Yee Haw Bob Sexual Harrassment

[LSUmiss]

Of course, but again this attitude of "they're doing this for attention" is another way to discourage people from speaking out. I'm not saying "believe everything" far from it. But we got here because the person I quoted said "I don't want to believe it's true" so at what point are people convinced? The original facebook post did say the woman's friend submitted the picture and spoke to WDW officials about the incident. Later they cut her a check for $500 so clearly it was investigated somehow. I thin people are missing the point in that she was not only bothered that this happened but it just seemed brushed aside by the company. I don't know if she cares to "prove it" to people on the Internet as that just leads to more goalpost moving. At the end of the day, she put this out there, people can come to their own conclusions I suppose. But people should feel like they can speak out, bottom line.

Of course ppl should feel they can speak out. But that doesn’t mean that everyone who claims this has happened to them will automatically be believed.

 

[Roxyfire]

Of course ppl should feel they can speak out. But that doesn’t mean that everyone who claims this has happened to them will automatically be believed.

Of course, people have to balance open mind with critical thought.

 

[LSUmiss]

Of course, people have to balance open mind with critical thought.

I absolutely agree.

 

[Kaytie]

Couple of minor issues. First, the reported occurrence is neither sexual harassment (very specific definition regarding in the workplace) as indicated in the thread title, nor sexual abuse as stated in the alleged victim's report. It's sexual assault.

Second, her timeline is a bit questionable. The incident could not have happened about six years ago in 2013. The math doesn't work.

I don't believe or disbelieve - although Disney's payment makes disbelief difficult - without evidence.

 

[andrewilley]

So this is turning into a one-person driven internet witch hunt now? Surely the police would be a much more appropriate course of action rather than an internet viral smear campaign based on one person's post which could utterly destroy another person's career and life without any conclusive evidence?

I'm not saying anything against Michelle's experience (and I do completely respect her right to post her version of events) but personally I would want to see something more balanced and conclusive before I would vilify someone else based on relatively limited information, no matter who it was from and how much I respect their veracity (and I have known both Mike and Michelle for many years online, and have nothing but good reports either of them - but then the exact same goes for Bob Jackson).

This is a life-destroying campaign she is encouraging, and on the "mud sticks" principle there's no going back, the damage would be done. Please just consider that before acting on one person's words rather than anything more concrete.

Andre

 

[andrewilley]

but in this case Disney was provided a picture.

So were are told. However Disney (who are incredibly sensitive to anything that could damage their reputation) thought it was not conclusive enough to act upon. Also the poster did not take this 'evidence' anywhere else (such as to the police) - in fact she says she has never even see it herself - so that puts enough doubt into my mind that I would not want to publicly vilify someone based on a Facebook post.

Of course it's her right to not want to post any evidence publicly, and to just rely on her words, but to then encourage a viral and letter-writing campaign without doing so is a very worrying process.

Needless to say Bob has already said that there's nothing at all in it by the way, but to be balanced that is also just one person's statement. Who is to say which one is right without due consideration and proper process? Innocent until proven Guilty should apply before libelously spreading such allegations as truth.

Thanks to the mods here for allowing this discussion to run, but please ensure that it remains balanced and evidence-based. While this is a very serious allegation, it really needs more than one person's view before destroying someone's career and life.

Andre

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Unliked person sexually harasses another person:
“So disgusting! I cant believe that poor woman/man had that happen! They should be fired immediately!”

Likeable person with large fan base:
“Welllllllll.... IDK..... I wouldn’t want to ruin their reputation because of one itty bitty accusation. I’m going to let it play out.”

ETA- And they never grab just ONE butt.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

The floodgates are open now. I would like to see the court of opinion prosecute the crap of "them" since women and children get no justice in the court of law.

 

[wgeo]

So were are told. However Disney (who are incredibly sensitive to anything that could damage their reputation) thought it was not conclusive enough to act upon. Also the poster did not take this 'evidence' anywhere else (such as to the police) - in fact she says she has never even see it herself - so that puts enough doubt into my mind that I would not want to publicly vilify someone based on a Facebook post.

Of course it's her right to not want to post any evidence publicly, and to just rely on her words, but to then encourage a viral and letter-writing campaign without doing so is a very worrying process.

Needless to say Bob has already said that there's nothing at all in it by the way, but to be balanced that is also just one person's statement. Who is to say which one is right without due consideration and proper process? Innocent until proven Guilty should apply before libelously spreading such allegations as truth.

Thanks to the mods here for allowing this discussion to run, but please ensure that it remains balanced and evidence-based. While this is a very serious allegation, it really needs more than one person's view before destroying someone's career and life.

Andre

Bolding mine. You do make some good points, and it is true that people in this country are innocent until proven guilty.

However, I disagree with the bolded line. If Random person A sexually assaults person B, person A needs to be held accountable. Even if person B was the one and only time that person A has ever sexually assaulted someone. So even though it would only ever be one person's "view", person A should still be held accountable. I dislike the implication that because we like Yeehaw Bob (or any other person accused of a wrong doing) that it is only true if multiple people come forward. This implies that Bob (or any other accused) is so important that it would take more than one person's word to counter Bob's word, as if his word carries more truth to it. Again - this is complicated in a he said-she said arguement - which person's words are the truth? That's why we have courts. But to say that you need more than one person's words - and also to blame that person for destorying someone's career and life is misplaced in my opinion. If the person B is maliciously trying to ruin person A's life that should come out in court, otherwise they shouldn't be blamed for the act that occured and the consequences that happen to person A as a result of it being made public.

 

[andrewilley]

ETA- And they never grab just ONE butt.

Very true. So if this is indeed anything genuinely malicious, after 20 years and tens (hundreds?) of thousands of extremely public daily photos taken at the River Roost, you would have thought more than one person back in 2013 would have noticed something and at the very least mentioned it?

However I am no more qualified to be judge, jury and executioner after reading a single social media post than you or anyone else is. So yes, I am waiting to see what happens next and if any genuine evidence emerges before I start making this viral and writing to the Disney CEO.

Andre

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Very true. So if this is indeed anything genuinely malicious, after 20 years and tens (hundreds?) of thousands of extremely public daily photos taken at the River Roost, you would have thought more than one person back in 2013 would have noticed something and at the very least mentioned it?

However I am no more qualified to be judge, jury and executioner after reading a single social media post than you or anyone else is. So yes, I am waiting to see what happens next before I start making this viral and writing to the Disney CEO.

Andre

Nope. I wouldn’t expect that. What’s happening now in Hollywood is a prime example of that NOT happening.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Like Wego said... Why isn’t one person enough?

 

[andrewilley]

Again - this is complicated in a he said-she said arguement - which person's words are the truth? That's why we have courts.

Quite. And my point is that the internet / social media is not a court.

However without ever getting that far, someone's life could be irrevocably destroyed by such an accusation. And that is as wrong as the alleged act which we would all condemn if it were true and done deliberately.

Andre

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Also... I never said he was guilty. But I’m not going to invalidate her accusation either just because of who she is accusing, or the fact that she is the only one(that we know of).

 

[andrewilley]

Like Wego said... Why isn’t one person enough?

I was quoting you, where you said:

And they never grab just ONE butt.

My point was that the internet is not a courtroom, and even if it was there has been no evidence provided, so it is not my place to judge. I'm not saying who is right or wrong here, I'm just pointing out that as this stage NO ONE should be creating a viral campaign proclaiming who is right or wrong based on what could (at this stage) just as easily be a genuine misunderstanding.

I'm sorry, but "I read it on Facebook" is nowhere near sufficient to bury someone yet - although that is indeed what could happen no matter who is right.

[Edit: I do have the greatest respect for Michelle by the way, I've known her online via things like the original WDW Today podcast for many years and have no reason to suspect she would post this maliciously. I do fear that this could be a misunderstanding from quickly setting up a group photo shot on a small stage though. That does appear to be what Disney's investigation concluded too, and it was not followed up any further than that at the time which is what really needs to be done now rather than creating a viral internet smear]

Andre

 

[tikkipoo]

It appears that she is quite serious at this point. She has posted the contacts for the WDW president as well as a contact for the Orlando Sentinel. With the latter, I assume there is a news story that will be coming out soon.

 

[trvlgirlmq]

Disney tried to pay her off. Sounds like hush money to me.

 

[andrewilley]

It appears that she is quite serious at this point. She has posted the contacts for the WDW president as well as a contact for the Orlando Sentinel. With the latter, I assume there is a news story that will be coming out soon.

She is indeed. What I can't get my head around though is why she has not done this herself directly, rather than rallying other people to send emails which basically say "someone on the internet told me...". First-party evidence (especially from someone with as good a reputation as Michelle) would be far more compelling than third-party comments.

Andre

 

[andrewilley]

Disney tried to pay her off. Sounds like hush money to me.

$500 is not a payoff for something like this, it would be an utter insult as anything other than what Disney described as a "goodwill gesture".

I hope she kept it as proof though, along with this alleged photo (although she does say she has never seen it) as that would go a long way should she decide to pursue this matter legally and allow both parties their day in a real court.

Andre

 

[MJ6987]

So this is turning into a one-person driven internet witch hunt now? Surely the police would be a much more appropriate course of action rather than an internet viral smear campaign based on one person's post which could utterly destroy another person's career and life without any conclusive evidence?

I'm not saying anything against Michelle's experience (and I do completely respect her right to post her version of events) but personally I would want to see something more balanced and conclusive before I would vilify someone else based on relatively limited information, no matter who it was from and how much I respect their veracity (and I have known both Mike and Michelle for many years online, and have nothing but good reports either of them - but then the exact same goes for Bob Jackson).

This is a life-destroying campaign she is encouraging, and on the "mud sticks" principle there's no going back, the damage would be done. Please just consider that before acting on one person's words rather than anything more concrete.

Andre

Here in the UK, a Member of the Welsh Government was the subject of similar accusations very recently. He was almost immediately fired without any court or other proceedings. Sadly, a few days later (last week) he took his own life with no further proof having been found as far as anyone knows. Here is the link in case anyone is interested:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161

Sadly, the whole justice system seems to have been replaced by a hashtag #metoo