WWYD - Work Issue

[MIGrandma]

Yes I would rather lose my job then clean a bathroom. No apologizies for that. And as a side note, he can't bad mouth me other employers..he can be sued. And I will tell other employers that I refused to clean a toilet..I don't think they wont hire me...especially since I won't take a job that requiers that. The same way I won't take a job that requires me to work after midnite, or sleep with the boss, or anythign else "I" find unacceptable.

I guess it is a good thing I live in Jersey and not Michigan.

Your current boss telling a prospective boss that you refused to do your share of cleaning is not "badmouthing" you. It's simply telling the truth. Giving them the actual reason you were fired, for refusing to clean the bathrooms, insubordination, doing your fair share when everyone else is doing it but you. But as another poster pointed out he probably can't say that, but in saying you are ineligible for re-hiring that does let them know you were fired.

 

[kamik86]

Your current boss telling a prospective boss that you refused to do your share of cleaning is not "badmouthing" you. It's simply telling the truth. Giving them the actual reason you were fired, for refusing to clean the bathrooms, insubordination, doing your fair share when everyone else is doing it but you. But as another poster pointed out he probably can't say that, but in saying you are ineligible for re-hiring that does let them know you were fired.

Not to mention that you also won't know what your boss said exactly. Or even that they called your boss. If the place calls your boss for a reference and he says something really illegal the only way you find out is if your new place tells you or if someone from the old place hears him. You just wouldn't be hired and wouldn't know why.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

The harsh reality - past employers can say whatever they want about past employees as long as they tell the truth. They can discuss your bad breath if they want. Most large corporations stay away from this practice to avoid the possibility that a poorly trained manager might get himself/herself in trouble, but small companies do it all the time. I have had owners of small companies share all kinds of stuff with me.

 

[ols386]

How badly do you need the job? If you're willing to be unemployed more than you're willing to clean, then by all means make a stink about it and take the consequences. If not, then suck it up and do the tasks outlined to you by your boss.

I can guarantee that if your situation was happening in Michigan, there'd be at least 100 people (or more) who would be willing to start tomorrow and would clean the coffee area or the bathrooms just so they'd be employed.

OMGosh. That is so true. Right now people in Michigan who are unemployed, would be willing to do just about any job.

To the OP -- I think I'd just go ahead and do it. Especially if everyone else is taking their turn.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I do work, I do what I was hired to do. I am the first one at the office every morning...boss is always there late, we are supposed to open at 10 AM, I am there before waiting for them to open the doors. I answer the phones, process orders, shred, vacuum when needed and dust (when time allows) and I do all the duties I was told I would have to do and I do it well.

CLeaning bathrooms and janitorial was never part of the job description. If it was, I would have never taken the job. I wanted an office enviornment and looked for that type of job.

That is fine. You asked "WWYD" and I answered your question. If you don't want to do the extra jobs that is fine too.

Cleaning bathrooms and a coffee bar is not a deal breaker for me. I just don't see it as a big deal. If you do then that would making working there unpleasant and not worth it as a part time job.

 

[disykat]

OP, I am the lone one on your side.

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Actually, now that the OP has said she has to clean the bathrooms - something that was not clear in the first post - I'll take her side too. I think most of us thought she was refusing to clean a coffee area. I understand that she asked prior to hire about bathrooms, but nothing about coffee.

Is it fair to me, who never ever uses the coffee area to have to clean because they can't clean up after themselves?

Sorry - I think it's reasonable. Life isn't always fair. The coffee is fair game - you didn't specify in your interview that you were unwilling to clean coffee, only toilets. I understand your aversion to toilets, but would personally not draw the line at coffee. I find job hunting much more unpleasant than wiping up coffee. With my luck, the only job I'd find after taking such a stand would be in a coffee shop.

 

[LilyWDW]

Welcome to the real world.

NO matter what was said in your interview, job responsibilities can change over time. At the time of your interview it was true that this wasn't a part of your job. However, most jobs have a "additional responsibilities as needed" wording. This means your boss can ask you to do something reasonable in addition to the rest of your job description.

Don't like it? Quit or risk being fired. My guess is your boss will fight the unemployment claim and will win, since you were fired to refusing to do your job as assigned. Being fired with cause doesn't look to good to the unemployment office OR your next job.

No, he can't tell a prospective employer officially why you were fired. But he can tell them you are not eligible for rehire. That is code for "fired." And a fired employee that didn't make it to a year of employment is usually not looked at very well by new employers.

It's a lovely little phrase isn't it? I have asked it and been asked it. Best way to know what really happened at their last jobs (and if they lied on their application).

 

[morgan98]

OP, if you aren't comfortable with the cleaning duties, I think the best thing to do is bring it up to your boss honestly and directly. All you would need to do is nicely remind him that you brought up cleaning duties during the interview and you were assured you did not have to clean. See what he says.

Jobs duties can and do change all the time, however. I also think that it is vary fair that the boss and his wife are part of the chore rotation as well.

I think one of the more confusing things that you post is that you are implying that at under $10/hour you don't get paid enough to do janitorial duties. I am wondering what hourly rate you think would warrant doing these tasks? In general, the people cleaning the breakrooms/toilets, etc. are not the more highly compesated people in the company.

 

[Frantasmic]

A compromise is in order, I think.

I agree with you, in theory. I think you should approach the situation from this angle: you only work part-time, so you shouldn't have to share in the full-time cleaning tasks.

Request a meeting with your boss. Remind him that you specifically asked about cleaning responsibilities when you interviewed for the job. Then, remind him of his answer specifically relating to your job duties. Ask if that is still the case and discuss if it is not. Then, offer some sort of compromise like you will do all vacuuming or sweeping as well as take at the trash at your end of shift.

If you are wanting to avoid ALL cleaning type duties, then you should be prepared to be fired. However, if you approach the situation with a gentle reminder that you took the job with the understanding that you would not have these duties; however, you understand that everyone is being asked to help out, then explain what you would do to be a team player. That is about the best course of action you can provide.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

Wow. Do you really think this is fair to your co-workers? If everyone is being asked (told, really, since the boss can make all the decisions he/she wants to) to take their turn at cleaning the bathrooms and coffee area and you "refuse" to do it? Why should you get special treatment?

I just really don't understand the outright refusal to clean bathrooms. You seriously would rather lose the job than take your fair turn in cleaning? Wow.

Maybe she refuses because cleaning bathrooms was not part of her job description.

I can't believe all the people who think she is wrong. Why should she be required to clean toilets? She's not a cleaning lady. Let the owner or his wife clean the dirty toilets if they are too cheap to hire an office cleaning service.

OP-I have never, nor would I ever work in any office that asked me to do this. That's disgusting and I wouldn't do it. (I would, however, be willing to clean up the coffee area.)

If I were willing to clean toilets for a living, I would work as a cleaning lady. You would make double the money she makes now.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Yes I would rather lose my job then clean a bathroom. No apologizies for that. And as a side note, he can't bad mouth me other employers..he can be sued. And I will tell other employers that I refused to clean a toilet..I don't think they wont hire me...especially since I won't take a job that requiers that.
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Nope - courts have held that if a previous employer is telling truthful, factual information it is allowed.

I would definitely tell someone calling on a reference that an employee refused to do work. Why would I EVER want to pass on a BAD worker to another company??

Also - the OP keeps saying she does not want to do janitorial work/clean up? But she says she dusts and vacuums - so why is one demeaning/bad and the others are not?

 

[SaraJayne]

Maybe she refuses because cleaning bathrooms was not part of her job description.

I can't believe all the people who think she is wrong. Why should she be required to clean toilets? She's not a cleaning lady. Let the owner or his wife clean the dirty toilets if they are too cheap to hire an office cleaning service.

OP-I have never, nor would I ever work in any office that asked me to do this. That's disgusting and I wouldn't do it. (I would, however, be willing to clean up the coffee area.)

If I were willing to clean toilets for a living, I would work as a cleaning lady. You would make double the money she makes now.

As someone else pointed out, job descriptions change all the time.

If you chose not to do the job, quit or be fired.

 

[dis75ney]

My husband works in a similar environment to the OP (small office, maybe 8 employees total) and are all responsible for cleaning the bathroom and break area. This wasn't an issue in their old location where they shared the building with another company and they paid for the cleaning crew. One of the other employees complained about the added task after the move, to which the boss (who also cleans the bathroom and break area) replied, "You DO use the bathroom, don't you? Then you contribute to the mess and are therefore responsible for your part in cleaning it. If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out." The employee walked out and tried to claim unemployment, but lost his case because of the "Other duties as necessary" clause. And here's the kicker: The clause isn't even written into the job description (at least not my husband's). It was assumed by the labor board that this clause applies to ALL employees, whether or not it's written into the description itself.

This was in Wisconsin, so I'm not sure how the unemployment laws work in New Jersey, but just to warn the OP, whether or not it's in th job description, it could very well be assumed by any state labor board and the OP could be SOL on an unemployment claim should she be fired for her refusal to adapt to the change in job description...

 

[TwinsinCA]

Also - the OP keeps saying she does not want to do janitorial work/clean up? But she says she dusts and vacuums - so why is one demeaning/bad and the others are not?

You really see no difference between vacuuming and scrubbing out a public toilet?

I am amazed so many disagree with the OP. What if she had been hired for a job and specifically asked if there was any out of town travel. They assured her no, there isn't. Then suddenly it became part of the job. Would she still not be a "team player" or acting like a "princess" if she refused to travel? What if you are hired at a gym as a personal trainer but they said we need you to work in the daycare once a week? Most people have job "deal breakers". For the OP it is scrubbing toilets. For others it is travel. For others it might be working nights. I see nothing wrong with her standing her ground. She was NOT hired to be a maid.

 

[curious3069]

Is it fair to me, who never ever uses the coffee area to have to clean because they can't clean up after themselves?

Yes, I would rather lose my job then clean a bathroom and I have in the past as I explained in my OP. And that job I really needed. If you want an employee to clean toilets, tell them up front when they are being hired, don't lie or hide it. That isn't fair.

Then quit. Job descriptions change and there is no fair in business. Who cares what they told you in the interview, the job has changed. Everyone has to do it so either do it or quit. You can refuse, but you'll probably be fired for insubordination and unemployment probably won't happen. Not sure why you want people to tell you that you are right, if you won't do it, then quit.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

If I had an employee that thought they were "too good" to perform duties that everybody else pitches in for, they are more than welcome to find other employement.

Being a team player is a huge part of any work environment. Somebody who feels they are above the team, well, in this economy there are plenty of resumes of willing workers who have no problems pitching in, even if one of the tasks is not quite as pleasant as others.

The argument of "I didn't do it, so I won't clean it" is the argument of snowflake adolescents, not grown adults who get paid to work.

Are you serious? So, what you are saying is no mater what you are asked to do at a job you are required to do it? And if you don't you are a *snowflake?*

Well then, call me a snowball.

Maybe in other parts of the country cleaning toilets goes hand-in-hand with office duties, but not in any office/business I've ever worked at.

And it's great to know that my waitress may have been cleaning commodes before she served my table. I think I'll eat home from now on...

 

[usnuzuloose]

I was not quite sure I would reply, but I will be flamed and so be it. I have read some of her posts and one of them was she was in fear of her husband losing his job. But he took the job. So was your husband willing to take a job to provide for his family? Did he do what he needed to do?

You come here asking for peoples opionions, and when they are given and it is not what you want to hear you start yelling at people. Why? You want some one to tell you, you are right. If you are not worried about losing the job you would not be on here asking people there opionions. You will do what you want to do no matter what anyone says.

I could go on about a few of your other posts. But people can read for themselves. So the next time you need to find a place to use a restroom and it is not fit to use don't make a complaint because it may be that it is not someones job to do it. JO

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

You really see no difference between vacuuming and scrubbing out a public toilet?

I am amazed so many disagree with the OP. What if she had been hired for a job and specifically asked if there was any out of town travel. They assured her no, there isn't. Then suddenly it became part of the job. Would she still not be a "team player" or acting like a "princess" if she refused to travel? What if you are hired at a gym as a personal trainer but they said we need you to work in the daycare once a week? Most people have job "deal breakers". For the OP it is scrubbing toilets. For others it is travel. For others it might be working nights. I see nothing wrong with her standing her ground. She was NOT hired to be a maid.

Nope - no difference in vacuuming and scrubbing a toilet - still a "maid" to quote you.

But NOTHING is really changing - she is not asked to work different hours, travel overnight etc. Same hours, same job, just an occasional cleaning duty - she already HAS an occasional cleaning duty.

That is why most of us do not see it as a big deal.

 

[NHdisneylover]

You really see no difference between vacuuming and scrubbing out a public toilet?

I am amazed so many disagree with the OP. What if she had been hired for a job and specifically asked if there was any out of town travel. They assured her no, there isn't. Then suddenly it became part of the job. Would she still not be a "team player" or acting like a "princess" if she refused to travel? What if you are hired at a gym as a personal trainer but they said we need you to work in the daycare once a week? Most people have job "deal breakers". For the OP it is scrubbing toilets. For others it is travel. For others it might be working nights. I see nothing wrong with her standing her ground. She was NOT hired to be a maid.

Well I can tell you when we moved here DH was told he would be travelling 30-40% of the time. He traveled 40 weeks last year (he gets 6 weeks vacation so that is 40 out of 46 weeks (or 87% for the math challenged). Once we got here his services were more in demand by clients than anyone ever dreamed (that is good at least)--so the job duties changed. I can totally see that this could very validly be a deal breaker for many, but I think people also have to know when they refuse even something like this they should expect to be looking for other work. But I do think it is a different ballgame--scrubbing the toilet once in a while during the hours you were already working does not take time away from your family, from yourself, etc in the way that travel does.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Maybe she refuses because cleaning bathrooms was not part of her job description.

I can't believe all the people who think she is wrong. Why should she be required to clean toilets? She's not a cleaning lady. Let the owner or his wife clean the dirty toilets if they are too cheap to hire an office cleaning service.

OP-I have never, nor would I ever work in any office that asked me to do this. That's disgusting and I wouldn't do it. (I would, however, be willing to clean up the coffee area.)

If I were willing to clean toilets for a living, I would work as a cleaning lady. You would make double the money she makes now.

There are many who are waiting in line for a job as a cleaning lady here. Obviously this isn't a job that the OP needs to keep a roof over her head.

There are some hard limits I have when considering keeping a job. I'm in an administrative field just like the OP. But I won't kill anything (including animals, excepting bugs), sleep with the boss, or traumatize another human being. Domestic housework OTJ, even bathrooms, isn't one of my hard limits. If it were a choice between starving or cleaning a company bathroom, I'd clean the bathroom and be grateful it isn't a barn stall.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide to do, OP.