WTH Mel??

[Imzadi]

C'mon. I'm sure the tons 'o money Mel made on Passion, and accolades of many, many, many fans, helped him to cope with the criticism.

If you think money and accolades cures alcoholism, you know nothing about the disease. Nor do you know what may contribute to someone to have a relapse.
The criticism that was directed at Mel during Passion was about him, not the movie.

I am NOT saying the Jewish people are at fault for his relapse. I made it quite clear where the responsibility of picking up a drink lies - in the alcoholic. I was writing about the miscellaneous contributing factors which may push one over the edge. You are either unintentionally or deliberately "misunderstanding" my remark & I am not falling for it.

 

[DancingBear]

If you think money and accolades cures alcoholism, you know nothing about the disease. Nor do you know what may contribute to someone to have a relapse.
The criticism that was directed at Mel during Passion was about him, not the movie.

I am NOT saying the Jewish people are at fault for his relapse. I made it quite clear where the responsibility of picking up a drink lies - in the alcoholic. I was writing about the miscellaneous contributing factors which may push one over the edge. You are either unintentionally or deliberately "misunderstanding" my remark & I am not falling for it.

Really? "Miscellaneous" factors which "may" push one over the edge? When I read your post, I only see one factor cited--criticism from "the Jewish sector."

No, wait a minute, it wasn't just criticism, he was "crucified" by "the Jewish sector"!!!

Then you say "That would push almost any alcoholic start drinking again." (sic) Just where am I going wrong in restating the chain of responsibility from what you posted?

I hold Mel responsible for his drinking and his behavior.

 

[MorganLeFey]

Right. Mel's relapse into acoholism, his driving while drunk, endangering others, mistreatment of police officers and anti-Semitic ravings are all also the fault of the Jews.

C'mon. I'm sure the tons 'o money Mel made on Passion, and accolades of many, many, many fans, helped him to cope with the criticism.

Harry Truman said "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen."

If you can't stand criticism, you shouldn't be putting your views out there, if you know what I mean.

 

[Cool-Beans]

If you think money and accolades cures alcoholism, you know nothing about the disease. Nor do you know what may contribute to someone to have a relapse.
The criticism that was directed at Mel during Passion was about him, not the movie.

I am NOT saying the Jewish people are at fault for his relapse. I made it quite clear where the responsibility of picking up a drink lies - in the alcoholic. I was writing about the miscellaneous contributing factors which may push one over the edge. You are either unintentionally or deliberately "misunderstanding" my remark & I am not falling for it.

I read it the same way. It sounded like you were blaming the Jews for picking on poor little Mel and he would OF COURSE go get drunk and start spewing anti-semitic crap. Honestly, that's how it came across to me.

I believe you when you say you didn't mean that, but I'm not sure what your point was.

 

[Planogirl]

There's lots of interesting perspectives here. Maybe the man does feel persecuted and started ranting about it while he was in his drunken state. Maybe his father has rubbed off on him in a bad way. Maybe he's just another wacko.

I won't quit watching his stuff YET though until I know more about what his problems are. I don't give up on people easily not even strangers. If I do find out that he is anti-Semitic, I guess that I won't ever be able to look at him in the same way though.

 

[DawnCt1]

I won't quit watching his stuff YET though until I know more about what his problems are. I don't give up on people easily not even strangers. If I do find out that he is anti-Semitic, I guess that I won't ever be able to look at him in the same way though.

Prior to this episode, I don't believe there has been a history of antisemetism. One episode of drunken rantings does not an antisemetic make. I don't believe that Passion was antisemetic. With regard to his father; Do we really buy "the sins of the father...."?

 

[Imzadi]

I read it the same way. It sounded like you were blaming the Jews for picking on poor little Mel and he would OF COURSE go get drunk and start spewing anti-semitic crap. Honestly, that's how it came across to me.

I believe you when you say you didn't mean that, but I'm not sure what your point was.

Eeps! No! I do NOT think or feel this way. I am not blaming the Jews. In fact, in my first post I DID say, "I am NOT saying what he did was right or is any kind of justification... This is not how I feel or think." (It was in the fifth paragraph and not in my first sentence, so I can see now, how I might have been misunderstood.

In all my quotes, DancingBear didn't repost that, so I wondered if she purposely left it out to try & make me seem anti-semetic. I realize now, if my first few sentences came across as rude or offensive, five paragraphs later, something could get lost.

My first sentence was actually following up on a quote by miss missy, "He has had a tough time since, ... so much so he hasn't been out much and I am sure he isn't feeling very good from all that." But if you weren't sure what part I was responding to, and I didn't restate that that yes, maybe MEL has been feeling personally picked on, persecuted, crucified, attacked, etc., it might seem like I thought that way.

As a therapist, I look for the cause of what makes people do certain things at a certain time. As DawnCt1 stated, "Prior to this episode, I don't believe there has been a history of antisemetism." As far as we know publicly, the only time Mel has had a problem with the Jews was during Passion. Prior to that, Mel was the extremely successful mega star. He's never had what he perceived as personal attacks or criticism of this nature & magnitude before. So I traced a possible start to his latest going off the wagon & anti-semetic rants to during Passion.

Remember, when an alcoholic goes back to drinking, it's not over celebratory events. Alcoholics (and other kinds of addicts) drink to escape, to numb an internal pain, or distract themselves even for a little while. So, yes, someone can make $350 Million & get heaps of accolades from one sector, have a loyal wife & loving kids & still feel pain & tortured inside. Sometimes the soul can feel like an oozing wound that never stops bleeding. Sometimes, all the praying to God is just not enough. They can't focus on all the good stuff around them when internal pain is so bad.

Good Morning America reairred Mel's interview with Diane Sawyer. He admitted to being an addict of various kinds all his adult life and the demons are always present. His perceiving himself as being persecuted could be a contributing factor (among many,) for making him want to drink & rant about it.

There are different kinds of drunks. Some get all huggy & sloppy, telling everyone they love them. Some get really quiet & depressed. Some dance & become loud to try to stay one step ahead of of the pain. Some beat their spouse. Some become mean drunks. Some like to pick fights & mouth off at people. Mel seems to be in the last category.

It doesn't make him less responsible for his behavior. I was just looking at what may have been for him possible causes.

 

[Gonz Of Lancashire]

We're a bit off topic here, aren't we?

Maybe, but I was just replying to a comment made earlier.

 

[Gonz Of Lancashire]

Ok, fess up, how many went to Dictionary.com and looked up that word?

Feel free to use that word whenever you like.

 

[noodleknitter]

I've met his dad. If Mel managed to be even a decent person after being raised by that man, all the more power to him.

Alcohol doesn't bring out the "real person." It makes the brain cells dysfunctional. You can't speak truth when your cells are not functioning. (A brief msg. to you kids of alcoholics, who believe the crap said to them.)

 

[WhoopyPie]

Feel free to use that word whenever you like.

It's one of my husbands favorite words. First time we dated he used it and I had to go home and look it up. Okay that was over 25 years ago.

 

[sodaseller]

Prior to this episode, I don't believe there has been a history of antisemetism.

Yes, there was. Both the editorial choices made in the movie, and the response to that criticism

 

[DawnCt1]

Yes, there was. Both the editorial choices made in the movie, and the response to that criticism

I disagree but feel free to provide an example.

 

[amy4bruce]

I disagree but feel free to provide an example.

Well, he has been quoted as saying that his father, a well-known Holocaust denier, has "never lied to [him]." Also, when asked if he thought there had been a Holocaust, said "Many people died in World War II, and some were Jews." Both of these are kind of weak, but there you have it.

I have not seen The Passion of the Christ. Given its source (not the Bible, as he claims, but The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ, as Seen Through the Eyes of Anne Katherine Emmerich), it would be hard for it not to contain trace elements of anti-Semitism, because the original does. Of course, Emmerich was a 19th century nun, and these beliefs were not only common, but encouraged.

One thing that has been left out here - Mr. Gibson has notoriously been anti-Gay. He came under fire for Bird on a Wire, and again for Braveheart.

I do not know if this will ruin his career. I don't really care. If he makes a movie that I want to see, I'll probably see it. I won't have dinner with him, but the odds against that happening were pretty big, anyway.

 

[mking624]

Well, he has been quoted as saying that his father, a well-known Holocaust denier, has "never lied to [him]." Also, when asked if he thought there had been a Holocaust, said "Many people died in World War II, and some were Jews." Both of these are kind of weak, but there you have it.

I remember when the Passion came out and he was on some night news show (Primetime or 20/20 or something like that) and they got into this discussion. I remember very clearly how much he tried to skirt around the question of whether or not he believed the Holocaust was real. He danced around that bush so much and his answers were just absurd. Just enough to please the people who wanted so much to trust him, but ridiculous to those who wanted to see where he truly stood. Some of the answers he gave were what you just said.

 

[sodaseller]

I disagree but feel free to provide an example.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030728&s=fredriksen072803

Fisher and Korn had faxed Fulco two documents on criteria for evaluating dramatizations of Jesus's Passion, one issued by the USCCB in 1988, the second produced jointly by the USCCB and the ADL in 2001. In response, Fulco thanked them, and assured both men that the script was devoid of any hint of antiJewishness. In fact, he claimed, it was "totally in accord with the [USCCB/ADL] documents." Fulco's struggles with the translation, he says in this e-mail, had engraved the script in his memory. ("I know [it] almost backwards.") Shooting had concluded, Fulco said, only the prior week. Fulco then added two points of information relevant to future events--that he was "preparing accurate subtitles" (what had happened to Gibson's "point of honor"?) and that "the film follows the script quite faithfully." (Since the reporter from The Wall Street Journal had mentioned seeing "a first look at a rough cut of the film," it must have been substantially assembled before March 7.)

The article is incomplete nopw online, but here in the letters Fredricksen points to te fact that when Gibson's scriot was criticized by scholars, including priests and Bishops, for not following guidelines on wn how to presnt the Passion to avoid anti-Semitism, all a product of Vatican II and Nostra Aetate , Gibson's publicity crew only mentioned one of te scholars by name - Amy Jill Levine. Wonder why they picked that name out of 14 and omtted the priests and Bishops?

Finally--and most insidiously--Icon's publicity has noisily emphasized Jewish criticism while studiously effacing or ignoring Christian, and particularly Catholic, criticism, which has been equally articulate and public. Joe DiRenzo will forgive me, perhaps, if I see Zenit's singling out Levine as part of this overall strategy.

And don't forget what Charles Krauthammer noted - the extrascriptural depictions of your Master moving among the Jews, plus the visions of Anne Emmerich as the script, and don't forget the selection to include the Matthean Blood curse over protest, the single passage that Church authorities have specifically directed should not be used without theological explanation

 

[MorganLeFey]

Yiddish is such a descriptive language

Mel's got tsuris from this stunt.

 

[DancingBear]

I disagree but feel free to provide an example.

As far as editorial choices in the movie, here is a detailed article discussing same:

http://www.bc.edu/research/cjl/meta...tions/resources/reviews/gibson_cunningham.htm

 

[MorganLeFey]

more interesting reading

and about that movie

 

[eclectics]

One thing that has been left out here - Mr. Gibson has notoriously been anti-Gay. He came under fire for Bird on a Wire, and again for Braveheart.

Actually, I said it twice , not to mention his women "barefoot and pregnant" remark and other "off the cuff" remarks. The man is an ultra orthodox Catholic and apparently intolerant of any behavior or groups of people that don't fit his definition of normal. That's his right, of course, but as Hollywood has no shortage of Gays, Jews, and Career Women, it seems to me he is continuing to alienate the very people he needs for his career.