely up to the victim.

While this thinking may be right-hearted, it is completely wrong-headed, and it won't actually solve any problem. I don't know what the answer is, I truly don't. Maybe some sort societal declaration to the miscreants who perpetrate these crimes along the lines of #I'lltell or #don'tyoudare or #doyouwantapunchintheface? How about we empower ourselves and one another to react in the moment? I know these are ridiculous suggestions but the current climate is becoming increasing more surreal...

I don't disagree with you, especially the bolded I don't have any answers either (I wish I did).

The whole point of my back and forth with the other poster was because I feel as though he is basically saying that because it's YeeHaw Bob, a beloved Disney cast-member, that the accusations must not be true and that the accuser is wrong for bringing attention to it. Maybe I was reading too much into it, maybe not. If she has proof and is pursuing the incident further then I'm sure it will be handled.

I'm not sure what the screen shot is about.

 

[ronandannette]

I don't disagree with you, especially the bolded I don't have any answers either (I wish I did).

The whole point of my back and forth with the other poster was because I feel as though he is basically saying that because it's YeeHaw Bob, a beloved Disney cast-member, that the accusations must not be true and that the accuser is wrong for bringing attention to it. Maybe I was reading too much into it, maybe not. If she has proof and is pursuing the incident further then I'm sure it will be handled.

All the MORE reason to get this current "thing" past the point where victims are just talking about it and to start doing something about it. I'm baffled, truly, by why the incident along with the evidence, wasn't reported to law-enforcement. I know (and think it's proper, actually) that it's pretty impossible to get a conviction on a victim's word alone. But where proof exists, throwing the book at it would at least be a tangible step in the right direction.