WWYD - someone being racist on the street

[GreatLakes]

If you are a normal, contributing member of society that just comes upon a short term problem like a job loss how do you have no friends or family willing to take you in? Even if you have no living family surely you have life long friends that can help.

I'm trying to think of a close friend that I'd let be homeless before they and their family could move in with me provided they aren't a danger or addict. When a friend of mine was going through a divorce he lived on my couch for 6 months.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Even so-called affordable housing allocations in new developments set the target rent at 30% of the median income, or $1250/mo. in this area. There is a large and growing share of the population who can't afford that much, which would take a single-earner household a wage of >$20/hr to qualify for

So so true.

A survey from the Tenants Union of the city that I primarily spoke about with the largest homelessness from a few weeks back shows from the about 700 respondents, 600 were tenants. Of those tenants these were the reportings (bolding mine):

• The 600 tenant respondents (85.4% of the total survey respondents) reported spending an average of $1030.41 on rent on a monthly basis.
• Tenant respondents reported spending an average of $296.08 on monthly utilities, and another $79.81 on other fees, like parking, pet fees, and cable.
• Total average monthly housing costs, including both rent and utilities, for tenant respondents was reported as $1406.30.
• The income required to “afford” that housing cost, using the federal and local standard of 30% monthly budget on housing expenses, would be $56,252 annually.
• Tenant respondents reported earning an average of $2500 in monthly wages, net of taxes, whereas surveyed homeowners reported earning $3400 a month.
• For our average survey respondent, that indicates over 56.2% of monthly wages going towards housing costs.

• The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) determines that paying more than 50% of a household’s income towards housing costs represents a severe cost burden.

To speak towards your affordable part in the survey:

• 97.3% of respondents, both tenants and homeowners, do not consider the City’s definition of $1,200 a month for a one-bedroom as truly affordable.
• Survey respondents reported that $671 for a one-bedroom would be truly affordable.

It's worse in my county in terms of affordable housing however there is a higher median income (although that does not help those who struggle of which quite a few do with rising costs of rent).

 

[bcla]

Even here, where vacancy and blight are major problems, the core of the issue is still not enough safe housing that people can afford. Even so-called affordable housing allocations in new developments set the target rent at 30% of the median income, or $1250/mo. in this area. There is a large and growing share of the population who can't afford that much, which would take a single-earner household a wage of >$20/hr to qualify for, and section 8 waiting lists are many years long if you can even get on. Homelessness is a priority category that can get you on the list when it it mostly closed, but what good does that do if it means you might get a unit in 2027 (assuming, of course, that your contact information remains valid that long and you can even be notified when you get to the top)?

That quote really nails it - one side trying to shame or criminalize the problem away and the other trying to make homelessness less unbearable but few resources going toward actually getting people housed.

I'm certainly not once who believes that criminalizing homelessness or panhandling is the solution. Or mental illness. I can't really determine whether or not this guy was mentally ill or just a guy down on his luck. But it seemed in his frustration he picked out one person to attack verbally based on race, even though it was basically everyone who was ignoring him.

The area in question (Uptown Oakland, California) is increasingly becoming more expensive even though it's not necessarily considered the safest neighborhood. I think apartments are probably going for about $3000-4000 a month for 1 or 2 bedrooms. The building (Uptown Station) that Shack Shack is in was slated to be converted to an office building for Uber but they decided to sell it; this was well before COVID. I imagine that's what a lot of people thought of certain neighborhoods in NYC that gentrified, but still had crime and inner city problems. Shake Shack doesn't pick poor neighborhoods. The other ones in the San Francisco Bay Area are all in higher end shopping malls like Marin Country Mart or Stanford Shopping Center. The only other one they have is Cow Hollow, which is actually a mixed business/residential neighborhood which is common there. They're going to build a new one at another mall, and frankly if I need my fix I'd probably go there rather than deal with the issues including parking and panhandling.

 

[VandVsmama]

I know I should put down my popcorn and just move along. In fact, the DIS has become a place that no longer brings much joy or fun. I believe in debating issues and having civil dialogue, but some of the comments pertaining to the situation make me so depressed (no mental health pun intended) that I just give up on some in society. But, our nastiness in the US at all levels has become accepted...wishing I could say more, but that would bring points

Why not? Mental illness is unbelievably real and prevalent. They need help. Most of America can get their happy pills while many cannot. Not all addicts or mentally ill just wake up with the desire to ruin their life and lose everything. They literally may not have control over some of their actions.

All panhandlers are not awful and without morals. While maybe the minority, there really are some doing only what they can at that moment. I don't expect it, but I don't assume they don't

If I'm out and about with my minor children, my first priority above everything else is to watch out for their safety and well being. So I don't really care if somebody is mentally ill, insane, or what...if they're acting like a crazy person or acting like a person who's being erratic, confrontational, etc., yelling at other people...then when my kids are around, I absolutely will avoid the mentally ill homeless person.

And I will not feel guilty about it at all. Ever.

Do I feel for what the mentally ill homeless deal with day in and day out? Yes. But my first priority is to my immediate family.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Why not? Mental illness is unbelievably real and prevalent. They need help. Most of America can get their happy pills while many cannot. Not all addicts or mentally ill just wake up with the desire to ruin their life and lose everything. They literally may not have control over some of their actions.

I said (and you left out when you quoted me): "Pure aggression and anger. I really don't care if you are mentally ill. Stop following me, stop touching me, stop screaming at me."

My concern is not for your mental illness once it reaches the point of harassing me or my family. It is not an excuse to follow me. touch me, or scream at me.

 

[Dakota731]

I just get so tired of people thinking throwing more money at the problem will help. Between 2018 and 2020, California spent $13 BILLION on homelessness, across nine state agencies through 41 programs. If $13 BILLION and 41 programs haven’t helped them why would spending more money solve the problem? According to a Stanford University study, 70% of the homeless problem in California is drug addiction related. So how about maybe doing something about the drugs flowing freely into our country on a daily basis?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I just get so tired of people thinking throwing more money at the problem will help. Between 2018 and 2020, California spent $13 BILLION on homelessness, across nine state agencies through 41 programs. If $13 BILLION and 41 programs haven’t helped them why would spending more money solve the problem? According to a Stanford University study, 70% of the homeless problem in California is drug addiction related. So how about maybe doing something about the drugs flowing freely into our country on a daily basis?

First you have to treat addiction like an actual issue.

Drugs flowing freely?

You can take someone's meth, put them in jail for the night, whatever, but if addiction is the problem you have to compassionately aim to work on the addiction part not simply remove what many consider the eye sore (the physical person presently on meth for example).

 

[kymom99]

First you have to treat addiction like an actual issue.

Drugs flowing freely?

You can take someone's meth, put them in jail for the night, whatever, but if addiction is the problem you have to compassionately aim to work on the addiction part not simply remove what many consider the eye sore (the physical person presently on meth for example).

In our area, a local doctor worked to try to establish a drug rehab facility for addicts. People raged against it. Left hate signs in his yard. Of course they didn’t want these places in their neighborhoods. You can’t say we need to provide help but have nowhere to put the resources.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In our area, a local doctor worked to try to establish a drug rehab facility for addicts. People raged against it. Left hate signs in his yard. Of course they didn’t want these places in their neighborhoods. You can’t say we need to provide help but have nowhere to put the resources.

Exactly.

And that sort of rhetoric would be in my county as well TBH. There's only one spot I can think where people wouldn't put up as much of a fight and that's the Downtown part of my city because that already has the Juvenile Detention Center, the County Jail and the County Courthouse. However they did tear down the library location there and put up high end apartments (because that's all that is ever built in my county) and many people wondered if there would be enough interest for people to live there. The apartments were done in order to "revitalize" and "modernize" the Downtown area much like many of the cities have done in my area so on second thought maybe NIMBY would end up being a big barrier.

 

[kymom99]

Exactly.

And that sort of rhetoric would be in my county as well TBH. There's only one spot I can think where people wouldn't put up as much of a fight and that's the Downtown part of my city because that already has the Juvenile Detention Center, the County Jail and the County Courthouse. However they did tear down the library location there and put up high end apartments (because that's all that is ever built in my county) and many people wondered if there would be enough interest for people to live there. The apartments were done in order to "revitalize" and "modernize" the Downtown area much like many of the cities have done in my area so on second thought maybe NIMBY would end up being a big barrier.

In our county, the more urban area is being gentrified and running people out who lived in affordable housing previously. Unfortunately it’s like that all over the country. The people who have section 8 housing don’t dare try to move no matter how crappy the maintenance is in the properties. There’s nowhere to move to.

On a tangent, I read the book Nickel and Dimed. It had me in tears. People just don’t understand.

 

[Colleen27]

In our area, a local doctor worked to try to establish a drug rehab facility for addicts. People raged against it. Left hate signs in his yard. Of course they didn’t want these places in their neighborhoods. You can’t say we need to provide help but have nowhere to put the resources.

We had a similar situation near me. A non-profit rehab organization tried to buy a vacant, twice-failed hotel/resort in the area to turn into an inpatient facility. People got up in arms about it and ultimately the township denied the zoning change or business permit or something and shut the effort down for good, all because no one wants a rehab in their backyard... even though drugs are absolutely rampant in that community, overdoses back in the woods at the state park happen regularly, and both meth and fentanyl are everywhere.

Ironically, the property, which is still vacant and listed for sale, has become a place for squatters and addicts to hang out.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In our county, the more urban area is being gentrified and running people out who lived in affordable housing previously. Unfortunately it’s like that all over the country. The people who have section 8 housing don’t dare try to move no matter how crappy the maintenance is in the properties. There’s nowhere to move to.

On a tangent, I read the book Nickel and Dimed. It had me in tears. People just don’t understand.

Same gentrification is happening/has been happening in the main Downtown of my metro. Census data also supports this. More whites thanin the past moving into that area and minorities moving out into suburbs in any place more affordable. Same revitalized and modernized happened in the main Downtown. Not all of that was bad, but in terms of housing the condos and apartments are just not affordable at all and it pushed people out (of all races and ethnicities but hurt the minorities the most)

 

[momz]

It was kind of strange because I've seen all sorts of behavior before, but I really haven't seen anything like what I saw tonight.

My kid is enjoying Shake Shack now, and they have a BOGO offer on a ShackBurger until tomorrow. Our closest location is in Oakland in the rapidly gentrifying Uptown area, but it's still Oakland and can be rough around the edges.

There's this guy who seems to be homeless and in a wheelchair looking for handouts right in front of the Shake Shack entrance on the sidewalk. Kind of scruffy with a white beard. As people are going in he's asking for people to bring him something to eat. As people are exiting the door he's asking where the food is that he asked for. Most are ignoring him as is typical. Most panhandlers are used to it.

We're waiting a while since they're really busy with all sorts of orders - especially from food delivery services, so it's taking a while. We're enjoying it and it's a fun, lively atmosphere. I think some LGBT pride event finished as there seemed to be a few drag queens grabbing dinner and everyone is getting along fabulously. We're enjoying our meal but it's time to go home.

As we exit, he's asking various people exiting "Where's my cheeseburger?" But then he focuses on one guy who looks to be of east Asian ancestry and then asks him. When he walks away, he yells at him "Go back to China!" I saw the guy he confronted inside and I'll just say I don't think he was born in China and most definitely was not someone who didn't belong there. But I don't really care how hungry this homeless guy is, and I yell at him "What the *$*# is your problem?" I'm not usually like that in public, but made an exception for this lowlife. He's about to confront me then but I can just walk away faster than he can approach me in his chair. I'm not usually that confrontational, but this idiot just drove me into responding.

It did occur to me that maybe he has a weapon, perhaps just a knife. But the thing is that that I've been to Oakland many times and have never, ever seen anything like this. People tend to mind their own business, or otherwise just get along regardless of background. I wasn't sure if this guy could be removed from the street by police for disturbing the peace or something. Not that Oakland Police has the time for it, but I've been in a neighboring city where I've seen police remove panhandlers who were blocking the street and/or being obnoxious to people who wouldn't give money. Over the years I've seen regular panhandlers who were exceedingly polite and would never yell at anyone who failed to to give a handout.

I have read this entire thread and will throw in my two cents because that's about how much it is worth. But I would not have acted in the manner that you did. what was the evidence that the man you identified of Asian ancestry needed you to intervene? What good came from your action? I saw that somebody (not sure it was you or someone else) commented that your actions were to model to your kids how to interact when racist slurs are used. I completely disagree. Your reply was, "What the *$*# is your problem?" Hmmm, is that appropriate? Do you think that yelling these words will cause the panhandler to thank you for pointing out the error of their behavior and then they will go forward with a new found respect for Asian people? that's completely laughable. And lastly, why is cursing at a panhandler any better morally than what the panhandler said to the Asian man?

Your behavior could have easily escalated the situation. Your intervention was not requested. And now you are standing on your moral high horse wanting people on the dis to applaud your actions. I don't think your behavior was wise. Ignore the panhandler, just as the Asian man did. Give him a burger if you want, but lessons in moral behavior garnered through cursing is a waste of energy and could get you hurt.

Also, being overweight and in a wheel chair does not mean the panhandler wasn't fully capable of popping up out of that chair laying you flat.

 

[robinb]

I’m a city girl. In this situation I would have chalked it up to the homeless person being mentally ill. I would not have engaged him. If he felt emboldened enough to yell at someone, he could have felt emboldened enough to attack me.

 

[FQLover]

Um, we definitely disagree. Racist remarks are definitely worse than uttering a vulgarity (*$*#) which is not cursing, actually. A curse involves other things entirely. A vulgarity is just that and certainly cannot be placed on the same level, morally speaking, as racist behavior.

I would much rather my child (who is Asian by the way) sees me stand up to racist remarks, behaviors, etc. than worry if she hears me utter a four letter word, for crying out loud. We would unpack this together afterword, as well. So, yes, modeling how to push back (or stand up or speak out) against the raging racism in our country, via many different means obviously, is an important part of being a good parent--especially in families who are not operating within the privilege of being white.

So yeah, we disagree.

 

[momz]

How about if we change the situation and make it hypothetical. Throwing these questions out to be answered by the general "you", not the specific person of the original poster (but they may answer if they choose to, of course). So, the situation is....panhandler near the door, person of minority group enters with their child and the panhandler (who has been annoying but harmless) throws a racial slur, third person is entering behind and witnesses this exchange.

1. If you were the person who the racial slur was thrown at, would you snap back at the panhandler? Or, 2. if you were the person who was slurred, and you chose to ignore the jerk, how would you feel if a third person interjected and yelled at the panhandler on your behalf? And lastly, 3. if you were the third person who witnessed the jerk saying these words, what is another way you could react (meaning, not engaging the panhandler, but what else). Note, I'm putting "you" in the role of either the person who was disparaged or the third person witness, I am making the assumption that nobody here would be the one making the slur, but if you are I have a whole posse of fellow disboard members who will run you off). I'm interested to see the responses.

I agree that racism is a real problem, learning ways to address it without escalating the situation may help us all come together to set an example.

 

[mrodgers]

Um, we definitely disagree. Racist remarks are definitely worse than uttering a vulgarity (*$*#) which is not cursing, actually. A curse involves other things entirely. A vulgarity is just that and certainly cannot be placed on the same level, morally speaking, as racist behavior.

I would much rather my child (who is Asian by the way) sees me stand up to racist remarks, behaviors, etc. than worry if she hears me utter a four letter word, for crying out loud. We would unpack this together afterword, as well. So, yes, modeling how to push back (or stand up or speak out) against the raging racism in our country, via many different means obviously, is an important part of being a good parent--especially in families who are not operating within the privilege of being white.

So yeah, we disagree.

Definitely disagree because there was no racist outburst. As I've said, he yelled using different words, essentially, screw you butthead. That is all. It just happened to be an Asian person and the panhandler modified his words to take appearance into consideration, but was still just a comment of blowing someone off.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

......

Totally OT to the thread, but did you see my PM? If you don't have an answer, that's fine. Don't worry about it. I just wanted to make sure you got the message. I don't normally initiate PMs & may have done it wrong.

 

[GreatLakes]

1. If you were the person who the racial slur was thrown at, would you snap back at the panhandler?

Nope, I'd ignore it and go about my day.

Or, 2. if you were the person who was slurred, and you chose to ignore the jerk, how would you feel if a third person interjected and yelled at the panhandler on your behalf?

I'd think they were a little foolish to pick a battle that wasn't theirs but it would be none of my business.

And lastly, 3. if you were the third person who witnessed the jerk saying these words, what is another way you could react (meaning, not engaging the panhandler, but what else).

Inside the restaurant away from the panhandler I might say something like "that was uncalled for" if I met eyes with the person that was yelled at but that is about it. I am not going to get involved in any way with aggressive people unless it is self defense.

 

[Adelle Dazeem]

I just get so tired of people thinking throwing more money at the problem will help. Between 2018 and 2020, California spent $13 BILLION on homelessness, across nine state agencies through 41 programs. If $13 BILLION and 41 programs haven’t helped them why would spending more money solve the problem? According to a Stanford University study, 70% of the homeless problem in California is drug addiction related. So how about maybe doing something about the drugs flowing freely into our country on a daily basis?

Apple had a piece of property that became a large homeless camp in San Jose. Instead of just removing everyone from the property as is their right, the company put everyone in hotels and other temporary housing - spending millions on housing, rehab programs, job training programs, mental health programs, etc. After the program ended, NINE months later, only eight out of a few dozen people had "permanent" homes. Homeless advocates "slammed" for giving people housing and then taking it away. They just can't win.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/05...these-san-jose-residents-out-of-homelessness/