WWYD - Shady things happened with workers while roofing

[RogueX]

Stuff like this is part of the reason why I'm glad my husband can handle pretty much all of our home repairs. He had to replace our roof the first Thanksgiving after we bought our house, so between him and hid father, they got it done.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In my area, the bathrooms thing is a norm in contracts (it's part of all the standard clauses you get before you even talk work) - you provide access or they bring a port o pot and charge you (I'm shocked it's not the norm elsewhere for jobs that are all day over multiple days). You can't get work done on a house without allowing it, since we don't tend to have places where you can just "run and go."

Again, I'd let that go - normal human kindness if nothing else.

But the fruit was a dick move...

While most of the experiences here within the neighborhood are new builds so they already have porta potties (to a point in the construction like when it's mostly interior stuff/finishing work and then there is none) there have been roof replacements too. Elsewhere in my area my mother has had a new roof and then repairs to that roof many years later, in-laws had repairs to their roof as well. None of those ever have bathroom facilities like a porta potty required in a contract and I've never seen a porta potty in front of a house for a roof replacement.

What ends up happening is workers going somewhere else to go to the bathroom or if the homeowner allows it to use their facility. I have also had contractors in our home who I would be fine with using the bathroom but have run into one where as another poster mentioned it was against policy to do so and know that there are companies that do have that rule.

I def. believe that in your area it is normal though.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don’t think the workers not speaking English is an indication of the behavior expected.

I never read it that way honestly but my experience is the language barrier. The vast majority of contractors here that build your homes, roof your homes, and paint your homes, etc are non-english speaking. That language barrier is normally not a big issue, I mean you can fumble through it respectfully but there are dicey times.

It was a nightmare when Google fiber for instance installed in our area (we didn't have a choice). That language barrier (Google fiber used subcontractors from the area) was a very big problem not only because of things like replacing sod (which the city required if the work was done at the front of the house) with the correct grass (ours was replaced 3 or 4 times because of this) but also just the understanding of whose property was what. There was so many complaints from homeowners that Google fiber sent out to every area being worked at 1 person who could speak english well because it was a gigantic mess before. Totally sounds poor to say that but I get where the daughter of the OP was getting at and why the OP included that information. Nationality, ethnicity and language spoken most of the time doesn't matter in a story, sometimes it does.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Day of the work to be done, a van pulls in from ANOTHER state with about 8 workers in it, all but one could speak English.

Because of where I live in my metro that is split between two states this wouldn't even faze me. In fact 99% of the time the cars that are here in our neighborhood for construction come from the state next to me. The contractors are shared even between the builders depending on the job and the builder.

As for the language that is also very true in my area. It's normally not a big issue, the english may not be the best but typically you can work it out well enough.

the guy DIDN"T CLOSE THE DOOR and was "sitting" on the toilet using it.

That's gross

Well, out comes a big sack (think santa clause bag) and they all started filling it up with the apples from her trees - she has an apple/pear/cherry orchard.

That's disrespectful

We have the owner coming this week to "talk" and I looking for some good talking points to bring up.

I agree with another poster. Your daughter needs to handle this. I'm not saying I don't get the outrage, I def. don't agree with how things went down but also think your daughter, while she may have froze she needs to speak up in the moment for the future especially because she had not one but two but three but four but five opportunities to speak up (the total of 4 bathroom breaks and then the orchard). Had she spoken up it's entirely possible none of this after stuff of hunting down the owner, being very upset, etc would be around. Not intended to be harshly stated but nipping it right then with "close the door please" and then if/when someone else asked to use the restroom either declining politely with "I'm really not comfortable anymore with that" or "if you do please close the door" (hopefully she has some sort of spray or something in the bathroom and if she does she could add "and please spray if you need to" yes these things shouldn't have to be stated out loud. I couldn't tell you if by doing the above that would have stopped them from taking stuff from the orchard but at the first sign of a bag and them going to it telling them "um no what are you doing, you can't take those, etc" something to that effect (assertive and yet polite tone of voice) would have hopefully had them stop right there. Language barrier or no language barrier much of this could have been worked out well enough to understand expectations.

What she and her husband have done is sorta borderline harass the owner although I don't suspect that's their intent. 12 calls is a lot and every day. A few calls over time is sufficient before lack of response dictates further measures like a poor review, a BBB complaint or depending on the situation a complaint to an AG or other appropriate state role (this one does not fit that situation IMO).

What's done is done, let your daughter meet with the owner though. If the work seems to be done well enough (and perhaps that's a request she could make that the work be inspected for quality) there's more an unprofessionalism that occurred. The employees certainly need to know you can't (corrected word) just avail yourself to other people's property even if that should be common knowledge and the bathroom situation needs to be addressed that if an owner allows access you need to be respectful of the space. We all may be comfortable in our own homes but the employees were not in their own homes.

I'm sorry though that your daughter appears to have been very affected by the encounter, hopefully she can work on getting more comfortable. I could also understand if for a while after if it was possible having her husband home, or someone else home. Not to take charge of the situation necessarily but to add a layer of comfort. I say that because there will likely be times where this isn't possible and if she is very affected now best to get that worked on. We all may have preferences but not being able to answer the door because of it is a different story. To be fair though I don't really answer my door. UPS and FedEx and USPS and Amazon and Walmart, etc all just leave them by the door. Doordash I request to be contactless and leave by the door, one time the very friendly worker didn't see that but I had to just tell her with my mask on "you're just going to want to leave that by the door thank you" because my husband was positive with covid at the time. But if I need to answer the door I would, sounds like right now she's too affected to do that.

 

[kymom99]

I never read it that way honestly but my experience is the language barrier. The vast majority of contractors here that build your homes, roof your homes, and paint your homes, etc are non-english speaking. That language barrier is normally not a big issue, I mean you can fumble through it respectfully but there are dicey times.

It was a nightmare when Google fiber for instance installed in our area (we didn't have a choice). That language barrier (Google fiber used subcontractors from the area) was a very big problem not only because of things like replacing sod (which the city required if the work was done at the front of the house) with the correct grass (ours was replaced 3 or 4 times because of this) but also just the understanding of whose property was what. There was so many complaints from homeowners that Google fiber sent out to every area being worked at 1 person who could speak english well because it was a gigantic mess before. Totally sounds poor to say that but I get where the daughter of the OP was getting at and why the OP included that information. Nationality, ethnicity and language spoken most of the time doesn't matter in a story, sometimes it does.

I see what you are saying. I guess it was the out of state plates and all that that had me looking at the post that way. I certainly see the concern of the OP. And I don’t blame her for supporting her young adult daughter. I know I went to my dad all the time for advice and wish I still could.

We are building a house right now. We put in a nice garden on the property. When the concrete workers were doing their thing, my husband told them to help themselves to the corn. They took him up on it. If they had helped themselves without his offer, we would have been complaining for sure.

It’s been my experience that people doing home improvement work, etc. often look a little tough around the edges. We got new windows on our house a few years back. My friend recommended a company. She said they did a very good job but cautioned us not to be surprised by the crew doing the work. We didn’t care about that at all because they worked hard and got the job done. My husband was out at the new place one day talking with the guy in charge of the concrete. One of the workers said something about having to meet with his parole officer. It causes you to raise an eyebrow but we just feel like people who are willing to work hard deserve a chance.

All that is to say, we still expect good manners and this business owner should hold his employees to higher standards.

 

[QueenIsabella]

When we've had work done, I've always let the workers used my bathroom. It never occurred to me to mind. Where else are they supposed to go? I'd rather they use my toilet than my bushes, for sure. That said, the open door thing is beyond odd--I would find that very off-putting.

The fruit, OTOH, is beyond the pale. It would be one thing if the OP's daughter had invited them to help themselves, quite another for them to just take it. I would definitely talk to the owner about that. Not in a threatening, "I'm going to call the cops" way, but it doesn't sound like it's the first time they did something like that. And it's not even close to okay.

Funny, not-so-funny, sort of related story. My aunt used to plant tomatoes along her fence in her yard. She noticed that a neighbor walked by daily, and was picking her tomatoes. So, she started picking them a little early, and putting them on her kitchen windowsill to ripen. The guy was so bold, he WENT UP TO HER KITCHEN WINDOW AND TOOK HER TOMATOES! Um, no sir, not for you! I think she called the cops, non-emergency, and they talked to the guy. She was older and lived alone--he wasn't actually threatening, but you just never know.

 

[Lehuaann]

Op, that’s disgusting. It seems our theft issues are unused supplies that we paid for…workers will just walk right off with them.

If I am home alone, outside workers are not allowed inside. If we have work done inside (which we just did last week with new flooring), we arrange to have 2 of us home.

As far as workers using our toilet, I’m not going to lie, it grosses me out. I usually allow them, but believe they should do their business somewhere else on break or lunch.

However, last week multiple flooring guys left for a long break, came back, asked to use our toilet, then stunk up the house to the point we were gagging. DD is immunocompromised, so stayed in her room most of the day, but this is the toilet she uses. I started thinking about Monkeypox, Covid, bodily fluids and sanitized everything after they left. Not sure if it’s worth the health risk.

 

[Jangles]

If a worker, of any sex, was invited into my home to use the loo and then deliberately flashed ‘private bits’, I would remove myself from the situation and call the police. Here it would be a criminal offence. If on the other hand, the lock was broken or the door inadvertently swung open, then I would let it go.

 

[DL1WDW2]

At this point I would not waste time or even mention police .
She saw them and allowed it So No Crime is prob what the police will say. And I would consider myself lucky something worse did not happen with allowing stranger in home.
I understand about the lingering creepy feeling. In all my many years never have a I had a guy delivering furniture “ look me up & down “ in such an uncomfortable sexual way . Thank goodness my son in law was present and it is not my house cause I would feel uncomfortable that they know where I live.
This house was just purchased after complete interior renovation and none of the garage door openers were in the house . Meaning all those subcontractors hired by original owner probably used the openers and still have them .
First thing I told my daughter was to install a new garage door opener and hire a professional locksmith to change all the locks.
That’s how creeped out I was …

I need To learn to be bolder also and ask for proof that company has insurance in case a worker is hurt on my property . I think they are required to carry that proof when they arrive to work . Honestly I have never thought about this until now with this conversation and needing to hire a plumber for my residence.
What are the legal protections to ask before hiring somebody ?
Nowadays how do you protect repair work or delivery since everything seems to be contracted out .?

 

[Snowflakey]

I must be weird, I’d have no issue having workers use my bathroom, even outside workers. That said, had my roof done last year and they were done in about 5 hours, no owner, but about a dozen guys, no one needing a bathroom, no one really spoke English, they did break my patio table which I told the owner about, but it was cheap and old. The job was about $8000 and I was happy with the price. My house painter was here for 6 weeks by himself (he’s great, took me a year to get him), never asked to use my bathroom but he could’ve. Our SAT tutor must’ve had issues, used my bathroom every visit, 3 kids so was here A LOT over the years. I made sure to clean it before he came.

That was a great price! Wow! DD's is $24,000 - and before anyone here starts saying that was too high, it wasn't. They got several quotes and as I said my DH works construction and priced it out himself.

 

[Snowflakey]

Then I’m weird too because I’ve had work done and had the workers use my bathroom. When I had one of my bathrooms redone the guy was here at least a week. He was fighting cancer and he told me he drinks a ton of water. So yes he used my bathroom a lot. He did close the door each time though.

If the workers just came in to "pee" - no problem. But coming in to poop, made a MESS all up the back of her toilet, AND did it without closing the door so DD saw everything is not acceptable......

 

[Snowflakey]

I never read it that way honestly but my experience is the language barrier. The vast majority of contractors here that build your homes, roof your homes, and paint your homes, etc are non-english speaking. That language barrier is normally not a big issue, I mean you can fumble through it respectfully but there are dicey times.

It was a nightmare when Google fiber for instance installed in our area (we didn't have a choice). That language barrier (Google fiber used subcontractors from the area) was a very big problem not only because of things like replacing sod (which the city required if the work was done at the front of the house) with the correct grass (ours was replaced 3 or 4 times because of this) but also just the understanding of whose property was what. There was so many complaints from homeowners that Google fiber sent out to every area being worked at 1 person who could speak english well because it was a gigantic mess before. Totally sounds poor to say that but I get where the daughter of the OP was getting at and why the OP included that information. Nationality, ethnicity and language spoken most of the time doesn't matter in a story, sometimes it does.

Thank you for understanding what I wrote!

 

[Snowflakey]

I agree with another poster. Your daughter needs to handle this. I'm not saying I don't get the outrage, I def. don't agree with how things went down but also think your daughter, while she may have froze she needs to speak up in the moment for the future especially because she had not one but two but three but four but five opportunities to speak up (the total of 4 bathroom breaks and then the orchard). Had she spoken up it's entirely possible none of this after stuff of hunting down the owner, being very upset, etc would be around. Not intended to be harshly stated but nipping it right then with "close the door please" and then if/when someone else asked to use the restroom either declining politely with "I'm really not comfortable anymore with that" or "if you do please close the door" (hopefully she has some sort of spray or something in the bathroom and if she does she could add "and please spray if you need to" yes these things shouldn't have to be stated out loud. I couldn't tell you if by doing the above that would have stopped them from taking stuff from the orchard but at the first sign of a bag and them going to it telling them "um no what are you doing, you can't take those, etc" something to that effect (assertive and yet polite tone of voice) would have hopefully had them stop right there. Language barrier or no language barrier much of this could have been worked out well enough to understand expectations.

What she and her husband have done is sorta borderline harass the owner although I don't suspect that's their intent. 12 calls is a lot and every day. A few calls over time is sufficient before lack of response dictates further measures like a poor review, a BBB complaint or depending on the situation a complaint to an AG or other appropriate state role (this one does not fit that situation IMO).

As I've said here, my DD is and has been handling this all on her own. Not me, not her father, her and her husband. I noted that I may attend the meeting however that has changed and I won't be as I have a meeting I'm hosting. My husband will be there because there are several things wrong with the work done on the roof and he will be discussing that since he knows what he is talking about.

In no way what so ever did DD and her husband harass the owner. It wasn't 12 calls a day. It was ONE call every day following the instructions of the receptionist at this company. She told my DD to call every day until they hear from the owner.

 

[Snowflakey]

I see what you are saying. I guess it was the out of state plates and all that that had me looking at the post that way. I certainly see the concern of the OP. And I don’t blame her for supporting her young adult daughter. I know I went to my dad all the time for advice and wish I still could.

Thank you for realizing it is perfectly fine to support my daughter.

I go to my Dad all the time too! I can't tell you how much wisdom he's given me over the years. He's the best and I'm thankful every single day for the strong woman he has helped make me become.

 

[Snowflakey]

Op, that’s disgusting. It seems our theft issues are unused supplies that we paid for…workers will just walk right off with them.

If I am home alone, outside workers are not allowed inside. If we have work done inside (which we just did last week with new flooring), we arrange to have 2 of us home.

As far as workers using our toilet, I’m not going to lie, it grosses me out. I usually allow them, but believe they should do their business somewhere else on break or lunch.

However, last week multiple flooring guys left for a long break, came back, asked to use our toilet, then stunk up the house to the point we were gagging. DD is immunocompromised, so stayed in her room most of the day, but this is the toilet she uses. I started thinking about Monkeypox, Covid, bodily fluids and sanitized everything after they left. Not sure if it’s worth the health risk.

Exactly! My DD was gagging from the awful smell, and then when she went into the bathroom after the guy left there was "poo" sprayed all up the toilet. Totally unacceptable!! And she is worried about covid also as it has ramped up again around here!

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Welcome to Texas. Lol. I guess the rest of the US is becoming Texas now. Get used to it. What your daughter experienced is just the tip of the iceberg.

And yes, taking apples is theft.

And I think it’s great that you and your husband are helping out your daughter and her husband. That’s what family is for. My parents were distant and my husband’s parents died young. When we were young, my husband and I were truly on our own. We could have avoided a lot of simple mistakes if we’d had some basic guidance!

 

[JaxDad]

I’m sorry your DD had that unacceptable experience. I recently had my roof replaced, and it was of those oh-so-rare, perfectly satisfying home repair jobs. I went with the company with the highest estimate, because they had a very detailed, professional proposal, AND my general contractor neighbor highly recommended them. They showed up on time with a very large team of workers and started immediately. The only funny thing was their break. They actually brought a microwave, and asked if they could plug it into an outside outlet and use my patio table for lunch. No problem! They never asked to use my bathroom. When they were leaving, I did a quick inspection. Everything was spotless. They totally cleaned out all my gutters and even neatly trimmed some hedges as part of their cleanup around the house. The supervisor provided all the completed paperwork (with photos) so I could get an insurance price reduction. It was awesome. I was so glad I didn’t go with the low bidder.

 

[Snowflakey]

Welcome to Texas. Lol. I guess the rest of the US is becoming Texas now. Get used to it. What your daughter experienced is just the tip of the iceberg.

And yes, taking apples is theft.

And I think it’s great that you and your husband are helping out your daughter and her husband. That’s what family is for. My parents were distant and my husband’s parents died young. When we were young, my husband and I were truly on our own. We could have avoided a lot of simple mistakes if we’d had some basic guidance!

Thank you!!!

And you are right it is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Welcome to Texas. Lol. I guess the rest of the US is becoming Texas now. Get used to it. What your daughter experienced is just the tip of the iceberg.

What does this mean?

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

What does this mean?

If you don’t know yet, you’ll find out soon enough. Lol