WTH Mel??

[eclectics]

Just a suggestion, if we...as ADULTS, don't want our kids buying into the idea that celebrities are powerful and worthy of following...perhaps we should begin with ourselves.

(prepared for the flames, as always)

No flames from me. Excellent goal. One last comment, I'm wondering how many who are chastising the people for being too hard on Mel Gibson had no problem whatsoever with chastising Natalie Maines and The Dixie Chicks for their comments? Aren't they "just a celebrity" too? Why shouldn't their comments also just get a "shrug" and a "so what"? My turn to get the flame suit on.

 

[lucyblondecat]

its the parents responsibility to steer their kids in the direction of who they should or shouldn't admire.

Like Mel Gibson's father did for him?

Sad thing is, most racists learn their behavior from home, at a very young age, and its only the very strong that break the cycle.

 

[MorganLeFey]

there is a difference, albeit a minor one.

any time a celebrity opens his/her mouth and says something controversial, he/she will have an influence on what others think. And he/she should also expect some media attention. whether welcome or not. and he/she should expect people who disagree with his/her position to decide that they won't support the celebrity's works any more.

so of course when the Dixie Chicks criticize GWB, they can expect a firestorm. the smae firestrom that Gibson can expect from his faux pas.

the difference is the content. the Dixie Chicks' comments may have been rude, but we don't condemn political discussion of our leaders -- in fact, we encourage it. Gibson's comments were bigoted and hate-filled, the type of comment we as a society cannot condone.

 

[Deb in IA]

So, if Mel has said, "All the wars in the world were started by REPUBLICANS", that would have been OK?

 

[MorganLeFey]

So, if Mel has said, "All the wars in the world were started by REPUBLICANS", that would have been OK?

it would have been factually wrong, it would have been stupid....

but is there really much difference betweenthat and "the Republican party's position on Iraq led us into an unneccessary and costly war"?

the woman from the dixie Chicks (sorry, I'm not a fan, don't know her name) said something to the effect of "I'm ashamed Bush comes from Texas." that was rude. but if she had said "I strongly disagree with Bush's politics," I'd have no issue -- in fact, I'd agree with her.

 

[eclectics]

there is a difference, albeit a minor one.

any time a celebrity opens his/her mouth and says something controversial, he/she will have an influence on what others think. And he/she should also expect some media attention. whether welcome or not. and he/she should expect people who disagree with his/her position to decide that they won't support the celebrity's works any more.

so of course when the Dixie Chicks criticize GWB, they can expect a firestorm. the smae firestrom that Gibson can expect from his faux pas.

the difference is the content. the Dixie Chicks' comments may have been rude, but we don't condemn political discussion of our leaders -- in fact, we encourage it. Gibson's comments were bigoted and hate-filled, the type of comment we as a society cannot condone.

Yes, I realize the differences, but I was addressing those who say we shouldn't give Celebrities comments on anything a second thought. I just wonder how many keep silent when one of them criticizes something near and dear to them.

 

[poohandwendy]

no, what I am saying is that others have influence on my daughter and that she came by her opinion from something other than what I taught her. with the stem cell research thing, both sides of the issue were thoroughly discussed in class, and Jen never asked me my opinion.

I do not worship celebrities, but nevertheless they hold sway over both of my daughters -- mostly on superficial things such as fashion and music.

many people in my generation formed their political opinions, in part, because of what rock stars had to say. would the anti war protests of the Vietnam era have been the same without the rock subculture embracing an anti war stance?

do I think we're going to see a rash of teens committing anti-Semitic acts just because gibson mouthed off? probably not. but do I think that a kid who is prone to vandalism might choose to draw swastikas instead of his usual four-letter-word grafitti on the side of the school building? yeah, it's likely to happen.

Ok, I will agree with that.

However, to be fair, if we are going to discuss the 'ripple effect' we also have to include the positive dialogue that has started because of the words MG spoke. (like right here, and at dinner tables across the nation...and maybe the world) I suspect there will be MORE positive dialogue that comes from this than hatred.

I am not, by any means, suggesting that MG did us any favors. What he did was wrong, on many levels. But, I am of the mindset of making lemonade out of lemons. Things like this are opportunitiesto discuss bigotry, alcoholism, drinking and driving, the fact that celebrities are not immortals or worthy of following.


That is the approach I take as a parent...as a human being.

 

[poohandwendy]

Yes, I realize the differences, but I was addressing those who say we shouldn't give Celebrities comments on anything a second thought. I just wonder how many keep silent when one of them criticizes something near and dear to them.

Not one person here said anything about not giving this a 'second thought' (we are discussing it, no?)...I, personally, think we need to keep it in perspective and not give MG more power than he should have.

 

[poohandwendy]

No flames from me. Excellent goal. One last comment, I'm wondering how many who are chastising the people for being too hard on Mel Gibson had no problem whatsoever with chastising Natalie Maines and The Dixie Chicks for their comments? Aren't they "just a celebrity" too? Why shouldn't their comments also just get a "shrug" and a "so what"? My turn to get the flame suit on.

LOL, and my turn to agree. I think what we need to remember is that everyone in this country, at least, has the right to say things we may not agree with. Now, as part of the community, we either condemn them or agree with them. Celebrities have a platform...so they are heard by more people. But, we take away their political power when we say "Look, you are not a leader or a politician...you are a singer/actor....blow it out your butt, we are not listening."

And there is a cynical part of me that wonders if some of these celebrities are not just throwing out their vitriol for the media attention it brings them? I mean, what better way to get your name/face splashed on magazines and newspapers than to do something shocking. Sure, it is negative attention. But celebrities are weird bunch, IMO. Not something I would put past them or their PR people.

 

[eclectics]

Not one person here said anything about not giving this a 'second thought' (we are discussing it, no?)...I, personally, think we need to keep it in perspective and not give MG more power than he should have.

I sort of went off into "generalityland" and wasn't only referring to this particular discussion and MG, but again, your point is taken.

 

[poohandwendy]

I sort of went off into "generalityland" and wasn't only referring to this particular discussion and MG, but again, your point is taken.

LOL, no problem...I do that sometimes too and I understand what you mean in a general sense. I do think people who shrug it off are more likely doing so because they think what he said was stupid and not worthy of attention.

 

[DancingBear]

I think it is very UNFAIR for anyone to be criticized and discriminated against without knowing what that religion TEACHES! Catholicism does not teach it is okay to move pedophile priests and the use of unnatural birth-control does not mean that NO NATURAL birth-control can be used - a little bit of a difference (say self-control).

I know what Catholicism teaches on these issues.

You are seemingly unable to make the distinctions. I never said Catholicism TEACHES that it is okay to move pedophile priests. I said someone might criticize the Church for its actual past actions in doing so in certain circumstances, and that would not constitute a slur against "Catholicism." It would be wrong to say all priests are pedophiles. It would not be wrong to criticize how the Church sometimes addressed complaints of pedophila against certain priests by moving them to other parishes or positions within the Church, rather than fully investigating the complaints and disciplining the priests.

I know that Catholicism does not prohibit NATURAL birth control. If you think it's necessary, I'll clarify and say that an activist might state on a TV show that Catholicism's prohibition on the use of condoms, the pill and other birth control devices contributes to the population problems in third world countries. It doesn't change the point at all, which is that such a comment is not a slur against Catholics or Catholicism.

 

[cardaway]

you made a very strong statement that the parents get the credit or the blame, and that what a celebrity says has no bearing on what the child does...

Yes I did because I believe it and it's my point in this discussion. My strong comment didn't make it any less rude to insert the idea that I wasn't talking about the real world.

 

[cardaway]

My main point is still the impact of the celebrity and who is ultimately responsible. IMO the imact is limited, and when it comes to kids, the parents alone are responsible for the long term affect.

IMO we can't go on about how meaningless some celeb opinions are and then turn around and say Mel must do anything but apologize for his comments. Celeb opinions are golden or worthless, you can't have it both ways.

I also find it shocking how often the people defending the Jewish side of some recent threads have inserted hateful and rude comments. Given the topic of this thread it's also pretty ironic. I haven't seen anybody defending the other side insert comments about not being in the real world, being ignorant, naive, and any other comment beyond just discussing the issue at hand.

 

[poohandwendy]

LOL, my vote is worthless. Well, worth no more than any other layman. (celebs opinions)

 

[MorganLeFey]

Yes I did because I believe it and it's my point in this discussion. My strong comment didn't make it any less rude to insert the idea that I wasn't talking about the real world.

your belief is not based in reality, cardaway. that's not being rude, that's just being honest.

our children listen to other voices besides our own. their opinins are influenced by their teachers, their peers, and yes, by the rock stars, movie actors and athletes they admire. a good parent tries to lay a good foundation in teaching morals and ethics, for example, but ultimately the kids make their own choices and form their own opinions.

or did you think that children were merely the intellectual and emotional clones of their parents?

 

[MorganLeFey]

My main point is still the impact of the celebrity and who is ultimately responsible. IMO the imact is limited, and when it comes to kids, the parents alone are responsible for the long term affect.

IMO we can't go on about how meaningless some celeb opinions are and then turn around and say Mel must do anything but apologize for his comments. Celeb opinions are golden or worthless, you can't have it both ways.

I also find it shocking how often the people defending the Jewish side of some recent threads have inserted hateful and rude comments. Given the topic of this thread it's also pretty ironic. I haven't seen anybody defending the other side insert comments about not being in the real world, being ignorant, naive, and any other comment beyond just discussing the issue at hand.

cardaway, you're obviously looking for a fight. my comments were aimed specifically at your opinion and the basis -- or lack of basis -- for your statements.

it's obvious to me that you have little experience with teenagers, because aparently you think that children get all of their ideas and opinions frm their parents, without any influence from other sources. that is not reality.

 

[MorganLeFey]

but then again, I'm an "alarmist" when I cringe at swastikas drawn all over the school building in the town next to mine and feel the need to urge my synagogue to beef up security....

 

[JRawkSteady]

I do agree that celebrities have a HUGE effect on children's lives. If a child looks up to someone, he/she's going to most likely try to be exactly like that person. However, it is up to the parents to make right and wrong known. Whether this is out there or not doesn't mean the child will listen. People learn from experience, not only from your home.

With that said, I doubt any teenager really looks up to washed up actor Mel Gibson as a role model anyway.

 

[lucyblondecat]

I do agree that celebrities have a HUGE effect on children's lives. If a child looks up to someone, he/she's going to most likely try to be exactly like that person. However, it is up to the parents to make right and wrong known. Whether this is out there or not doesn't mean the child will listen. People learn from experience, not only from your home.

With that said, I doubt any teenager really looks up to washed up actor Mel Gibson as a role model anyway.

While I agree its unlikely any teenager would look to Mel Gibson as a role model, I'd hardly call him washed up. Perhaps he is after this incident (either that, or he's revived his career tenfold!). But before the arrest Mel Gibson was probably one of the most successful working actors in the industry, at least from a monetary standpoint.