WWYD? Medical Profession related

[DawnCt1]

I disagree. It is most definitely a battery. The only way it wouldn't be is if she had given knowing consent to the vacine. It certainly doesn't sound like that's what happened here. In a battery damages are presumed the only issue would be how much. Since there arguably was no lasting harm done here she may only get nominal damages. I also think she most likely has a valid malpractice claim. There was clearly a duty of care and that was breached. Once again there might be an issue with causation or damages. I had edited my response after I had read other people's reactions and it was advice for a different approach if the patient or parent did not feel as strongly and perhaps just wanted to make sure the problem was addressed in house. I think it was brave and responsible for the Dr to come forward and admit the mistake. The course of action to take is up to the affected party. And if she wants to sue I wouldn't think it to be a hysterical response.

It isn't malpractice and it isn't battery. I could not imagine a responsible attorney EVEN considering this, but who knows in this ridiculous day and age. One can sue a ham sandwich! If this is a trend that becomes more prevalent, the public will deserve what it gets; fewer health care workers willing to get up and go to work every day and take the risks of caring for a litigious public.

 

[DawnCt1]

Yes I do make mistakes but mine don't have the potential to kill or harm patients

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Then consider yourself "fortunate" that you did not pursue a career that demands perfection 110% of the time. Consider the consequences to patient care if care givers faced a vengeful, punitive patient population every time they put their uniforms on and went to work.

 

[Darsa]

It's amazing (and sad) to see how quick people are to jump all over the medmal bandwagon nowadays. The calls I get each day with people claiming they have the perfect case, and all the money they could get from it...

If the girl was harmed in any way, shape or form I can CERTAINLY see legal action. If she wasn't the incident should be reported and noted, and something should be done to assure it doesn't happen in the future, of course. I can't really think of any attorneys we have that would actually take this on as a medmal case OR a criminal case.

One can sue a ham sandwich!

 

[Deb in IA]

If the girl was harmed in any way, shape or form I can CERTAINLY see legal action. If she wasn't the incident should be reported and noted, and something should be done to assure it doesn't happen in the future, of course. I can't really think of any attorneys we have that would actually take this on as a medmal case OR a criminal case.

Wow, this IS a special day! The medical and the legal professions actually AGREE!!!!

 

[princess momma]

Nurses make errors every day. But, doctors take responsibility for their mistakes. Not fair, in my opinion.

Nurses do make mistakes every day, as do doctors, but I don't see how doctors take responsibility for the errors of nurses. It wouldn't be fair, if that were the case.

 

[luvmy3]

Then consider yourself "fortunate" that you did not pursue a career that demands perfection 110% of the time. Consider the consequences to patient care if care givers faced a vengeful, punitive patient population every time they put their uniforms on and went to work.

I realize that you may be a bit biased since your dh is an MD, forgive me if I'm mistaken, but not every patient is vengeful or looking for their ticket to sue. I never said anything other than reporting it, if you had read my posts I said I didn't think she should be punished, or fired ONLY that a record of the incident be somewhere other than her file at her place of employment. I also never said anything like it being malpractice or battery.

BTW doctor's and nurses choose to go into that profession and if they aren't willing to give 110% perfection, or expect that from themselves when they are treating patients in that field then they should have picked a different career choice.

 

[Muushka]

I disagree. It is most definitely a battery. The only way it wouldn't be is if she had given knowing consent to the vacine. It certainly doesn't sound like that's what happened here. In a battery damages are presumed the only issue would be how much. Since there arguably was no lasting harm done here she may only get nominal damages. I also think she most likely has a valid malpractice claim. There was clearly a duty of care and that was breached. Once again there might be an issue with causation or damages. I had edited my response after I had read other people's reactions and it was advice for a different approach if the patient or parent did not feel as strongly and perhaps just wanted to make sure the problem was addressed in house. I think it was brave and responsible for the Dr to come forward and admit the mistake. The course of action to take is up to the affected party. And if she wants to sue I wouldn't think it to be a hysterical response.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why medical costs have gone out of control. Malpractice insurance. The big winner in this conversation will be the lawyers.

As I am about to re-enter the medical profession, what I am reading on this thread makes me wish I had chosen a career that involved money or real estate.

There are times when it is totally appropriate to sue a doctor or medical health care professional. This is NOT one of them.

 

[donald&daisy]

It is "most definitely" NOT.

LEGAL definition of battery:

A crime consisting of physical contact that is intended to harm someone. Unintentional harmful contact is not battery, no mater how careless the behavior or how severe the injury. A fist fight is a common battery; being hit by a wild pitch in a baseball game is not.

You are making a common mistake. The "intent" requirement goes to the intent to touch NOT the intent to be harmful. Here the person who gave the shot intended to touch the patient against her consent (unless she gave informed consent for the gaurdasil).A wild pitch is not intended to hit someone so that is not a battery--thats correct.

 

[donald&daisy]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why medical costs have gone out of control. Malpractice insurance. The big winner in this conversation will be the lawyers.

As I am about to re-enter the medical profession, what I am reading on this thread makes me wish I had chosen a career that involved money or real estate.

There are times when it is totally appropriate to sue a doctor or medical health care professional. This is NOT one of them.

I'm not advocating that she should sue just that she may. As someone about to take the bar exam I agree that the justice system is flawed. In this particular case I wouldn't want to take it to trial(however if the evidence was there and the client wanted to I would). If the patient was truly upset I would suggest a mediation between all invovled parties.

 

[dismom2]

I would at least want this 'mistake' documented. The girl could have ended up pregnant, and I have issues with the Gardasil shot---I would never get it for my child. But, you mentioned that your friend was going to talk to the doctor about getting it anyway, so in that case.... actually getting that shot is no big deal. The girl is not pregnant so I would not pursue any drastic measures.

 

[DawnCt1]

I realize that you may be a bit biased since your dh is an MD, forgive me if I'm mistaken, but not every patient is vengeful or looking for their ticket to sue. I never said anything other than reporting it, if you had read my posts I said I didn't think she should be punished, or fired ONLY that a record of the incident be somewhere other than her file at her place of employment. I also never said anything like it being malpractice or battery.

BTW doctor's and nurses choose to go into that profession and if they aren't willing to give 110% perfection, or expect that from themselves when they are treating patients in that field then they should have picked a different career choice.

Actually DH's profession has nothing to do with my opinion. I am a nurse and as such, realize that all healthcare workers are more than willing to give a 110% perfection but it isn't always humanly possible. We ALL do our very best. If absolutely perfection were the standard, there would be no patient care. There is "no other place" to file the incident unless a formal complaint with an investigation is pursued. Filing such incidents are not standard practice for dealing with unintentional errors.

 

[DawnCt1]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why medical costs have gone out of control. Malpractice insurance. The big winner in this conversation will be the lawyers.

As I am about to re-enter the medical profession, what I am reading on this thread makes me wish I had chosen a career that involved money or real estate.

There are times when it is totally appropriate to sue a doctor or medical health care professional. This is NOT one of them.

ITA, and will sadly not be addressed in this brave new world we are pursuing, but I will stop before I digress into the realm of politics.

 

[Deb in IA]

You are making a common mistake. The "intent" requirement goes to the intent to touch NOT the intent to be harmful.

You are most definitely wrong.

The intent to HARM is the LEGAL DEFINITION.


This is a great site. You should check it out.

http://dictionary.law.com/

 

[Deb in IA]

Once again,

battery
n. the actual intentional striking of someone, with intent to harm, or in a "rude and insolent manner" even if the injury is slight. Negligent or careless unintentional contact is not battery no matter how great the harm. Battery is a crime and also the basis for a lawsuit as a civil wrong if there is damage. It is often coupled with "assault" (which does not require actual touching) in "assault and battery."

 

[ReneeA]

I am a nurse and as such, realize that all healthcare workers are more than willing to give a 110% perfection but it isn't always humanly possible. We ALL do our very best. If absolutely perfection were the standard, there would be no patient care. There is "no other place" to file the incident unless a formal complaint with an investigation is pursued. Filing such incidents are not standard practice for dealing with unintentional errors.

Totally agree with Dawn. There is not one human on this earth that is 110% infallible. Not one. As a nurse, you do your absolute best at all times, but we are still human.

What would people do if not for those that choose this profession? Someone has to step up to the plate, put their livelyhood on the line to care for those that are ill.

 

[donald&daisy]

You are most definitely wrong.

The intent to HARM is the LEGAL DEFINITION.


This is a great site. You should check it out.

http://dictionary.law.com/

Thanks for the helpful tip! I will make sure to consult it and not to rely on my past three years of education. Seriously though, I don't think this is a strong case I was just giving my personal opinion that this constituted a battery. Clearly you disagree. That's ok (with me at least).

 

[TomLovesBecky]

As a nurse, the mistake is a very serious one and yes I would feel like absolute doo-doo if I were the one who made such a big mistake! I once gave someone 10 mg of something instead of 20 mg and I had nightmares for a week (thank God no harm was done, I discovered my error the next day so he wasn't underdosed for long). That's why I am obsessive about double and triple checking orders and labels, I am very worried about medication errors since they are so incredibly common in all medical settings. The office should definitely review their procedures to make sure this doesn't happen again, there are a lot of safeguards they can employ to greatly reduce the chance of error (procedures for labeling, storing, paperwork, checklists, etc.). This incident should be taken very seriously, but it seems it has been since they came clean and apologized up front as soon as the error was discovered. As a parent, I would take a deep breath and say to myself, okay, so the worst didn't happen. She's not pregnant, praise the Lord, and now I can have a discussion with the doctor about Gardasil, which quite honestly I don't recommend for everyone (my daughter doesn't have it) but I DO recommend for a sexually-active 17 year old!!!!!!!! She is the exact demographic in need of this shot, IMO. And as the other poster said, talk with my daughter about being very aware of what she's being given, what treatment has been ordered/is being delivered, etc. When life hands you lemons, make lemonade if at all possible! And no real physical "harm" was done to the patient, in this situation. It could have turned out so much worse, so as long as the issue is addressed properly I would not go filing a complaint. JMO.

 

[Galahad]

Wow, this IS a special day! The medical and the legal professions actually AGREE!!!!

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

I agree with Dawn's posts and all the others like them. Sorry but I'm feeling to lazy to go back and quote everyone.

I also firmly believe that at 17 the girl should have been aware of what she was getting. Is the Gardasil shot given in the behind? If it isn't, that should have been the first clue that something was wrong. If it was then I guess it would have definitely been harder for her to know something was wrong.

I know when I was in the hospital at 16 my DMom checked every day with the nurses as to what meds I was expecting. Before she left every night she made sure I knew. One night a nurse came in and shined a flashlight in my eyes, which promptly woke me up. Anyway, she was about to inject something into my IV. I informed her that I wasn't expecting any meds and asked what she was giving me. Quick look at the syringe and said "Oops, wrong room", turned and walked away.

I always make sure DD knows what she is taking, why she is taking it, how long and the dosage. Does she remember or care? Probably not as she is only 9 with no major illnesses but I do make sure she is aware of everything she is putting in her body. That kind of education needs to start at a young age and not when they are on the verge of adulthood.

 

[TomLovesBecky]

As a nurse, the mistake is a very serious one and yes I would feel like absolute doo-doo if I were the one who made such a big mistake! I once gave someone 10 mg of something instead of 20 mg and I had nightmares for a week (thank God no harm was done, I discovered my error the next day so he wasn't underdosed for long). That's why I am obsessive about double and triple checking orders and labels, I am very worried about medication errors since they are so incredibly common in all medical settings. The office should definitely review their procedures to make sure this doesn't happen again, there are a lot of safeguards they can employ to greatly reduce the chance of error (procedures for labeling, storing, paperwork, checklists, etc.). This incident should be taken very seriously, but it seems it has been since they came clean and apologized up front as soon as the error was discovered. As a parent, I would take a deep breath and say to myself, okay, so the worst didn't happen. She's not pregnant, praise the Lord, and now I can have a discussion with the doctor about Gardasil, which quite honestly I don't recommend for everyone (my daughter doesn't have it) but I DO recommend for a sexually-active 17 year old!!!!!!!! She is the exact demographic in need of this shot, IMO. And as the other poster said, talk with my daughter about being very aware of what she's being given, what treatment has been ordered/is being delivered, etc. When life hands you lemons, make lemonade if at all possible! And no real physical "harm" was done to the patient, in this situation. It could have turned out so much worse, so as long as the issue is addressed properly I would not go filing a complaint. JMO.

I am speaking from a Dr.'s perspective. We don't stock Depoprovera in our office, so, the patient needs to get it from a pharmacy. I write the original prescription for one year's time, and actually, patients are free to come in for their Depoprovera at their convenience, even if I don't happen to be in the office. We do stock Guardisil for those patients whose insurance will cover it.

I once spent about 45 minutes trying to figure out just what immunizations a particular nurse gave a specific patient. I ended up needing to call the pharmaceutical company and have them look up what was given by lot number, which is unique. Needless to say, that nurse was disciplined within our practice, and the entire nursing staff had a refresher on correct documentation of immunizations. Improper documentation is a pet peeve of mine, but, fortunately, with most immunizations, getting an extra one won't really harm a patient (unless they are allergic) and might actually save a visit sometime down the road.

In my opinion, sexually active teens should be using condoms, to prevent from STD's, which Depoprovera won't do. There are failures of every type of contraception. I think it is a shame that a person who had a good relationship with a particular physician would even consider suing the doctor because a nurse made an error. Nurses make errors every day. But, doctors take responsibility for their mistakes. Not fair, in my opinion.

I agree with you, Delilah. I didn't mention it in my other post, but what the heck is a 17 y.o. doing on Depo when she needs to be using condoms?!?!? I would also be very concerned about a sexually active 17 y.o. dd. Very, very concerned. To each their own, but those are more harmful decisions than this error was!