WWYD? Medical Profession related

[luvmy3]

I would check all the consents to see what is signed, I am guessing they signed a consent for Guardasil.

I have been on depo for 4 years and have never once signed when I got my injection. Of course I pick up my Rx myself and I am an adult so it may be different for a minor who gets the medication directly from her doctor.
I also do not sign when my children get vaccinations, although I do recall doing it when they were young.

 

[DawnCt1]

I would check all the consents to see what is signed, I am guessing they signed a consent for Guardasil.

Good point. If they signed the consent for Gardasil, the only legal error is the failure to give Depo as scheduled and even that would be tough to prove, since she was called back to get the Depo.

 

[luvmy3]

She is accountable. She reported it. Everyone knows. Its in the patient's file. Its in her personnel file. She could have kept it a secret. I wonder how many health care workers will report correctable mistakes or undiscoverable mistakes, wrong medications, wrong dose, wrong patient, wrong time, wrong route, etc, IF every time an error was made they faced a disciplinary hearing at the state level. I would guess that there would be a lot less self reporting.

Do they automatically face a disciplinary hearing if something is reported to the medical board? Does it depend on the severity of the mistake?
Also are those types of things made public, for when a patient wants to research a particular practice, or facility. I don't mean publizising the nurses name, only where she works and where the mistake was made?

 

[npmommie]

this child is technically a minor, a parent should have had to sign consent for a vaccine. although I do think a minor can give consent for the guardisil themselves, not sure.

 

[princess momma]

If this incident is an error by the nurse I don't think it's serious enough to be reported to the state board of nursing, but I'm not convinced this was a nursing error.

I think it also could be a physician error that is being blamed on the nurse. Call me cynical, but I think it's quite possible the whole story is not being told here.

 

[npmommie]

Do they automatically face a disciplinary hearing if something is reported to the medical board? Does it depend on the severity of the mistake?
Also are those types of things made public, for when a patient wants to research a particular practice, or facility. I don't mean publizising the nurses name, only where she works and where the mistake was made?

No of course she would not face a disciplinary hearing for a mistake like this. it is a human error and we don't know where in the chain this error occurred.
a nurse is always taught give the R's
right medicine
right patient
right dose
right route

we don't know if she didn't follow this, or if the error came from somewhere else. we don't know what is in the chart. maybe the doctor wrote guardisil?
who knows, but there is no disciplinary hearing for something like this.
and I know for hospitals yes you can look up their "records" on outcomes.
for doctors too you can see if they have had any disciplinary action by the board in their record,
also i dont' know about all states, but if you look up a nurse in my state you can also see if there have been any disciplinary actions on their license.

 

[DawnCt1]

Do they automatically face a disciplinary hearing if something is reported to the medical board? Does it depend on the severity of the mistake?
Also are those types of things made public, for when a patient wants to research a particular practice, or facility. I don't mean publizising the nurses name, only where she works and where the mistake was made?

The Medical Board does not oversee nurses, the Dept of Health does. Are all mistakes made public? No. Mistakes happen every day, in hospitals, nursing homes, clinics, doctor's offices, schools, etc. Any complaint addressed to the Dept of Health would require a response from the person who had the complaint filed against them, so yes, they would face a disciplinary hearing. It doesn't mean that they would be found guilty of negligence, because that is what they would be investigated for, but it would be stressful. Could you imagine what kind of bureaucracy we would need to handle every inconsequential error?

 

[luvmy3]

No of course she would not face a disciplinary hearing for a mistake like this. it is a human error and we don't know where in the chain this error occurred.
a nurse is always taught give the R's
right medicine
right patient
right dose
right route

we don't know if she didn't follow this, or if the error came from somewhere else. we don't know what is in the chart. maybe the doctor wrote guardisil?
who knows, but there is no disciplinary hearing for something like this.
and I know for hospitals yes you can look up their "records" on outcomes.
for doctors too you can see if they have had any disciplinary action by the board in their record,
also i dont' know about all states, but if you look up a nurse in my state you can also see if there have been any disciplinary actions on their license.

If this is a nurse's error, which you are right we don't know, I still think it should be reported. I do not believe she should have a hearing, just a record of it somewhere else other than the doctor's office, or the patients file. I'm not at all saying she should be punished, or fired or anything like that, only that the incident is reported to the proper agency. I think that is the responsible thing so that current and possible new patients she may have contact with can be aware (again, not her name, only the name of the practice or facility she works for).

 

[princess momma]

If this is a nurse's error, which you are right we don't know, I still think it should be reported. I do not believe she should have a hearing, just a record of it somewhere else other than the doctor's office, or the patients file. I'm not at all saying she should be punished, or fired or anything like that, only that the incident is reported to the proper agency. I think that is the responsible thing so that current and possible new patients she may have contact with can be aware (again, not her name, only the name of the practice or facility she works for).

Well, it doesn't work that way. It wouldn't automatically go on her record or the record of the facility. Can you imagine all the patients that would complain about their doctors & nurses if things like this did automatically go onto their record? There would need to be an investigation and a hearing, and most likely this would never amount to anything.

 

[npmommie]

here is an article about this discussion

http://www.nurseweek.com/news/features/00-08/discip.html

 

[delilah]

I am speaking from a Dr.'s perspective. We don't stock Depoprovera in our office, so, the patient needs to get it from a pharmacy. I write the original prescription for one year's time, and actually, patients are free to come in for their Depoprovera at their convenience, even if I don't happen to be in the office. We do stock Guardisil for those patients whose insurance will cover it.

I once spent about 45 minutes trying to figure out just what immunizations a particular nurse gave a specific patient. I ended up needing to call the pharmaceutical company and have them look up what was given by lot number, which is unique. Needless to say, that nurse was disciplined within our practice, and the entire nursing staff had a refresher on correct documentation of immunizations. Improper documentation is a pet peeve of mine, but, fortunately, with most immunizations, getting an extra one won't really harm a patient (unless they are allergic) and might actually save a visit sometime down the road.

In my opinion, sexually active teens should be using condoms, to prevent from STD's, which Depoprovera won't do. There are failures of every type of contraception. I think it is a shame that a person who had a good relationship with a particular physician would even consider suing the doctor because a nurse made an error. Nurses make errors every day. But, doctors take responsibility for their mistakes. Not fair, in my opinion.

 

[Deb in IA]

I would report it. This is malpractice.

It is neither malpractice nor battery. (as much as people would like, a medical mistake is not a synonym for malpractice).

I'm sorry if you are disheartened by those of us who think a patient has a responsibility to inform the proper authorities about medical mistakes, even non malicious ones. Would you feel differently if that patient had an adverse effect from the mistaken medication, or worse a life threatening complication? Just because that didn't happens doesn't mean the error should go unreported.

Galahad is right. It is not malpractice.
And YES, it DOES make a difference if there was or was not resulting harm or damage.

Here is the LEGAL definition of medical malpractice:

Medical Malpractice occurs when a negligent act or omission by a doctor or other medical professional results in damage or harm to a patient.

I'm sorry but I find this thread so disheartening. Let's just replace all healthcare workers with robots and eliminate non malicious human error for good.

Very true.


Look, EVERYONE makes mistakes, right? Even you, luvmy3?
I have no reason to believe there was any known wrongdoing. As soon as the mistake was made, the patient was informed. There was no denying the incident or attempts to cover it up.

As for reporting to the nursing board, let's leave that to the professionals, shall we? What should, and probably will happen in this case is that the doctor (the nurses' boss) will sit down with her and go over the incident and find out how and why it happened - too many patients? too many orders? confusion over the order? Depo and Gardisil kept too close together in the refrigerator? Labelled too similarly?
The nurses' performance record should also be reviewed - is this a single incident in an otherwise stellar job performance, or is this a pattern of sloppy behavior?

After this has been throughly investigated, it should the the doctor who reports this nurse, if it is needed.

 

[DawnCt1]

here is an article about this discussion

http://www.nurseweek.com/news/features/00-08/discip.html

EXCELLENT article. It reminds me of the old saying, "Nurses are like guppies, they eat their young alive". Here is an exerpt of the emotional toll.

she considers herself lucky to be working as a nurse. However, she’s struggled with bitterness toward the profession, which she says "cut her adrift" during her time of need, and she’s visited a counselor to help her regain her self-esteem.

"I think all the time: Why did I ever become a nurse?" said Adams, who recalls that colleagues were "stand-offish" and insensitive after the incident. "I feel I wouldn’t have had to go through so much heartache, pain and self-recrimination if I had more support from my peers. Other nurses take the attitude that ‘it happened to you, but it would never happen to me.’

 

[Darsa]

I'm late chucking in my two pennies...

I would report it. This is malpractice. She could also probably sue for battery as she was subjected to medical treatment she did not consent to and it was not an emergency.

I do NOT believe this is malpractice. I am not an attorney but I am well and truly "contaminated" by them on a daily basis, and this does not sound to me as though it constitutes malpractice.

That being said, I also believe that the doctor's office should report this error themselves; I really think this would be the honorable thing to do. Everyone makes mistakes; show me someone who says they've never made a mistake and I'll show you a liar

(eeeps, as you can see I haven't read the other replies to this thread. Not all of 'em anyway!)

 

[npmommie]

Nurses make errors every day. But, doctors take responsibility for their mistakes. Not fair, in my opinion.

Doctors make errors too, unless i missed something and you all aren't humans??

and i might point ou that nurses are responsible for their own actions and their own license and no doctor has to take responsibility for a nurses mistake . in fact a nurse does not have to follow thru on a doctors order if she questions it or feels its not right, she is covered for that.
i have questioned many orders when i was in acute care, and also corrected many. doctors are humans too

 

[donald&daisy]

It is neither malpractice nor battery. (as much as people would like, a medical mistake is not a synonym for malpractice). It should be reported but hysteria doesn't help. Why would you suggest that they talk to the doctor? It sounds to me you want them to get some sort of retribution against the doctor. Once you want that, talking to the doctor seems to no longer be a reasonable option.

I disagree. It is most definitely a battery. The only way it wouldn't be is if she had given knowing consent to the vacine. It certainly doesn't sound like that's what happened here. In a battery damages are presumed the only issue would be how much. Since there arguably was no lasting harm done here she may only get nominal damages. I also think she most likely has a valid malpractice claim. There was clearly a duty of care and that was breached. Once again there might be an issue with causation or damages. I had edited my response after I had read other people's reactions and it was advice for a different approach if the patient or parent did not feel as strongly and perhaps just wanted to make sure the problem was addressed in house. I think it was brave and responsible for the Dr to come forward and admit the mistake. The course of action to take is up to the affected party. And if she wants to sue I wouldn't think it to be a hysterical response.

 

[DawnCt1]

Nurses make errors every day. But, doctors take responsibility for their mistakes. Not fair, in my opinion.

Nurses and doctors make mistakes. Nurses take responsibility for their own mistakes. They are licensed and they are accountable. No physician takes responsibility for a nurse's mistake when she violates the Nurse Practice Act.

 

[Disney Ella]

If the doctor's office wasn't taking this seriously, maybe I would report it, but it sounds like they did acknowledge that it was serious mistake. I'm sure there was a big meeting about this and maybe stricter policies put in place to ensure this doesn't happen again. While no one wants this kind of mistake to happen, I just don't see the value in reporting it, particularly when the doctor's office voluntarily told your friend what happened and didn't try to hide anything.

 

[Deb in IA]

I disagree. It is most definitely a battery. .

It is "most definitely" NOT.

LEGAL definition of battery:

A crime consisting of physical contact that is intended to harm someone. Unintentional harmful contact is not battery, no mater how careless the behavior or how severe the injury. A fist fight is a common battery; being hit by a wild pitch in a baseball game is not.

 

[luvmy3]

Galahad is right. It is not malpractice.
And YES, it DOES make a difference if there was or was not resulting harm or damage.

Here is the LEGAL definition of medical malpractice:

Medical Malpractice occurs when a negligent act or omission by a doctor or other medical professional results in damage or harm to a patient.





Very true.


Look, EVERYONE makes mistakes, right? Even you, luvmy3?
I have no reason to believe there was any known wrongdoing. As soon as the mistake was made, the patient was informed. There was no denying the incident or attempts to cover it up.

As for reporting to the nursing board, let's leave that to the professionals, shall we? What should, and probably will happen in this case is that the doctor (the nurses' boss) will sit down with her and go over the incident and find out how and why it happened - too many patients? too many orders? confusion over the order? Depo and Gardisil kept too close together in the refrigerator? Labelled too similarly?
The nurses' performance record should also be reviewed - is this a single incident in an otherwise stellar job performance, or is this a pattern of sloppy behavior?

After this has been throughly investigated, it should the the doctor who reports this nurse, if it is needed.

Yes I do make mistakes but mine don't have the potential to kill or harm patients

You are all free to feel the way you do, and let this kind of stuff go on without anyone other than the patient, nurse and doctor invloved being the wiser, and if something like this happens to you feel free to do whatever you want about it. But, if something like this happened to my dd I would report it to whoever it was necessary.