Wow....

[mickeyfan2]

I live in the state ranked the worst in bridge repair. We also have seriously crappy roads because of the money earmarked for roads is going into the hwy relocation project. I would much rather money go towards bridge, dam, and road repair than state health insurance.

***I am not saying that there should be no money put towards health care. I am saying I would not sacrifice any amount of infrastructure budget to pay for it ****

Thank you. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

But I buy mine privately so I will not get a corporate tax break and will pay higher taxes. Seems extremely unfair to me.

So then you would benefit the most. You go from having to pay entirely out of pocket to having the option to get good healthcare for free. How is that unfair exactly?

 

[dansamy]

Yes because we all KNOW that none of those who don't have health care never did anything as wonderful or sacrificed as much as you right? Give me a break!

I'm not saying they did or didn't. I'm telling you what we had to do to get to where we are now. I made my own choices in life, just like they did. People working for companies unwilling/unable to provide health insurance may need to reconsider their career strategies. People working low-wage jobs and can't afford the health insurance from their employer may need to reconsider their career strategies. I don't need or want the government taking even more money from my pockets to fund corrupt, abused programs. Food Stamps and TANF are horrendously rife with fraud and abuse. Let's start by overhauling the social programs we have now instead of drumming up more ways to spend money that doesn't belong to the government in the first place.

 

[Crankyshank]

Thank you. That was the point I was trying to make.

No problem. I admit to being a bit horrified that 2 yrs after Katrina, anyone would support putting money earmarked for infrastructure into gov't run health care.

 

[jimmiej]

Correct me if I am wrong, Jimmie, but aren't there a few bible verses that run counter to this particular train of thought?

2 Thessalonians 3

10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
11We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat.

I understand there are some things government is responsible for. I have no problem paying my taxes for that. Our current government however, is bloated. Too many hand-outs instead of giving just a hand-up. I want to decide what/who to give to, not some beaurecrat (sp?) deciding for me.

 

[mickeyfan2]

So then you would benefit the most. You go from having to pay entirely out of pocket to having the option to get good healthcare for free. How is that unfair exactly?

As I stated on the other thread. We pay $10.4K per year in health insurance. The estimates are increases of 10% -12% of additional taxes to fund this. DH and I both work, so could make $100K. I would actually pay more since I will pay more in increased taxes than I am now for my insurance. So not I am not better off.

 

[wvjules]

As I stated on the other thread. We pay $10.4K per year in health insurance. The estimates are increases of 10% -12% of additional taxes to fund this. DH and I both work, so could make $100K. I would actually pay more since I will pay more in increased taxes than I am now for my insurance. So not I am not better off.

Well you could do what is suggested for the uninsured man down the street...find a job with good healthcare coverage. If its good enough for him its good enough for you.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

I look at the people I work with. Out of about 250 I personally know of at least half a dozen who claim they can't afford it, yet are driving expensive, leased cars and/or taking expensive vacations and/or have bought items like 72" widescreens. I also know of another half a dozen who claim "it's not worth it." Our coverage is a decent plan that costs an individual about $32 a month. That's 5% of the company, and those are only the ones I know of. That's what I'm basing my comments on.

I have to beleive that's a decent random sampling--these are people in everything from the lowest paying blue collar type jobs to clerical positions to managers.

I never said that all uninsured people fit this category, I know that many uninsured people don't have insurance available to them for many different reasons. But there are more than a few that could buy it and simply choose not to. At my previous employer you ahd no choice. If you couldn't prove that you had health insurance through a spouse or other sourse, you were forced to take the lowest costing major medical plan that was offered and the premium of about $20 a month was taken from your check. Period.

Anne

So becuase you work with a bunch of stupid losers that means everyone is the same way?

~Amanda

 

[Chloe'sMom]

For many of us there will be a decrease in services. Will the government system cover vision? Dental? Prescriptions? My guess is that in the long run I will pay more in taxes, have to wait longer to get an appointment, and see the level of service I currently receive decrease. That's not something I want to live with.

This is your opinion - or better yet your "guess" does not mean it will be true.

~Amanda

 

[ducklite]

So becuase you work with a bunch of stupid losers that means everyone is the same way?

~Amanda

No, although I agree with your assessment that they are stupid losers.

But there are plenty more like them in this country. My employer is not an isolated microcosm. As I said, my guess is that it's probably a pretty valid sample--those emplyees are scattered between seven states, incomes that range from $25K to over $75K a year, and a variety of career and education levels.

The article with census details posted a page or two back definitely supports this.

I am not saying that everyone without health insurance is like those co-workers. But a measurable percentage of people who do not have health insurance could have health insurance if they chose their priorities differently.

Anne

 

[poohandwendy]

This discussion is always polarizing because one group can't give up the 'you must not care about people down on their luck' angle and the other can't give up the 'people are abusing the system' angle.

IMO, throwing more money at a system that isn't working is not a solution any more than giving a compulsive gambler more money and hoping that will solve their addiction. And the system is obviously not working or there would not be anything to discuss.

More taxes=more money going into a system that is not working, not the solution. Correcting the problems with the current system or revamping the system altogether=the answer.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

As I stated on the other thread. We pay $10.4K per year in health insurance. The estimates are increases of 10% -12% of additional taxes to fund this. DH and I both work, so could make $100K. I would actually pay more since I will pay more in increased taxes than I am now for my insurance. So not I am not better off.

I don't know where you get that number from, but consider this. Right now, Americans pay twice as much for healthcare than most citizens of nations with nationalized healthcare. It is estimated that 50% of all healthcare dollars in the US actually go to healthcare. The rest goes to middlemen. We pay 15.2% of our GDP toward healthcare. Canada pays 9.9% and the UK pays 8.0%. Looks to me like nationalized healthcare costs less to the taxpayers.

 

[rie'smom]

I say no tax raise. Let the gov't either impose a flat tax ot national sales tax. Then let the Congress figure out what to do with the money. While figuring, there should be an accountant to make sure that they stay w/in the budget our tax dollars provide. If, as they claim, a National Health Policy is that important to them,they'll make the dollars work.

 

[nuke]

"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18

For Jimmie.

 

[hydster]

I'm not saying they did or didn't. I'm telling you what we had to do to get to where we are now. I made my own choices in life, just like they did. People working for companies unwilling/unable to provide health insurance may need to reconsider their career strategies. People working low-wage jobs and can't afford the health insurance from their employer may need to reconsider their career strategies. I don't need or want the government taking even more money from my pockets to fund corrupt, abused programs. Food Stamps and TANF are horrendously rife with fraud and abuse. Let's start by overhauling the social programs we have now instead of drumming up more ways to spend money that doesn't belong to the government in the first place.

And what would you suggest all of these people change their careers to? 10 years ago when DH started in IT it was the motherlode for health care, retirement all of it. Fast forward to today.....it's not that way anymore and the fact is it is getting less and less every day. So where would suggest these people just "go"? And who's to say that if we went back to school and changed career paths that by the time we were able to get a job in that field they wouldn't have pulled health care and retirement too??? It isn't that easy of a fix for many.

I am not for frivolous government spending and the unchecked spending that is going on. There needs to be a total overhaul of government spending in ALL aspects regarding the budget not just one or two.

 

[disneyfan67]

"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18

For Jimmie.

A can of worms is open, I see.

It's been my experience that people who are into religion pick and choose biblical verses/quotations to fit their mindset and lifestyle. It's like they think they're at a buffet and can choose only certain items, when in reality they should be accepting the whole package. When you study about Jesus, you find that he would be considered a radical liberal, by today's religious conservatives. I have always noticed that and I guess it's one of the many reasons why I never bought into organised religion.

 

[nuke]

A can of worms is open, I see.

It's been my experience that people who are into religion pick and choose biblical verses/quotations to fit their mindset and lifestyle. It's like they think they're at a buffet and can choose only certain items, when in reality they should be accepting the whole package. When you study about Jesus, you find that he would be considered a radical liberal, by today's religious conservatives. I have always noticed that and I guess it's one of the many reasons why I never bought into organised religion.

Exactly! Which I way I did a google search and posted this.

Back to the healthcare thing. We are extremely lucky with the job my DH has. We pay very little for really good health/dental. It's one of the reasons he is staying where he is for a long time!

When he got laid off from a previous job about 9 years ago we had a 1 year old baby. We couldn't not have healthcare so we paid for cobra for 4 months. It was over $900 a month. How that is an option for people that lost their jobs I don't know. Again we were lucky that we could afford it at the time. I can't imagine losing a job, trying to live on unemployment and paying for Cobra.

Something needs to be done in this country with healthcare. I wish I had the answer that could satisfy everyone but I don't think any one plan can make EVERYONE happy.

 

[dansamy]

I am not for frivolous government spending and the unchecked spending that is going on. There needs to be a total overhaul of government spending in ALL aspects regarding the budget not just one or two.

Then let's not advocate raising taxes on hard-working Americans for the government to create yet another social progrm that needs overhauling. The government needs to prove good stewardship over the dollars they are already entrusted with in order to earn the trust of the public to agree to more taxes.

 

[AllyandJack]

I have no problem having my tax money go to help Americans who fall on rough times. However, I have a huge problem with it going to help anybody who manages to cross the border and people who do nothing to help themselves when they are perfectly able to do so.

I also don't want to take part in any such plan. I love my heath insurance. I want to keep it. I'll gladly pay taxes for Americans and those here legally to have health insurance if they can't get it otherwise. But, I hate paying for illegal immigrants. I hate paying for people who are offered insurance through work but think they're better than everyone else and go on Medicaid to avoid co-payments (my cousin does this and it infuriates me to no end). I also hate paying for people who could work and have benefits, but don't.

I agree with some of the earlier posters. Until the government can prove to me that the money will go to the right places (health care for Americans and those here legally who work if they can and simply don't get insurance because their employer doesn't offer it and it's too expensive to get on their own), I don't want to give them anymore. So far, they haven't earned my confidence and that's why I don't agree with raising my taxes at this moment in time.

I also don't want to be forced into some government-run program a la Canada. I want to keep my insurance, but I'll gladly pay for my fellow Americans who need it.

 

[connorlevismom]

I have one child and it is $203 per week. That is for one of the less expensive ones in town. Kindercare and New Horizons can be as much as 400-500 per kid per week.

Ummmmm no, that is false. I live in Minneapolis as well and my son used to go to Childrens world. $200.00 per week and now he attends a different center which is $240.00 per week. Not even kKnderbury Hill is $400-500 per week for one kid.

Kristine