WWYD Drinking while driving.

[Pea-n-Me]

OK, I've got to ask, how?

Are you talking about legalities or defining alcoholism?

Because I think the former is clear wiithout re-explaining it. (See post #61)

The latter is less clear to most people.

 

[TAX GUY]

Drinking while driving is illegal in 49 states. Only Mississippi allows a small amount to be consumed while driving.

As adults, we tell our teens over and over again to never, ever get in a car with somebody drinking and driving. As adults, I feel we should also walk the walk. What kind of example are we setting for our young drivers if we say, "meh, one beer while driving is ok?" Drinking while driving should never be ok. And while there were no teens in this one particular situation, the pervasive attitude that it is ok as long as it is just a beer and it is no problem getting in a car with somebody drinking will be noticed eventually by our new, young drivers.

We also teach them to never go with or talk to strangers either, but as adults we do just that, depending on the situation.

 

[Hrhpd]

We also teach them to never go with or talk to strangers either, but as adults we do just that, depending on the situation.

Last I checked, talking to strangers is not illegal.

Drinking while behind the wheel of a vehicle is. At least everywhere but Mississippi.

 

[sam_gordon]

Drinking while driving is illegal in 49 states. Only Mississippi allows a small amount to be consumed while driving.

As adults, we tell our teens over and over again to never, ever get in a car with somebody drinking and driving. As adults, I feel we should also walk the walk. What kind of example are we setting for our young drivers if we say, "meh, one beer while driving is ok?" Drinking while driving should never be ok. And while there were no teens in this one particular situation, the pervasive attitude that it is ok as long as it is just a beer and it is no problem getting in a car with somebody drinking will be noticed eventually by our new, young drivers.

And what does any of that have to do with whether the guy is an alcoholic or not? That was the point of my post... that we've heard this guy had one drink and all of a sudden he's an alcoholic.

Are you talking about legalities or defining alcoholism?

Because I think the former is clear wiithout re-explaining it. (See post #61)

The latter is less clear to most people.

You said the "celebration" that I mentioned is different. I was curious what you saw as being different.

 

[TAX GUY]

Last I checked, talking to strangers is not illegal.

Drinking while behind the wheel of a vehicle is. At least everywhere but Mississippi.

OK, but I was replying to the part about teaching kids to never get in a car with someone drinking and driving. So, if its the legality of it, do e also teach them not to be with persons that break the law? The one often used here on the DIS is speeding. Have you or your spouse NEVER exceeded the posted peed limits? Even by one MPH?

ETA: I'm not saying how I feel is the way everyone should feel. Obviously some people overreact and others are far too passive.

 

[3Gsandme]

If I drink one beer in less than 30-45 minutes I can feel mild effects from it which means my judgement is impaired.

I think you would be the exception, not the rule and this guy, by the OP's description, is a BIG dude. I'm married to a BIG dude. He could consume four beers in an hour and be safe to drive. If you're a tiny female than yes, you may be affected after one drink depending on different factors, but the person who can only drink one drink and be impaired is still not common.

OK, lets recap....

OP's DH and the other guy have been car pooling (read as this was not the FIRST trip). There is no mention of the previous commutes that the perp had a or multiple beers on the way to or from the job site. This sounds like the FIRST time, and I assume he was a little more comfortable since it was HIS truck.

Those details would NOT indicate the guy is an alcoholic nor that he can't control himself to wait to have a beer. There is NO indication this is a pattern (or assuming the DH always tells his DW of all the horrific law breaking things this guy does, he certainly would have disclosed this guy cracked a beer in DH's car or smelled of beer on the way home. None of those were disclosed. It's ok to put the pitch forks back in the barn. There's no need to jump to all these assumptions of this guy being a raging alcoholic that must drink all day long. If OP's DH feels by this one time that he needs to find alternatives for transportation, fine. I personally would think its an over reaction but those are MY feelings and ones I would be ok with. Even if there was a time or two in the future, I still wouldn't see cause for alarm. If it was daily and constant, then I'd have a different feeling. In this case, it was ONE beer in ONE instance.

I agree. I'm not comfortable with people consuming any alcohol when driving, so I wouldn't have been comfortable with him drinking in the car. I wouldn't have minded him drinking the beer and then driving because I don't think there's any actual danger from a 300lb dude drinking one beer and then driving.

Talked more about it with DH. This guy has chugged one back in the parking lot a few times before getting into DH truck. I asked if he thought he was an alcoholic. My DH says no they have worked and stayed at dry camps and he hasn't had a problem.
But I guess his wife won't let him have beer in the house. So maybe he has drank too much too often?

Or maybe she's a shrew who doesn't like alcohol in the house. Maybe she was the alcoholic.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

And what does any of that have to do with whether the guy is an alcoholic or not? That was the point of my post... that we've heard this guy had one drink and all of a sudden he's an alcoholic.


You said the "celebration" that I mentioned is different. I was curious what you saw as being different.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say. I think my posts have been clear. I'll let someone else take a shot at it.

 

[NHdisneylover]

But everyone went straight to being "unable" to make it home without a beer. No one even considered that maybe he just wanted one that day (one, not six. that day, not everyday). Maybe it was unusually hot, maybe it had been a long day at work, maybe he knew if he had one at home he'd have a lecture from his wife to accompany it, maybe he was heading straight out again after getting home and wouldn't have time to sit down and unwind with a beer, maybe he just had a taste for it. The jump straight to extremes tends to happen a LOT on the DIS when it comes to talking about alcohol - post about alcohol in virtually any situation outside of adult-only events and you'll have someone suggest that you may have a problem because you "can't" get through whatever normal event you're talking about without drinking.

Some people jumped there, but plenty did not. I don't think he was unable to drive without drinking--but I DO think the fact that he chugged a beer in a few seconds while driving, for the first time that he was the driver in this carpool, and completely disregarded his passenger's concerns, given that drinking while driving IS taboo in current culture this says the person is not someone who cares about the comfort or perceived safety of those in his vehicle, and this is a big deal and would stop me from riding with him (and texting would do the same) (and OP indicates she is in Canada where I believe it is taken more seriously than in the US---thus the fact that Americans with DUI convictions are often not allowed into Canada--as it is considered a felony there, always from my understanding)

We also teach them to never go with or talk to strangers either, but as adults we do just that, depending on the situation.

I always thought that was an odd thing to teach children--you cannot get through life without talking to strangers on a near daily basis. Besides, a child is much more likely to be harmed by someone they know than a stranger and giving them the idea that strangers are to be feared and friends and relatives are always to be trusted is harmful on multiple levels.

I never told my kids that. We did talk about when it was safe to go with other people, what was appropriate for an adult to say or do with a child, etc. Things that applies to ALL people.

 

[sam_gordon]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say. I think my posts have been clear. I'll let someone else take a shot at it.

I'll try one more time. Here are the two posts, mine, and then what you posted in response.

I've been on work sites where when the job was done, a cooler of beer is provided to "celebrate". Everyone (who chooses to) has a cold one, then gets in their car and drives home. Does that mean they're all alcoholics? This is not a daily thing or even a monthly thing. If there's no beer, no one complains.

Sam, I think a celebration as you described is a different story altogether.

So I'm simply asking what is "different" between the OP's description and what I described?

I'm not comfortable with people consuming any alcohol when driving, so I wouldn't have been comfortable with him drinking in the car. I wouldn't have minded him drinking the beer and then driving because I don't think there's any actual danger from a 300lb dude drinking one beer and then driving.

So if he drinks a beer and immediately gets in the car and drives, it's OK, but if he drinks the beer while driving, it's bad? Can you explain that logic?

 

[luvsJack]

Sooooo. . I am guessing that since some of you are comparing this to what we teach our teen agers---I am assuming its safe to say that none of you drive over the speed limit, look at your phone or the radio or at anything that may take your attention from the road, you never come to a "rolling stop" at a stop sign, never speed up to get through a yellow light, or any of the other dozens of things that may be just outside of a specified law and would be things we teach our teen drivers not to do.

The man drank a beer. Now, it may be illegal in his area to have the open container. That does not mean he was over the legal limit of drinking and would go to jail for a dui, have his truck impounded or any of that. He would get a ticket for "open container".

Look, I have big issues with drinking and driving. But the guy drank one beer. He could have just eaten, or maybe he didn't. He could have a high tolerance, or maybe he doesn't. He may drink 10 more when he gets home or he may only drink the one, we don't know. His wife may not allow beer in the house--that could have NOTHING to do with him and everything to do with how she grew up or its possible SHE is a recovering alcoholic and he chooses not to have it around her. There are a billion different scenarios that could go with this man but the fact is we don't know any of it.

The celebration that Sam described, is still drinking a beer and getting in a vehicle. It is NO different. NONE. Going by the bar and having a beer on the way home, drinking one beer and leaving is NO different. NONE. The only difference would be the "open container" law and that is a ticketed offense in most areas and isn't even close to the same thing as a DUI.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'll try one more time. Here are the two posts, mine, and then what you posted in response.

So I'm simply asking what is "different" between the OP's description and what I described?

Again, my response would be the exact same one i gave Joedplumber in post #61.

Your posts seem cryptic. It might just be easier to say what you want to say then to try to grill me on what I mean.

 

[sam_gordon]

Again, my response would be the exact same one i gave Joedplumber in post #61.

Well, here's post 61...

That is the issue. If you enjoy a beer on the train on the ride home and your blood alcohol level is below the legal limit for where you're driving, then you're good.

States with Open Container Laws do make the distinction of a driver who is working, like a limo or taxi driver, being exempt from the law, and types of vehicles like a motor home with open containers being ok in the living area. And police officers can generally tell if a can is fresh or old, and whether a driver is intoxicated, etc.

But nobody can have an open container in a regular car, otherwise. If you were to take a bottle of wine home from a restaurant, say, it would either need to be in the trunk, or in the case of an SUV, way in the back, re-corked and bagged, with receipt showing, from the restaurant.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2010/01/17/clarifying_what_constitutes_an_open_container/

I guess you're saying you see a difference solely in WHEN you drink. If it's before getting in the car, that's fine, but not while you're driving. I get having an open container is against the law. But I don't see how it is any different when it comes to impairment of a driver.

Your posts seem cryptic. It might just be easier to say what you want to say then to try to grill me on what I mean.

Wow, I apologize for "grilling" you. I was simply looking for clarification of a statement you made.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Sooooo. . I am guessing that since some of you are comparing this to what we teach our teen agers---I am assuming its safe to say that none of you drive over the speed limit, look at your phone or the radio or at anything that may take your attention from the road, you never come to a "rolling stop" at a stop sign, never speed up to get through a yellow light, or any of the other dozens of things that may be just outside of a specified law and would be things we teach our teen drivers not to do.

The man drank a beer. Now, it may be illegal in his area to have the open container. That does not mean he was over the legal limit of drinking and would go to jail for a dui, have his truck impounded or any of that. He would get a ticket for "open container".

Look, I have big issues with drinking and driving. But the guy drank one beer. He could have just eaten, or maybe he didn't. He could have a high tolerance, or maybe he doesn't. He may drink 10 more when he gets home or he may only drink the one, we don't know. His wife may not allow beer in the house--that could have NOTHING to do with him and everything to do with how she grew up or its possible SHE is a recovering alcoholic and he chooses not to have it around her. There are a billion different scenarios that could go with this man but the fact is we don't know any of it.

The celebration that Sam described, is still drinking a beer and getting in a vehicle. It is NO different. NONE. Going by the bar and having a beer on the way home, drinking one beer and leaving is NO different. NONE. The only difference would be the "open container" law and that is a ticketed offense in most areas and isn't even close to the same thing as a DUI.

Do you live with an Open Container Law?

Here, it may or may not lead to a DUI depending on what actions police take if you're found to be drinking in your car. If there IS evidence of drinking or impairment it could lead to field sobriety tests and if you gamble on whether or not "a beer or two" pushes you over the legal limit and you lose, then whoops, there goes your livelihood (if you're dependent on your car to work, which most people are). Not to mention LOTS of money on fines, surcharges, classes, lawyers, court costs, transportation, etc., as well as public humiliation, marital strife, you name it. So yeah, it is a big deal here, and apparently where the OP and other posters live, too.

Back in the 70s it was common to see people drinking while driving here. Today, it is rare here. YMMV

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Well, here's post 61...

I guess you're saying you see a difference solely in WHEN you drink. If it's before getting in the car, that's fine, but not while you're driving. I get having an open container is against the law. But I don't see how it is any different when it comes to impairment of a driver.


Wow, I apologize for "grilling" you. I was simply looking for clarification of a statement you made.

So impairment was what you were trying to get at. OK.

I don't think I said anything about the impairment issue in my posts other than my response in 61.

I don't have an issue with people driving below the legal limit. So your celebration would likely be fine, just like Joe's beer on the train.

I, personally, don't drive after I drink unless several hours have passed (and then I'm only having one glass of wine, usually at a family holiday). I'm lucky, I have a DH who doesn't drink much so it's not really an issue for me. As I said before, when I went out drinking recently with friends, we had a designated driver. We'll do it the same way again soon when we plan another.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm curious where one comes up with a beer to crack open on the trip home? Did he bring it in a cooler? Did he stop at a convenience store to get one?

Best questions on the thread.

 

[luvsJack]

Do you live with an Open Container Law?

Here, it may or may not lead to a DUI depending on what actions police take if you're found to be drinking in your car. If there IS evidence of drinking or impairment it could lead to field sobriety tests and if you gamble on whether or not "a beer or two" pushes you over the legal limit and you lose, then whoops, there goes your livelihood (if you're dependent on your car to work, which most people are). Not to mention LOTS of money on fines, surcharges, classes, lawyers, court costs, transportation, etc., as well as public humiliation, marital strife, you name it. So yeah, it is a big deal here, and apparently where the OP and other posters live, too.

Back in the 70s it was common to see people drinking while driving here. Today, it is rare here. YMMV

Its not common here either. And of course its a big deal if you are driving under the influence anywhere. The open container gives them reason to test sobriety.

The "legal limit" here, is determined by a breathalyzer. You breathe in, it tells you how much you have had to drink. One beer is NOT going to push someone to that level. Just not going to happen. Its not enough alcohol. Now, they may do a field sobriety test and they may take him down to do the breathalyzer but if one beer was going to make him fail a field sobriety test, don't you think the OP's husband would have noticed its intolerance for alcohol long before now? He has drank around him before.

 

[CPanther95]

Do you live with an Open Container Law?

Here, it may or may not lead to a DUI depending on what actions police take if you're found to be drinking in your car. If there IS evidence of drinking or impairment it could lead to field sobriety tests and if you gamble on whether or not "a beer or two" pushes you over the legal limit and you lose, then whoops, there goes your livelihood (if you're dependent on your car to work, which most people are). Not to mention LOTS of money on fines, surcharges, classes, lawyers, court costs, transportation, etc., as well as public humiliation, marital strife, you name it. So yeah, it is a big deal here, and apparently where the OP and other posters live, too.

Back in the 70s it was common to see people drinking while driving here. Today, it is rare here. YMMV

1 beer isn't a gamble. None of those ramifications mentioned have anything to do with consuming a single beer for the vast majority of normal sized humans. In this particular case, 300 lb man should only reach the "possibly impaired" level of >.04 until his 3rd beer - and even that is only if he downed all 3 in less than 1 minute. After a minute of waiting he'll be back down to .04. A single beer puts him at .014. That's about the same alcohol level as a 100 lb. woman would have if she drank 1.5 oz of wine.

Just like if you drink a bottle of water, you aren't taking a gamble on water poisoning either.

 

[3Gsandme]

I'll try one more time. Here are the two posts, mine, and then what you posted in response.




So I'm simply asking what is "different" between the OP's description and what I described?


So if he drinks a beer and immediately gets in the car and drives, it's OK, but if he drinks the beer while driving, it's bad? Can you explain that logic?

No. Not really. I don't think he'd be impaired but in every state I've lived in its absolutely illegal and while I'm not bothered by soeedin, for instance, I wouldn't be comfortable with someone drinking while driving.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

1 beer isn't a gamble. None of those ramifications mentioned have anything to do with consuming a single beer for the vast majority of normal sized humans. In this particular case, 300 lb man should only reach the "possibly impaired" level of >.04 until his 3rd beer - and even that is only if he downed all 3 in less than 1 minute. After a minute of waiting he'll be back down to .04. A single beer puts him at .014. That's about the same alcohol level as a 100 lb. woman would have if she drank 1.5 oz of wine.

Just like if you drink a bottle of water, you aren't taking a gamble on water poisoning either.

Is there any science to back this up? Not an expert in this area whatsoever, but it seems to me there could be a lot of variation. People who have liver or kidney disease, for instance, might metabollize alchohol differently. What about other medical issues and/or medications they're taking. Of course there will be differences for size, gender, etc. What about co-interaction with other substances as far as impairment goes? (Obviously, weed or opiates won't increase the blood alcohol level, but their presence with alcohol will have a synergenistic effect.) I just don't know that it's as cut and dry as you're making it out to be, but it's not really an argument I'm interested in pursuing. I would like to see the science, though. (Yes, will look it up myself later when I have time.)

 

[CPanther95]

Is there any science to back this up? Not an expert in this area whatsoever, but it seems to me there could be a lot of variation. People who have liver or kidney disease, for instance, might metabollize alchohol differently. What about other medical issues and/or medications they're taking. Of course there will be differences for size, gender, etc. What about co-interaction with other substances as far as impairment goes? (Obviously, weed or opiates won't increase the blood alcohol level, but their presence with alcohol will have a synergenistic effect.) I just don't know that it's as cut and dry as you're making it out to be, but it's not really an argument I'm interested in pursuing. I would like to see the science, though. (Yes, will look it up myself later when I have time.)

Yes, plenty of science and gender, size do have an impact.

As far as the other hypotheticals that aren't part of this particular case - yes obviously there could be a wide variety of potential issues. The OP didn't mention that he was high on weed, taking horse tranquilizers, has any rare liver diseases, etc.
Other possible mitigating factors:
1) Allergic reactions to the aluminum can
2) A brain aneurysm that is being held at bay by a constant amount of stress and once the stress is relieved by drinking a beer - it causes a catastrophic reaction.
3) That extra 12 oz of weight added to his 300 lb body could be just enough extra weight to cause a failure in a faulty restraint system.

... but a 12 oz beer still has a fixed amount of actual alcohol in it (0.6 oz if it is a 5% beer) - and it can only raise the percentage of alcohol in the body's entire volume of blood by a fixed amount.