WWYD - someone being racist on the street

[Babs Johnson]

Of course not, not at all. But it IS the reality that those incidents are rare enough that they’re completely shocking and nothing that would cause the rest of us to start looking over our shoulders. Even when that perpetrator was at large, he was a one-man threat in a vast nation of 37 million. I doubt anybody felt like the next stranger they encountered had the potential to stab them to death (and for the record, he was not a stranger to his victims). It simply is not ingrained in our psyches that everyone we meet is potentially armed and dangerous - it just isn't that way.

That’s good. Unfortunately, in the US, especially in larger cities. like Oakland and my town Baltimore, you really need to be cautious and wary of those who appear to be homeless or unstable.

It sucks but that’s the way it is.

 

[Ursula J]

I would have done what you did! But I'm a Scorpio who grew up with parents who worked in mental health, so I'm cool with living dangerously. No one would be "wrong" to keep walking. But calling the police is entirely appropriate in this case. He's making others feel unsafe and disturbing the peace. No mental illness gives anyone the right to hurt others without accountability.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I wouldn't engaged over words...sticks and stones. Although I would've had a short conversation with my child about the incident.

 

[GreatLakes]

I don't engage with the homeless other than to say I don't carry cash. There is a lot of mental health issues and I just don't feel like getting involved. If my kid was with me and asked about it I'd explain the situation as best I could for a 5 year old to understand.

I'm not sure at this point anything yelled by mentally ill homeless people would phase me.

killed??

Yep, and you don't even need a weapon. This story is about using a train as a weapon but it could just as easily been in front of a bus. I just assume anyone yelling stuff on the street is capable of this and keep going but pay attention if I'm followed. I just want to exist without being bothered because I'm walking through a city.

 

[Colleen27]

I work in Washington D.C and find it very depressing to see all of the tents, lean-tos and huge piles of trash brought here by the homeless. There is seldom a corner that does not have someone begging on it with a sign pointing out why you should help them. The worst part is that quite often many of these folks hop on the metro and go home at the end of the night. They are not homeless, just professional beggars.

Yeah, unfortunately there are two separate problems involved... on one hand, homelessness is a huge and growing issue in more and more places as we continue to underfund residential treatment for the mentally ill and addicted and housing prices continue to soar out of reach of the working poor. On the other, professional beggars really do seem to be getting more and more common which is eroding what little sympathy/goodwill people had for those genuinely down on their luck. I doubt any of us here will live long enough to see a solution to either one.

In the OP's situation, I probably would have done the exact same thing because my mouth sometimes has a way of getting ahead of my brain when I'm outraged. Not saying it is the smart thing to do at all, but I've so rarely found homeless people to be confrontational that if I did stop to think twice rather than reacting it would be because I read the guy as a professional beggar and have had some unpleasant encounters with the more aggressive among that group.

 

[bcla]

Yeah, unfortunately there are two separate problems involved... on one hand, homelessness is a huge and growing issue in more and more places as we continue to underfund residential treatment for the mentally ill and addicted and housing prices continue to soar out of reach of the working poor. On the other, professional beggars really do seem to be getting more and more common which is eroding what little sympathy/goodwill people had for those genuinely down on their luck. I doubt any of us here will live long enough to see a solution to either one.

In the OP's situation, I probably would have done the exact same thing because my mouth sometimes has a way of getting ahead of my brain when I'm outraged. Not saying it is the smart thing to do at all, but I've so rarely found homeless people to be confrontational that if I did stop to think twice rather than reacting it would be because I read the guy as a professional beggar and have had some unpleasant encounters with the more aggressive among that group.

Well - when I've been around certain areas multiple times, I knew who the professional beggars were and even had a certain amount of respect for them. They knew it was their livelihood and that if they wanted to stay there in the long term, they had to at the very least be polite and non-confrontational. I suspected a few were mentally ill or drug addicts, but politeness went a long way.

Still - I'm thinking of some old cartoon short (that I can't locate) and watched on a few occasions when I was a kid during weekday afternoon cartoon programming blocks. It was about a blind anthropomorphic beggar who lived in a modest home. Only he wasn't blind, had more money than he was letting on, and had ways (like a room that flipped) to hide all the luxury goods that he had.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think panhandlers also gauge who they can say things to and get away with it, in my experience.

My daughter was on her way to work (in her nurse’s uniform) when one approached her car window and asked her for money. She was respectful in her response but he started swearing and screaming at her calling her a w (rhymes with shore). I‘ve been at that same corner many times with that guy there and he’s never said anything like that to me. Understandably, it shook her up. (Btw we often have to care for these people in the hospital which can also be scary.)

A couple of months ago I stopped in a gas station on my way to work. There was a young guy by the door asking people to buy him a Coke. I happened to make eye contact with him as he approached me. I bought him a Coke and handed it to him as I went back to my car. I see him there all the time, day and night, so I’m sure he gets plenty of Cokes or whatever he asks for since he stays there long enough, just as the guy in the OP also probably gets plenty of burgers, too.

Like a pp, I have also bought people food and had them get mad. One guy angrily took the bag from me then went over to a nearby car and tried to sell it. Clearly he wanted cash, not food. (There are all kinds of food banks nearby and I regularly see volunteers delivering food to their nearby encampments.) Like so many other societal problems, there have not been any easy solutions to dealing with this, but I see it as a matter of public safety. Arrests have been made in this area for human trafficking, assaults and stabbings and shootings, not to mention so many who are addicted and disease-ridden. They‘ve also found that they’re from all over the place, not just the city, so one approach is that they’re trying to involve agencies from other parts of the state to help curb the problem. Several months ago they cleared out the whole encampment, even providing housing (as well as services), yet slowly, many are coming back. They prefer to live on their own terms and not having others tell them what to do, even if it’s on a tent on the sidewalk rather than an actual home.

 

[Dakota731]

I don't remember what happened (witnessed road rage or something) but I was with my adult son (a teacher, who has had a student head to his class with a gun). As we observed whatever he said to me "Don't ever engage with anyone anymore, move away. EVERYONE is now a potential danger, with a gun, out to do harm." We do live in a state that allows guns everywhere - and it has curtailed where we go now.

In that thought, I would have taken his picture. I would gone into the Shake Shack OR called when I got home to ask for the management contact information. I would have contacted them (and regional), sent photo and said that this man was aggressively harassing every single customer, and they need to contact authorities about how to handle having him move on. I'd probably say I don't feel safe returning to give my message strength. I would use as a teaching opportunity for my child on (1) the man's racism (2) how to protect yourself and move away (3) options for letting those involved know (4) and when appropriate making sure the victim of a situation are okay.



We have this problem here. Every shopping center parking lot, medians etc you see well dressed folks with handwritten signs with some sob story asking for help. Sometimes they have kids in strollers next to them. Stay around long enough you see them cross over and get in a nice car. Many of these folks are actually working for someone and hand over much of the money. If I want to help I donate to a local agency that helps folks get on their feet. I would never give cash to the panhandlers.

Our local paper did a story recently and followed a young man who had homeless signs and was asking for money. Well, when it got dark someone picked him up in a nice car and proceeded to take him to a lovely home. With all the job openings in our area, you could get ten jobs offered to you in one day, many with signing bonuses. The policeman they interviewed for the story said 99% of the time the money people give to these panhandlers goes straight to drugs.

 

[Dakota731]

I think panhandlers also gauge who they can say things to and get away with it, in my experience.

My daughter was on her way to work (in her nurse’s uniform) when one approached her car window and asked her for money. She was respectful in her response but he started swearing and screaming at her calling her a w (rhymes with shore). I‘ve been at that same corner many times with that guy there and he’s never said anything like that to me. Understandably, it shook her up. (Btw we often have to care for these people in the hospital which can also be scary.)

A couple of months ago I stopped in a gas station on my way to work. There was a young guy by the door asking people to buy him a Coke. I happened to make eye contact with him as he approached me. I bought him a Coke and handed it to him as I went back to my car. I see him there all the time, day and night, so I’m sure he gets plenty of Cokes or whatever he asks for since he stays there long enough, just as the guy in the OP also probably gets plenty of burgers, too.

Like a pp, I have also bought people food and had them get mad. One guy angrily took the bag from me then went over to a nearby car and tried to sell it. Clearly he wanted cash, not food. (There are all kinds of food banks nearby and I regularly see volunteers delivering food to their nearby encampments.) Like so many other societal problems, there have not been any easy solutions to dealing with this, but I see it as a matter of public safety. Arrests have been made in this area for human trafficking, assaults and stabbings and shootings, not to mention so many who are addicted and disease-ridden. They‘ve also found that they’re from all over the place, not just the city, so one approach is that they’re trying to involve agencies from other parts of the state to help curb the problem. Several months ago they cleared out the whole encampment, even providing housing (as well as services), yet slowly, many are coming back. They prefer to live on their own terms and not having others tell them what to do, even if it’s on a tent on the sidewalk rather than an actual home.

And they usually are drug tested in shelters which is why many homeless prefer the streets. So building more shelters isn’t the answer either.

 

[Dakota731]

What makes you think it couldn't be unprovoked? I was there. I went in about the same time. Nobody was even acknowledging the panhandler other than avoiding him.

Some people are just irredeemable.

And what about the innocent people pushed onto subway tracks recently in NY? Or the poor elderly in the news the past few weeks who have been punched just for the heck of it falling and hitting their heads - several have died. Who says violence has to be provoked. I would guess most of the time it’s not.

 

[bcla]

Our local paper did a story recently and followed a young man who had homeless signs and was asking for money. Well, when it got dark someone picked him up in a nice car and proceeded to take him to a lovely home. With all the job openings in our area, you could get ten jobs offered to you in one day, many with signing bonuses. The policeman they interviewed for the story said 99% of the time the money people give to these panhandlers goes straight to drugs.

We've had that around here.

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/bart-panhandlers-begging-roma/

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

killed??

I’m with @ronandannette, it wouldn’t even really cross my mind to wonder if they had a weapon. I probably wouldn’t say anything, but I’d look over at the person who was the target and see visually if they were ok.

Many of our homeless unfortunately struggle with mental illness that's not to say it's always what people think such as schizophrenia (which that as a diagnosis is becoming moot now), PTSD is a big one and sadly many of our homeless are veterans and while racists comments are racist comments sometimes things can be behind them.

The actual comment uttered by the person is completely wrong and ignorant, however there is a level of awareness about people regarding one's safety. It's hard to say whether the person was homeless or not, perhaps unlikely though IMO still a possibility could be a person who is more under the Silver Alert banner. I'm not sure if you have Silver Alerts there or the equivalent but they are for "elderly, developmentally or cognitively-impaired person has gone missing or is determined to be at-risk" So if I felt it was more that I might approach in a more concerned manner rather than a combative manner.

On the other hand if I didn't glean that might be the situation I would not engage. One instance we had with a homeless camp nearby (which you would never know there was one) a man came to the Walmart (which was right by it) with a metal rod threatening and ended up hitting the police officer. I live in a safe area, unfortunately things do happen regardless so I get the inkling of awareness. And FTR when it comes to this situation a gun is not the weapon I would think of, actually that's the last weapon I would think of. It's far far far more likely if a person is homeless and has some mental illness issues they would not be carrying a gun but rather a knife, a rod, a stick, or something else is much more likely. But predictable though it may be that some automatically think gun.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That is such a such reflection on society. He was asking for food and not one person was kind enough to buy him a cheap meal.

That is true, food is different than alcohol or the much more common of money. On the other hand there's a delicate balance here people generally walk. Unfortunately our social services in the U.S. as a program is very underfunded. Most people would suggest you given monetary aid to the source itself the source being the foundation, shelter, etc or to give supplies to them. One of the biggest concerns about giving directly to the person, be it food or funds, to the person is will that increase their frequency of doing so and things sometimes can escalate to a territory that becomes a big issue.

There's a level of compassion that I think most of us have but there's also a practicality aspect to it. It's a fine line people walk and hard to judge someone either way. There are some lovely stories I have from my area of people helping and then not so lovely stories of people acting like they need help and just taking advantage of the compassionate helpful people here. Many times citizens are just ill equipped to do much, police as well. It's being between a rock and a hard place. Where the OP is talking about that area along with San Francisco are two big areas where this is a real big problem. We just got back from Vegas last week and normally you see a lot of homeless people on the Strip, lining the pedestrian bridges or on the streets or by the escalators to the pedestrian bridges but it was way too hot for them to do so. I'm sure there are people who have bought them a meal or two, it unfortunately does nothing to ease their situation but an extremely quick fix. IDK I just get how people might feel in that situation enough to know it's hard for me to judge on a society level in a looking down way. In many ways the issue with the society is the lack of care, attention and funding at the government level but that's just a big topic in itself.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I nodded my head reading this. You make a very good point about fear not being ingrained in us. When I go somewhere, I don’t check to see where the exits are, give everyone a once over to make sure they look safe, or be hyper vigilant about my surroundings.

I don't either and fear certainly isn't ingrained in me nor anyone I know.

But there are locations in my metro I know that predicate more awareness of my surroundings, I know this is the same in your area as is mine.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I would not have said a word. But man, I am sick and tired of being accosted by panhandlers as of late. It's rarely "Can you spare a dime" stuff anymore. Pure aggression and anger. I really don't care if you are mentally ill. Stop following me, stop touching me, stop screaming at me.

I am starting to avoid cities.

 

[prairie_girl]

I don't either and fear certainly isn't ingrained in me nor anyone I know.

But there are locations in my metro I know that predicate more awareness of my surroundings, I know this is the same in your area as is mine.

If these boards can be taken as a small sample size, you are definitely in the minority.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If these boards can be taken as a small sample size, you are definitely in the minority.

You can't help how someone feels and how they feel is very valid to them. However there's a generalization that always gets placed especially when there are those outside the U.S. commenting.

IMO there's two different conversations:

• How someone personally feels about their surroundings which could be due to their own personal experiences, how they were raised, where they lived at before or currently speaking, etc.
• How one's area is on crime level

The picture most of you outside the U.S. with respects to this Board get is a mixture of the two when they are two different conversations. I feel very safe in my area although I know things do and can happen, I don't look around for exits when I go to a movie theater or anywhere else although that's not entirely a bad idea for a completely different reason like a fire or in the unfortunate but truly real way of a stampede or something. I don't constantly think someone is ready for an OK Corral. But I do know certain areas of my metro where I need to be more vigilant or areas I avoid all together especially if alone and at night. Many people, IMO, are like this as well, if you talk to those IRL.

 

[Pink Partridge]

That is such a such reflection on society. He was asking for food and not one person was kind enough to buy him a cheap meal.

Not about kindness. I will never again buy a panhandler food. I have done so in the past and had it thrown at me. Told they want #@*$!! the money instead. This after they asked for food.

I just ignore unstable people now. I should be able to walk into a restaurant with out being harassed.

 

[CdnCarrie]

That’s not West Broadway but I get your point.

Of course now I realize those were paralell streets and not an intersection but yup right during business hours on a gorgeous summer afternoon. And look at the Forks and all that happened there recently.
I'm not so worried about weapons but that someone is high or mental illness. You just have to stay safe.

 

[bcla]

I don't either and fear certainly isn't ingrained in me nor anyone I know.

But there are locations in my metro I know that predicate more awareness of my surroundings, I know this is the same in your area as is mine.

As I noted, this was in the Uptown neighborhood of Oakland, California. It's a rather interesting neighborhood. The new Shake Shack location (on Telegraph) is about a block away from the classic Paramount Theater on Broadway and near the Fox Theater on Telegraph. One can easily take BART to get there. A variety of dining is available in the area, which is amazing because it was considered more or less a wasteland and a failure of urban renewal maybe a decade ago. There were department stores that closed. Sears had a beautiful Art Deco building that closed. But then Sears moved into the former Emporium department store (where Shake Shack takes a corner) but the I Magnin store was underutilized. The new Sears location then closed although I think they were claiming there was a lot of shoplifting. Some of these turned into loft apartments. And a lot of new, high priced loft apartments have been built. There's even a Whole Foods in the neighborhood. But I really like how they integrated Shake Shack into the old Emporium building.

https://www.berkeleyside.org/2020/12/23/east-bay-restaurant-openings-and-closings-in-december-2020

At the time I saw the incident, one door was blocked with a sign on the inside. I'm not sure if it was broken or something, but it forced everyone entering to enter through a narrow opening. And wheelchair panhandler was roaming around the corner. This photo was around the time of COVID, so the cordons are gone and one can just enter. At the time I left, wheelchair guy was actually right against the non-functioning door and was asking every single person coming in for food and was asking people coming out where his food was.

But I'd think the public transportation is probably what makes it lively and what might bring in some of the panhandlers. There are some tents set up on the sidewalk. I noted that on Sunday there was some sort of LGBT pride event going on in front of the Paramount Theater. But there will be a host of more affluent customers dining there and I could see how the panhandlers might hope that it would lead to more money or goods. And this guy was clearly asking for food. I don't know if it was a sense of frustration, but I can't see how he was justified in any way where it was OK to respond like that.