Wow now I see what people were talking about!

[Chili327]

Been making some lowball albeit not out of bounds offers on certain contracts and I made an offer with a company I haven’t used before and got an admonishing email about how I’m wasting everyone’s time making ridiculous offers and what not. I thought this was only hyperbole when I read others experiences but I was really taken aback by the rudeness of the email. I mean…it’s your job to field offers and then get a nice commission for doing some legwork. What’s the deal? Does this person hate their job or something? Hate the people who buy the contracts and thereby pay their salary? Yeesh. A little professionalism too much to ask for? I’d rather just be ignored with no nasty email.

Would you really rather be ignored, or would you rather someone let you know that you're not going to be successful with your current strategy?

I'm not the OP, but I would rather be ignored than lectured, for sure. I was in fact admonished by someone who also told me that my low offer would never be accepted. The contract I ended up buying a few days later was several dollars cheaper than the amount I had offered and was lectured about, so really, I could have done without the lecture.

Rudeness really serves no purpose, and simply ignoring you would have saved the broker time and effort for sure.

Having said that, I think when you start off by acknowledging that your offer is "lowball" ("not out of bounds" is even more subjective), then I think it really comes down to just how low the offer was. I'm not saying this is the case here, but there are plenty of posts on the Rejected Offers thread that reek more of people just playing games and trying to get a rise out of someone, rather than a legitimate effort to get the best deal possible. 10%, 20%, even 25% off the listed price seems like good negotiating. Throwing out an offer that's 40%+ below the list is just wasting everyone's time. Making 5 or 6 or 10 similar offers? Well...

Not every lowball offer can be justified with "well, you never know until you ask"? Sure you do. Again, not saying that is the case here, but I'm seeing more and more of these crazy "lowball" offer posts in that thread since ROFR ended, and I can imagine there are more than a few brokers who have heard more than their fair share of ridiculously low offers that were never going to go anywhere.

Still zero reason to be rude. Just ignore and delete, or send a simple boilerplate response and be done with it.

There were 3 BLT contracts listed by the same company. Two of them were roughly equivalent. One was listed at $132 and the other at $163.

Should the agent handling the $163 listing give a snarky reply to an offer of $130?

Yes, I think its a douche move on their part, I don't really ever bother making offers to those brokers anymore.
It's like they don't want to admit people are buying contracts that much cheaper than they are asking, so they pretend your the ****** for asking... but trust me you're not. When they're asking is 40% higher, that's on them for not taking offers.

Maybe it's kind of like Disney, charge more, so you don't need as many customers.? lol

 

[DonMacGregor]

I completely agree that there are some outlandish offers that people make that should be rejected. But with--let's call them Broker X--I once made an offer of $105 per point on a $125 per point contract. Did I expect to get it for $105? No. I expected to be countered with something in the middle.

But I don't think anyone, in any circumstance, would suggest that 10%-15% below the listed price even remotely qualifies as "lowball". It's when people are offering $75-$80 on that $120 contract...

Now, if that $120 listing was already at or below market and priced to move, then I would anticipate that %15 below list might not peak any interest, but in neither circumstance should the response be rude.

 

[Sandisw]

I question whether some of the brokers have any idea about the market.

Market is what buyer and seller decide is fair and brokers are all going to use their own info to guide that.

If broker X is selling for less, broker Y isn’t going to decide to change for thse sake of that.

I agree rudeness is not needed but I have dealt with many brokers and some are just a bit more direct than others.

While I never had any broker say they wouldn’t submit my offers, I have no real idea if they did when it was lower than average.

 

[disneylandtour]

Maybe it's kind of like Disney, charge more, so you don't need as many customers.? lol

Resale is a volume business--there's not a production base then profit, it's all percentages. These brokers typically get around 9% per contract. Probably half stays with the company and half goes to the individual broker. So it's far, far better for them to sell three 150 point contracts at $130 per point than one contract at $150 per point--far better. But some seem to be actively working against this model.

 

[zavandor]

There is no excuse for rudeness.

For my first contract, I did a few lowball offers that were rejected but I ended up buying a contract from them later. Had they been initially rude they would have lost that business (and a second contract I bought from them one year later too).
It takes 30 seconds to send a corteous but firm answer using a template.

 

[Disney Mickey&Minnie Fan]

How many different businesses resell DVC?
Are there many reselling DVC or just a couple businesses?

We are starting to look at the DVC resale market and are beginning to read about the process.
What are the most important considerations after price and DVC resort selection?

Do we select a DVC resale business, then a broker within that business?
Any helpful suggestions appreciated.

 

[Chili327]

How many different businesses resell DVC?
Are there many reselling DVC or just a couple businesses?

We are starting to look at the DVC resale market and are beginning to read about the process.
What are the most important considerations after price and DVC resort selection?

Do we select a DVC resale business, then a broker within that business?
Any helpful suggestions appreciated.

Yes, there are many.
https://www.disboards.com/threads/dear-dvc-resale-brokers….3911904/#post-64656070

You would find a contract then use whatever broker is the one listing it... much like buying a house.

 

[Genie+]

Maybe it’s getting frustrating for this broker. I’m not positive, doesn’t resale typically dip going in to the holidays especially around November? This summer also took demand away from resale when potential buyers moved to direct. The broker could be fielding a high ratio of ‘going nowhere’ inquiries to actual sales, while actual sales are falling and likely to get worse before improving. Dejected, they take it out with the rude response.

While unprofessional, if I was making serious offers with full intent to buy now I wouldn’t take it personally, maybe even sympathize and probably just avoid the broker (little chance they’ll release a unicorn anyway). I dunno… when people act nasty it often has more to do with them than what they lash out on. That’s where I can sympathize - most people don’t enjoy losing their self control. Just a temporary release valve.

 

[DanCali]

The ignoring part I referenced was a preferred alternative to having a rude reply back. Like mentioned above a simple boilerplate response would be more than sufficient. As for my “lowball” offer it is always within a few dollars of RECENTLY accepted prices on the ROFR page. So no there is no asking for 40% off or anything like that. I’m looking for a deal but not crazy. Would anyone here think that 130 for PVB is asking to be given it for free? Also the way I work and the way I purchased my last contract was by offering and having a counter. So if they countered I would then counter back and so on. The biggest problem from what I experienced is this one particular agent at this company I haven’t worked with till this point. Most of the bigger houses (I assume this isn’t a big outfit) I’ve given what I would think similar offers and always met with courtesy. In fact I just received two emails from two other brokers who couldn’t have been nicer. I’m just surprised an email with such strong and aggressive language can be used by someone in a professional capacity.

It's highly possible there is a bias to what's posted on the ROFR page? First off, people who follow these boards are probably among the savviest owners. I also think that (some) of the posts on the ROFR page are have an element of bragging to them - buyers are probably more likely post on the ROFR if they snagged a great deal (nobody wants to get called out for overpaying, but it is nice to get a lot of likes for finding a "unicorn"), and now others might see that as the "going market price".

I actually do follow Poly prices and even bid of a few small contracts myself. But I look at listings coming and going, not the ROFR page. I don't think $130 is ridiculously low (certainly doesn't merit a reprimand from a broker!) but it is probably somewhat of a reach, unless the contract is fully stripped and/or on the larger side, or the seller is highly motivated.

Here's a suggestion - try looking at the board sponsor web page and screen by "sale pending" and "offer accepted". You will see the asking prices of those grayed-out listings, but also take a look at the "Date Listed" of those individual listings. If something was listed for less than 30 days and is now "pending", I suspect most of those owners got what they asked for, or very close to that. That may give you a different view of what sellers/brokers expect is realistic, beyond the ROFR page (for all we know, none of those "pending" listings may be on the ROFR page).

 

[TheDailyMoo]

While unprofessional, if I was making serious offers with full intent to buy now I wouldn’t take it personally, maybe even sympathize and probably just avoid the broker (little chance they’ll release a unicorn anyway). I dunno… when people act nasty it often has more to do with them than what they lash out on. That’s where I can sympathize - most people don’t enjoy losing their self control. Just a temporary release valve.

I wrote something above exactly to your point before I saw this. I agree everyone is allowed to get frustrated however:
1) If you work in a professional setting you HAVE to try your best to not be a rude and nasty person to a potential customer especially considering I didn't send any previous messages of rudeness. It's one thing to reciprocate but to just come out and be nasty...not a great look
2)She wrote am email which takes thought and premeditation. Saying something spur of the moment is one thing but to type out a nasty response of me being ridiculous and stop wasting my time is kinda out there!
3)You are correct this company isn't going to turn around and be like ok sure take it and I'm not interested in working with anyone that belittles me for no reason. So yes you're correct in your assessment. It is what it is. And normally I wouldn't post something like this but I've seen it brought up before and kinda didn't believe it!

 

[JackosinDIS]

I’ve been making offers today and was worrying about going in at 13% below asking in case I got berated by the broker lol.

However they were very polite and happily presented the offer… which was countered, and I’m sure we’ll reach a position that both parties are happy with.

Had they been rude or condescending I would have walked in an instant. Can’t see how this helps anyone!

 

[TheDailyMoo]

It's highly possible there is a bias to what's posted on the ROFR page? First off, people who follow these boards are probably among the savviest owners. I also think that (some) of the posts on the ROFR page are have an element of bragging to them - buyers are probably more likely post on the ROFR if they snagged a great deal (nobody wants to get called out for overpaying, but it is nice to get a lot of likes for finding a "unicorn"), and now others might see that as the "going market price".

I actually do follow Poly prices and even bid of a few small contracts myself. But I look at listings coming and going, not the ROFR page. I don't think $130 is ridiculously low (certainly doesn't merit a reprimand from a broker!) but it is probably somewhat of a reach, unless the contract is stripped and/or on the larger side, or the seller is highly motivated.

Here's a suggestion - try looking at the board sponsor web page and screen by "sale pending" and "offer accepted". You will see the asking prices of those grayed-out listings, but also take a look at the "Date Listed" of those individual listings. If something was listed for less than 30 days and is now "pending", I suspect most of those owners got what they asked for, or very close to that. That may give you a different view of what sellers/brokers expect is realistic, beyond the ROFR page (for all we know, none of those "pending" listings may be on the ROFR page).

Oh I'm well aware there are some real snipers of contracts on these boards lol! And I also know many people's styles are different when it comes to buying big ticket items or negotiating terms. I come from a mindset of I would like to pay the least that is acceptable for something I would like and I approach it as such. If I really want something or need it I'll pay up. If I don't have an immediate need but would like it...like another contract...I'll see if I can get it for the price I want and if not oh well. So I usually start off within a few dollars of known accepted prices because if they got it for that...then why couldn't I. It's a mindset. I would never offer VB prices for PVB. I wouldn't offer VB prices for SSR! Again was just taken aback. I accept rejection but I don't really take kindly to unsolicited rudeness and aggression.

 

[Genie+]

It's one thing to reciptocate but to just coume out and be nasty...not a great look

Absolutely. Unprofessional and a good way to damage their networking.

I was thinking along the lines of why and how to take it. Whether they intended to burn you with their wrath or they just lost the plot for a minute, not taking it personally helps wither way. There’s many other green pastures with unicorns to be found.

I’d love a Poly $135 or less! There has been some action there this year. Back during the Covid dip one or two brokers wrote articles about what they thought was the best deal going - Poly at $140 or under (it was going in the $120 to $140 range). Solid reasoning. We still regret not jumping in then. We paid several rental trips and still long for Poly lol. Oh regrets.

 

[DanCali]

Oh I'm well aware there are some real snipers of contracts on these boards lol! And I also know many people's styles are different when it comes to buying big ticket items or negotiating terms. I come from a mindset of I would like to pay the least that is acceptable for something I would like and I approach it as such. If I really want something or need it I'll pay up. If I don't have an immediate need but would like it...like another contract...I'll see if I can get it for the price I want and if not oh well. So I usually start off within a few dollars of known accepted prices because if they got it for that...then why couldn't I. It's a mindset. I would never offer VB prices for PVB. I wouldn't offer VB prices for SSR! Again was just taken aback. I accept rejection but I don't really take kindly to unsolicited rudeness and aggression.

Makes sense... I have no idea how big of a contract you're looking for. But in the case of smaller contracts I also often ask myself how sorry I'd be if it went off the market and I lost it because I tried to haggle over the last $2-$4/point (which is pretty immaterial overall for a 50-75 point contract). It's sometimes hard enough finding the right contract size and use year...

Another thing worth doing is if a listing you bid on goes off the market, you can call the broker you dealt with (not the nasty one!) and just politely ask what it sold for. I have a broker who made enough commissions from me that I'm not shy to email and ask!

And there there is of course the "brute force" way where you can look at actual recorded deeds in Orange County for the last few months, which will give you information on actual selling prices but not how stripped or loaded the contracts were. Fortunately, in the case of Poly that's a lot easier than when I tried to do it for Riviera, where over 95% of sales are direct.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I've always found it odd that people would get emotionally invested in a timeshare transaction. It's not like one contract will come with an updated kitchen or a secret pool. Points are points.

 

[RichVIII]

In typical real estate transactions, agents spend days, often weeks - showing houses, driving distances, and actually writing up a contract. Here there is a form. They get an offer - they email the owner. Owner responds. Maybe another round of email but then a contract is drawn up. The work certainly comes after the fact but the upfront effort with offers is fairly minimal compared to traditional real estate.

I am sure the brokers are feeling the decline in sales price and volume - they all essentially have gotten pay cuts but there is no need to be rude.

 

[DanCali]

I am sure the brokers are feeling the decline in sales price and volume - they all essentially have gotten pay cuts but there is no need to be rude.

There are 120 listings out there that have been active for over 12 months and another 220 active between 6-12 months. That's over 20% of all listings and a lot of potential sales/commissions. Maybe they should do a better job setting some sellers' expectations instead of telling them what they want to hear just to earn the listing.

 

[Chili327]

Maybe it’s getting frustrating for this broker. I’m not positive, doesn’t resale typically dip going in to the holidays especially around November? This summer also took demand away from resale when potential buyers moved to direct. The broker could be fielding a high ratio of ‘going nowhere’ inquiries to actual sales, while actual sales are falling and likely to get worse before improving. Dejected, they take it out with the rude response.

While unprofessional, if I was making serious offers with full intent to buy now I wouldn’t take it personally, maybe even sympathize and probably just avoid the broker (little chance they’ll release a unicorn anyway). I dunno… when people act nasty it often has more to do with them than what they lash out on. That’s where I can sympathize - most people don’t enjoy losing their self control. Just a temporary release valve.

There are 120 listings out there that have been active for over 12 months and another 220 active between 6-12 months. That's over 20% of all listings and a lot of potential sales/commissions. Maybe they should do a better job setting some sellers' expectations instead of telling them what they want to hear just to earn the listing.

Yea, its pretty obvious when you see similar listings priced higher in some places, & consistently cheaper in others.

 

[tom1944]

Makes sense... I have no idea how big of a contract you're looking for. But in the case of smaller contracts I also often ask myself how sorry I'd be if it went off the market and I lost it because I tried to haggle over the last $2-$4/point (which is pretty immaterial overall for a 50-75 point contract). It's sometimes hard enough finding the right contract size and use year...

Another thing worth doing is if a listing you bid on goes off the market, you can call the broker you dealt with (not the nasty one!) and just politely ask what it sold for. I have a broker who made enough commissions from me that I'm not shy to email and ask!

And there there is of course the "brute force" way where you can look at actual recorded deeds in Orange County for the last few months, which will give you information on actual selling prices but not how stripped or loaded the contracts were. Fortunately, in the case of Poly that's a lot easier than when I tried to do it for Riviera, where over 95% of sales are direct.

I plan to do the brute force way and have a spreadsheet listing all the sales in the point range I plan to offer on.

I will do a period of 60 days.

 

[jjanne]

It's highly possible there is a bias to what's posted on the ROFR page? First off, people who follow these boards are probably among the savviest owners. I also think that (some) of the posts on the ROFR page are have an element of bragging to them - buyers are probably more likely post on the ROFR if they snagged a great deal (nobody wants to get called out for overpaying, but it is nice to get a lot of likes for finding a "unicorn"), and now others might see that as the "going market price".

I actually do follow Poly prices and even bid of a few small contracts myself. But I look at listings coming and going, not the ROFR page. I don't think $130 is ridiculously low (certainly doesn't merit a reprimand from a broker!) but it is probably somewhat of a reach, unless the contract is fully stripped and/or on the larger side, or the seller is highly motivated.

Here's a suggestion - try looking at the board sponsor web page and screen by "sale pending" and "offer accepted". You will see the asking prices of those grayed-out listings, but also take a look at the "Date Listed" of those individual listings. If something was listed for less than 30 days and is now "pending", I suspect most of those owners got what they asked for, or very close to that. That may give you a different view of what sellers/brokers expect is realistic, beyond the ROFR page (for all we know, none of those "pending" listings may be on the ROFR page).

@DanCali - interested in looking into your suggestion. what is the board sponsor’s website you are referencing.