Wow....

[JennyMominRI]

I think I have a very bitter taste in my mouth about being forced to pay more taxes to help others because I have seen, for the past 25 years, people constantly abuse the system to get more money and do nothing for it.

My mother is a social worker and a lot of her clients abuse the system to no end. That is where a lot of our tax dollars are going. So if we raise taxes, yet again, does anyone really think it will have any effect on the situation.

My mom is just 1 of the hundreds of thousands of social workers. How many people do you think abuse the system. This is the main reason why I am against it.

Maybe we can reallocate some of the funds from these (broken) programs to cover much of the costs of healthcare.

 

[DISUNC]

MTE! Over the last day or so I have seen so many sweeping generalizations I'm astounded.

First, I find out that most kids with food allergies are exaggerating because we've all met the one person who *thinks* they have an allergy and they want to bring attention to themselves. In that same thread, we find out that most kids don't really have ADHD, they just need a little discipline and their parents don't want to make them behave.

Now, I seeing that most people who don't have healthcare do it because they would rather pay for the Lexus or the nice things in life. Sort of like working moms too--they keep working to have the McMansion and Lexus because we all know that no mother really needs to work, right?

The generalizations are crazy and, honestly, it harks back to the days of racism and prejudice because a group of people are sitting on their ivory pillar!

Sure, we've ALL met a few abusers. Maybe I'm just a glass-half-full person but I do not, for a minute, believe that the majority of our population wants to be this way.

Sometimes it's hard to get to the right places. For instance, if I were to retire from my company I would get NO retirement healthcare. None. What am I going to do? Well, in the meantime, I've been trying for 3 years to get into the Federal Government so that this will be there for me (providing the government doesn't change their mind). Do you KNOW how hard it is to get in? I'm trying and so are lots of other people.

You just can't KNOCK people based on the handful of abusers you met or read about.

I have known people dying of Cancer or crippled by car accidents who had to FIGHT for a long time to get their SSI benefits. And then it was a pittnance.

According to posters on the Disboards it is sooooooooooo EZ!

If you get a serious illness, and you are under 65 and you live in the USA...You are in Serious Trouble...with or without Insurance.

 

[ducklite]

I am with the OP on this.

I still see the USA as a Democratic nation and we have Civic duties/responsibilities.
Too many people want to see this Country as strickly a Capitalistic Society!

Including those who have the duty to do everything possible to take care of themselves before relying on the taxpayers to do it for them. There are far too many who are not doing thier civic duty because they'd rather take the easy road and colelct a check every month for doing nothing. I do my civic duty by already paying taxes in the highest tax bracket, and frankly I'm not willing to pay out another dime.

This country wastes too much money as it is--between sending umpteen billions in aid to umpteen countries, fighting a "war" in Iraq, and porkbarrel spending to fund bridges to no where and "Pig Farming Museums" that no one ever visits. When government can show it's citizens that it is using taxpayer dollars in a prudent, frugal, responsible manner, well at that point there should be more than enough money to help those who truly need help--by giving them a handup, not a handout.

Anne

 

[rgf207]

This is a thread started by an American, about American values and I was staying out of it until you brought Canada into it!

I don't know where your summer place is, but all the Canadians I know love our health care system. If there is something seriously wrong with me, I don't even bother to call my doctor, I go straight to one of the several walk in clinincs in my area, or I go to ER.

I am surprised to find out people are dying in ER waiting rooms in this country...oh wait, that was in America.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

yet again someone twisting what I said. I was not bashing Canadians. I was simply relaying what I had heard from numerous Canadians who I encounter at our Place (which is 1 hour outside Ottawa).

This has absolutly nothing to do with "throwing stones" I was simply stating that free healthcare isn't all that it's cracked out to be.

Do you not agree that your taxes are extremely high? you are paying for the healthcare but in a different way.

 

[Fishbone†]

Interestly enough I was thinking about this on my way to work this morning.

I don't see at as selfish. I just think people are sick of supporting people who are more than able to support themselves, or should have been able to support themselves, but made poor choices that reaped the consequences they are living. I am quite sure there are people who just plain ran into a pile of bad luck, and legitimately need a hand to get them back on their feet, but I truly think most people bring it on themselves. Now, I understand you may feel otherwise, and if you have reason to believe I'm misinformed or can show me why I'm wrong, I'm all for listening, but here's where I'm coming from:

I don't think people plan ahead, or build a cushion for themselves. They live well beyond their means and when something unexpected happens, they don't have anything to fall back on.

They make conscious choices that cost them money, time, and/or the ability to support themselves. Hey - you live with the consequences of your actions and your choices.

If you choose to have more kids then you can support, that's not my problem. We're trying to become financially comfortable enough to have our own... why should we have to support yours. (Not that I don't feel for the kids, mind you).

If you choose to live beyond your means without a plan for the rainy days, why do you think you can take from my rainy day fund?

If you don't even make an effort to support yourself, why should I have to make an extra effort so I can support you as well as myself.

My brother used to tell my niece a story about three squirrels. Samuel Squirrel worked hard every day gathering nuts for the coming winter. He had a whole tree full of nuts. Each day he would see two other squirrels. One was gathering nuts like he was, and the other was running around, playing and eating the nuts he found, but not storing any away. Then the other working squirrel broke his leg and couldn't gather nuts anymore. Samuel would always share some of his nuts with the squirrel who broke his leg, but really didn't feel the need to share with the careless squirrel.

The point is, there will always be injured squirrels, elderly squirrels, orphaned squirrels and other unfortunate squirrels that need some help. Often communities, families, friends and organizations step in here, but if they need help, I am more than willing to share my "wealth". However, all too often my hard-earned money is being taken from me to support people who just don't see the need to make the choices that will help them to take care of themselves, and I don't feel as if I'm being selfish when I don't want to share with them.

JMHO - thoughts quickly jotted down so hopefully complete and conherent.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I have known people dying of Cancer or crippled by car accidents who had to FIGHT for a long time to get their SSI benefits. And then it was a pittnance.

According to posters on the Disboards it is sooooooooooo EZ!

If you get a serious illness, and you are under 65 and you live in the USA...You are in Serious Trouble...with or without Insurance.

It took me 18 months to get SSDI.
My ex has been trying for years.. He has AIDS for 16and has had symptoms and has low tcells etc. etc..They keep turning him down..He was just hospitalized for heart problems and had a stint put in his chest. Hopefully this will make them decide he's sick enough

 

[CheshireVal]

Including those who have the duty to do everything possible to take care of themselves before relying on the taxpayers to do it for them. There are far too many who are not doing thier civic duty because they'd rather take the easy road and colelct a check every month for doing nothing. I do my civic duty by already paying taxes in the highest tax bracket, and frankly I'm not willing to pay out another dime.

And there are far too many who ARE doing their civic duty by paying taxes, working full time and who still cannot afford good healthcare.

It's really not as black and white as you make it seem.

 

[DISUNC]

My mother is a social worker and a lot of her clients abuse the system to no end. That is where a lot of our tax dollars are going.

As a tax payer who pays your Mothers salary...what is she doing to STOP all this abuse?

 

[rgf207]

She documents everything and reports every case of abuse or suspected abuse to the proper chain.

She does everything according to the book but it is out of her hands. She has absolutly no authority to revoke benefits if that is what you are leaning towards.

 

[ducklite]

It took me 18 months to get SSDI.
My ex has been trying for years.. He has AIDS for 16and has had symptoms and has low tcells etc. etc..They keep turning him down..He was just hospitalized for heart problems and had a stint put in his chest. Hopefully this will make them decide he's sick enough

A friend of mine was disgnosed with lung cancer and received SSDI within 30 days of applying. I don't know what the difference is, perhaps different states have different rules? (I know it's federal, but just taking a guess.) In her case her doctor specified that she had less than a 50% chance of living more than two years, maybe that's the difference?

Anne

 

[freckles and boo]

Not a single one. Helping people is a matter of choice, when it's done by force and against your will - essentially because you will go to jail if you don't - it's not at all Christian.

Actually I was responding to the rather "unChristian" tone of the post about not wanting to help others, as well as Jimmie's penchant for tossing out bible verses to support his moral superiority. But hey, I am an Atheist, so what do I know?

My taxes supporting a war that I don't morally agree with is far more dispicable to me than being "forced" to help people who need health care.

 

[CheshireVal]

Maybe we can reallocate some of the funds from these (broken) programs to cover much of the costs of healthcare.

That is what I'd like to see happen. Streamline the government, get rid of the excess waste, fix healthcare with the extra $$.

 

[mrsltg]

As a tax payer who pays your Mothers salary...what is she doing to STOP all this abuse?

A social worker cannot FORCE someone to change their behavior. What do you want her to do? Wave a magic wand and make the person responsible?

 

[rgf207]

A social worker cannot FORCE someone to change their behavior. What do you want her to do? Wave a magic wand and make the person responsible?

Thank you. I had a hard time responding to that comment because it was so insulting

 

[chyam]

That is exactly the problem with our government. We spend billions fixing everybody else's problems, but we neglect our own.

I don't mind my taxes going up for 'our' citizens, but it has to be a joint effort with the government. This administration has completely ignored the domestic issues.

They need to move at least a few of those billions back over to this side of the pond.

I feel the exact same way......charity begins at home, and if we keep shipping all of our tax money over to help every other country but our own we'll be the ones needing the help! I'm willing to bet that very few countries will be there to help us out.
I would much rather have my tax money helping the hard working Americans, the eldely, the ill and the children of this nation first! Then worry about others. We have spent BILLIONS overseas and get very little thanks for it, I hate seeing my money ( what little of it I have) given away to help make political statements.

 

[DISUNC]

It took me 18 months to get SSDI.
My ex has been trying for years.. He has AIDS for 16and has had symptoms and has low tcells etc. etc..They keep turning him down..He was just hospitalized for heart problems and had a stint put in his chest. Hopefully this will make them decide he's sick enough

Whats even more sad is that they have to hire Lawyers to get it!

 

[basas]

Are we, as Americans, that selfish that we don't want our taxes to go up slightly to help the less fortunate?

I'm just shaking my head at how selfish we seem to be as a whole. (Not pointing to any individual poster.)

I've been the one receiving Medicaid, getting EITC, even got food stamps briefly. Fortunately I'm no longer in that situation anymore. However, I have NO problem with my taxes going to social programs to help the less fortunate. Sure there are going ot be people that abuse the system, but should all less fortunate suffer b/c of a few bad apples.

I'm truely perplexed at how selfish we have become, or maybe always have been.

I'm rambling....anyway

Ultimately, I earn the money I make and I want to be able to choose how to spend it. Now that could mean giving to certain charities and helping the poor, or it could be to help pay college tuition or buy a new car. The point is that I want to be in control over where the majority of my money goes. I don’t need the government deciding that for me.

That is exactly the problem with our government. We spend billions fixing everybody else's problems, but we neglect our own.

I don't mind my taxes going up for 'our' citizens, but it has to be a joint effort with the government. This administration has completely ignored the domestic issues.

They need to move at least a few of those billions back over to this side of the pond.

I would think national security would be one of our own problems.

Ok, I'll jump into the fire

Is it selfish of me to expect the fruits of my labor to be... well... mine? If it is, then call me selfish. Is it selfish of me to expect people to take responsibility for their own lives? If it is, then call me selfish. Is it selfish of me to expect people to live with the consequences of their decisions? If it is, then call me selfish.

From my perspective, expecting others to take care of me is far more selfish.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. "

-- Thomas Jefferson

Agreed.

I am with the OP on this.

I still see the USA as a Democratic nation and we have Civic duties/responsibilities.

Too many people want to see this Country as strickly a Capitalistic Society!

And too many want to see it as a socialist country where you can rely on the government and your fellow citizens to make up for every mistake you make. I don’t see the problem with the duties/responsibilities of the government being a fairly short list (law enforcement, roads, national security, etc.)

I don't know where your summer place is, but all the Canadians I know love our health care system. If there is something seriously wrong with me, I don't even bother to call my doctor, I go straight to one of the several walk in clinincs in my area, or I go to ER.

I am surprised to find out people are dying in ER waiting rooms in this country...oh wait, that was in America.

Funny. I haven’t met one Canadian who liked it. In fact, any one who can afford it goes to the United States for health care. And do you know how many Canadians have died while on waiting lists for critical operations?

 

[mrsltg]

Thank you. I had a hard time responding to that comment because it was so insulting

If she does have a magic wand, would you please send it to my husband? He's been policing DC for over 17 years and has arrested the same people over and over and over and over again. He has been into the Section 8 housing with the 52 inch screen TV's that don't even have a bed for the children in the house yet there is a luxury SUV parked in front belonging to the person who is too poor to afford their own rent. Amazingly, these 'poor' women can't afford 'basic' healthcare for their kids. Let me tell you- I have a 28" television and drive an 8 year old car with manual locks - we pay our insurance premiums because that's the priority. And yet somehow, personal responsibility is neglected in this discussion constantly?

 

[ducklite]

And there are far too many who ARE doing their civic duty by paying taxes, working full time and who still cannot afford good healthcare.

It's really not as black and white as you make it seem.

I look at the people I work with. Out of about 250 I personally know of at least half a dozen who claim they can't afford it, yet are driving expensive, leased cars and/or taking expensive vacations and/or have bought items like 72" widescreens. I also know of another half a dozen who claim "it's not worth it." Our coverage is a decent plan that costs an individual about $32 a month. That's 5% of the company, and those are only the ones I know of. That's what I'm basing my comments on.

I have to beleive that's a decent random sampling--these are people in everything from the lowest paying blue collar type jobs to clerical positions to managers.

I never said that all uninsured people fit this category, I know that many uninsured people don't have insurance available to them for many different reasons. But there are more than a few that could buy it and simply choose not to. At my previous employer you ahd no choice. If you couldn't prove that you had health insurance through a spouse or other sourse, you were forced to take the lowest costing major medical plan that was offered and the premium of about $20 a month was taken from your check. Period.

Anne

 

[JennyMominRI]

A friend of mine was disgnosed with lung cancer and received SSDI within 30 days of applying. I don't know what the difference is, perhaps different states have different rules? (I know it's federal, but just taking a guess.) In her case her doctor specified that she had less than a 50% chance of living more than two years, maybe that's the difference?

Anne

There are federal regulations regarding SSDI, and in fact you aren't even alllowed to recieve a check until 6 months after you have been determined to be disabled.
That's not a state thing, that's the federal law..No exceptions

http://www.ssa.gov/dibplan/dapproval.htm
Good luck even getting your paperwork in 30 days

.. I was told I'd be dead in 18 months...That's what SSDI was told