Wow! Kobe Bryant criminal case dropped!

[LisaSt]

Pongo I agree if it was a true rape the woman would more than likeley be deathly afraid to go to another man for much of anything but for her to go and have sex again afterwards leaves little to say other than scam artist or maybe gold digger or something to that nature. I stand by my original statement that she wanted to get money from him and when he didn't she cried rapesad as that is.

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

Though I believe that girl had know buisness going to his room, he was still a married man who should have remembered that large detail. How many other women has he been with in the name of money? I guess having money and fame can buy you anything. He got real lucky! He will now probably be turning to god,and thanking his wife for all her love and support. Give him a few months he will be right back in the saddle again,maybe a little more selective. Good luck to his wife she's the stupid one! I guess that is what money is all about!

 

[POOH&PIGLET]

I can’t believe the number of ignorant statements in this thread. For example:

And I also would like to see the laws changed so that alleged rape victims must have their names in the public forum. If the accused has to be identified, the alleged victim should have to be identified as well.

Rape is tremendously underreported as it is, this will only make matters worse. Is that what you want?

In this case, there was absolutely no physical evidence to support her claims of rape.

How often do rape cases have physical evidence? No physical injuries doesn’t mean no rape.

Women that have been raped have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, and IMO, when we continue to hide their identities, we perpetuate the myth that they have done something wrong.

Correct, they have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Their identity is hidden to give them privacy. Do you think our society is so enlightened that a rape victim will not be treated differently? Also, will she be able to get medical insurance or will she be denied because she is at-risk for AIDS, etc.?

Notice, I didn’t say stupid, I said ignorant.

 

[AirForceRocks]

I can’t believe the number of ignorant statements in this thread. For example:

So anyone that doesn't agree with you is necessarily ignorant? Please.

Rape is tremendously underreported as it is, this will only make matters worse. Is that what you want?

No that's not what I want, but I also don't believe that it's right than men that have not been proven guilty can be drug through the mud while the women that are accusing them can hide their identities.

Also, will she be able to get medical insurance or will she be denied because she is at-risk for AIDS, etc.?

Are you implying that rape victims currently lie about their circumstances when they apply for health insurance? If not, then what difference would it make whether or not their identities are made public?

 

[Toby'sFriend]

How often do rape cases have physical evidence? No physical injuries doesn’t mean no rape.

Did you even bother to read my entire post before declaring me ignorant? If that is the type of consideration that you expect most of your jurors to give your arguements --- I can see why you might want to exclude women such as me from deciding rape cases.

How about the part where I said:

No I'm sorry, I can't. That doesn't necessarily mean that she wasn't raped --- just that if I had to weigh one story against another, I would feel obligated to err on the side of caution and not send a man to jail with that set of facts.[/b]

as umm -- ignorant as that may be, I have to stand by it. Not only was there no physical evidence in this case, there was also a very shaky set of circumstances which would cause many people to question exactly what this woman's intentions were when she went into that hotel room and exactly at what point in time did she decide she had been raped.

 

[LisaSt]

Well said Toby's Friend I have a feeling and it is only a feeling she knew what she was planning and wanted from the time she saw hiw come into the hotel. Why else would she just come to his room for a KISS come on get with the program girl you do not go to a star athletes room for just a kiss and then have sex with him and then another guy after that if you are not planning to cause some problems not only for yourself but for the other people you have slept with. She obviously didn't think the whole thing through before she did it or she wouldn't have had sex with somone else afterwards. That or she didn't have any marks etc so she needed the second partner to help with that which who knows could very well be the case. Maybe they were in on it together and figured Kobe would just pay up rather than risk his wife and the public finding out what he had done.

 

[poohandwendy]

I think this whole thing could be solved by making it impossible for victims of crimes to seek monetary compensation via civil lawsuit other than for medical expenses or loss of wages.

You never hear about Joe Schmoe rapist being sued for monetary compensation. Why is that? Are the damages greater when you are raped by a wealthy man?

Why is public humiliation deemed more significant for women who are raped than men whose reputations are tarnished by wrongful accusations?

Take the possibility of blackmail out of the equation (civil suits) and allow the criminal justice system to decide the fate of criminals, not the civil system.

I think it would keep people a bit more honest.

 

[Kendra17]

Originally posted by POOH&PIGLET

How often do rape cases have physical evidence? No physical injuries doesn’t mean no rape.

Notice, I didn’t say stupid, I said ignorant.

I think many rape cases DO have physical evidence. . .you must be referring to witnesses. Most rape cases do not have eyewitness evidence, but most rapes DO leave physical evidence.

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

Regarding the release of rape victim’s names: I absolutely disagree! I don’t like seeing men falsely accused and I don’t like to see victims exploited. But the fact is, false accusations, as horrible as they are, are quite rare. Rape, on the other hand, is very, very common. I would rather see a few innocent men exploited by being falsely accused than millions of rape victims exploited and further humiliated, which will only have the effect of keeping rape victims from coming forward. And make no mistake, we ALL benefit when these brave women come forward and have these creeps prosecuted, because they remove these monsters from the street and keep us and our daughters safer! These women deserve our admiration, respect, and support…not our cattiness and hatred.

I would prefer to see any err occur in favor of the alleged victim since in the majority of cases, the alleged victim is telling the truth. Perhaps there should be a way to punish people when it’s proven beyond a doubt that she lied, but to humiliate woman after they’ve been raped by making their situation public serves only do re-victimize them. Also, it’s very easy to say that the victim “shouldn’t” feel humiliated, but that just isn’t the way the world works. To many people, sex is very personal, even under the best of circumstances. Most women just can’t deal with the public knowing they were forced into nonconsensual sex with a stranger or acquaintance…especially since in most rape cases, so many people doubt the victims integrity.

Many of you have accused this woman of framing Bryant. The thing is, if her intent were to frame the man, don’t you think she would have done a better job of it? Her reaction was that of an irrational and out-of-control victim. She did not behave in a calculated manner at all. Had she planned to frame a rape, or even decided immediately afterwards that she was going to plan a rape, I’m sure she would had enough sense to know that having sex right afterwards would NOT be in her best interest. Even if she isn’t very bright, I guarantee she knew that having multiple sex partners would hinder her case.

What seems to bother people here the most is that the victim had sex immediately after the rape. That is actually one of two common but unhealthy sexual reactions to a rape. Some rape victims fear sex so much that they chose to disengage from their intimate partners, sometimes for the rest of their lives. Others desperately want to regain control over their body and thus chose to have sex to prove that they have control over who they sleep with. While that’s not a wise thing to do because of the legalities involved around a rape, psychologically speaking I can almost understand why she did it.

The response of a victim of rape (and the rapist) is frequently similar to the response of a battered woman and her abuser. All too often, when police arrive at the scene of a domestic disturbance, the woman is hysterical and out of control…often behaving in ways that makes HER appear guilty. The abuser is more often than not cool, calm and able to convince the police, or in this case, the world, that he or she is innocent. Abusers are notorious for appearing likable, clean cut and charming. To somebody not trained in crisis intervention, it appears that the woman is the cause the disturbance. In reality, whether it is rape or domestic violence, the victim is usually out of control and highly emotional while the abuser is in full control…which, of course, is the very thing the abuser is seeking…control over the victim. If you’re looking for a rational-behaving calm-thinking victim, I promise, you won’t find many. You can toss out all the “she should haves” in the world, but that just doesn’t make it the way it is.

Grief in response to death is another (more common than rape) emotional state in which people frequently react in ways counter to what outsiders think is “normal.” I don’t know how many times I’ve heard about such and such or so and so who didn’t cry at the funeral or who started dating a week after her husband died. Again, this is an example of how people react differently to crisis. It absolutely doesn’t make them bad, nor does it mean they aren’t hurting or aren’t true victims. People react in all kinds of interesting ways to crisis, and the bottom line is you really ought to be cautious passing judgment until you’ve walked in the victim’s shoes.

One more thing. I don’t give a **** if that woman went to Bryant’s room for a kiss. Why is that a dumb thing to do? A kiss is a kiss; it is not an invitation for sex. If she established that she only wanted a kiss, then what right would he have to go forward with anything beyond a kiss? Why is it that women are expected to “behave” and men aren’t? If she trusted this man and went to his room and he raped her, HE was the one who misbehaved and used poor judgment! And PLEASE nobody give me the old myth about guys being unable to stop if they get too excited. What bull! Women…stop victimizing each other further, stand together, and realize that no means no and it’s never ok…NEVER ok to force somebody to have sex against their will! Someday YOU may be the one out there in the spotlight wishing people would stop blaming you for getting raped.

 

[AirForceRocks]

No one has said that it's ever OK to force a woman to have sex . But I stand by my belief that it's stupid for women to put themselves into potentially dangerous situations and then be surprised when something happens.

As for not releasing names, sorry, but the woman's reputation and privacy is no more important than the man's, especially before it's even been proven that the man is even guilty.

 

[Mermaid02]

"Many of you have accused this woman of framing Bryant. The thing is, if her intent were to frame the man, don’t you think she would have done a better job of it?"

I think she was/is young, not terribly stable and yes, greedy... so no I don't think she would have done a "better job".

In my opinion it is FAR too easy to accuse a man of rape and while his name is dragged through the sewer- the accuser hides in the shadows.....

We have to teach our girls if they are the victim of a sexual assault they need NOT be ashamed and they need to stand up for themselves in the court system..... hold their heads high... they did nothing wrong.

 

[poohandwendy]

And PLEASE nobody give me the old myth about guys being unable to stop if they get too excited. What bull! Women…stop victimizing each other further, stand together, and realize that no means no and it’s never ok…NEVER ok to force somebody to have sex against their will! Someday YOU may be the one out there in the spotlight wishing people would stop blaming you for getting raped.

Not one person here said anything about men not being able to control their urges, so spare me the histrionics.

Sorry, but I will not 'stand together' when I believe the accuser is lying. I am not victimizing anyone by not believing a story that, IMO, is just not believable.

I would rather see a few innocent men exploited by being falsely accused than millions of rape victims exploited and further humiliated, which will only have the effect of keeping rape victims from coming forward.

That is a shame that you feel men being exploited is less important than women being exploited. Women should have no reason to be ashamed that they were victimized. Hiding their names is an antiquated 'women are forever soiled' message and gives the impression that there is something to hide, IMO.

Men who rape should be prosecuted to the fullest.

Women who falsely accuse a man of rape should also be prosecuted, IMHO.

In this case, I (and it looks like a few others here also ) just don't believe the accuser.

 

[POOH&PIGLET]

Originally posted by Kendra17
I think many rape cases DO have physical evidence. . .you must be referring to witnesses. Most rape cases do not have eyewitness evidence, but most rapes DO leave physical evidence.

Yes your right. (I had about 2 minutes to type my post yesterday as I was heading out the door.) Many rape cases have physical evidence like semen, saliva, blood, or other items that go toward the identity of the perpetrator. What I was trying to say is in the vast majority of rape cases, there are not physical injuries.

So anyone that doesn't agree with you is necessarily ignorant? Please.

What good will come from changing the laws to make rape victims names public? If you think this through, what you complain about, innocent men being falsely accused, will not be affected by a change in the law.

Is it fair for a man to be falsely accused? Of course not. Ask yourself why there are laws to protect rape / sexual abuse victims. Why is rape so underreported? Do you have any idea how difficult it is for a rape victim to come forward? If women knew their name might get in the newspaper, they might not come forward. Why can’t a rape victim have some privacy? Her life as she knew it is already over.

Doing away with rape shield laws will not prevent or even reduce false accusations, it will only prevent real victims from coming forward.



I have never met and do not know any of the posters on this thread so if I am misspeaking now (out of ignorance), please forgive me. That being said, many posts (specifically excluding Dakota_Lynn's wonderful post) show a lack of understanding (and hence ignorance) about rape and its effects women. It bothers me when the public has so many misconceptions about rape and rape victims.

If your next-door neighbor were the victim of a minor crime, (stolen car, purse snatched, etc.) would you think any differently of them? Now let us assume your next-door neighbor was the victim of a rape. Would treat them differently? Maybe you wouldn’t but the vast majority of others would. The fear of what others will think of them is another reason why victims don’t come forward. Shouldn’t the victim have a right to privacy? Why should her name be made public? If she wants her neighbors to know what happened, she can tell them.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

OMG- It's so nice to see POOH&PIGLET posting on this thread. Thank heavens we have people like him/her out there!

 

[LisaSt]

Yes but P&P wouldn't you also want to know who the accuser was. Maybe they have done this before and have a history of it. A little background info on the victim is always nice. If they are going to hide the victims name then they should be made to hide the perpatrators name atleast until the trial is over and they are found guilty and that I believe is what AFR is trying to get across. The man has his name dragged through the mud from day one guilty or not and if he is found not guilty or is falsley accused it doens't make it any better for him his name has still been tarnished along with his reputation. Can you honestly tell me that if you hear so and so was accused of rape and is going to trial that you are not going to have some ill feelings towards that person. If you do and then he is cleard or it is found he was falsley accused that is great but his name and reputation among other things have been hurt by this so should teh man be avble to then draw a civil suit against his acuser for monetary damages and loss of wages etc kind of a double standard if you ask me. So whats good for the goose is good for the gander until it is somethig like this then forget it not correct and I think AFR is correct it shoulf be changed.

 

[POOH&PIGLET]

"I think this whole thing could be solved by making it impossible for victims of crimes to seek monetary compensation via civil lawsuit other than for medical expenses or loss of wages."
I don't know what the "whole thing" is that will be solved. So what you are saying is that a car accident victim should be allowed to collect money for pain and suffering but a crime victim shouldn't. Want to rethink that one?

"You never hear about Joe Schmoe rapist being sued for monetary compensation. Why is that?"
You don't hear about it because it isn't newsworthy. Do you really expect to read about lawsuits in the newspaper or see it on TV? You hear about celebrities when the a charged with any crime.

"Are the damages greater when you are raped by a wealthy man?"
Of course not, but there is a greater chance to recover.

"Why is public humiliation deemed more significant for women who are raped than men whose reputations are tarnished by wrongful accusations?"
You have no clue. How many women are raped / sexually abused? More than you and I will ever know. How many innocent men are falsely accused? Very few.

"Take the possibility of blackmail out of the equation (civil suits) and allow the criminal justice system to decide the fate of criminals, not the civil system."
The criminal justice system is well equipped to decide the fate of criminals. When a civil suit is filed, it greatly decreases the chance of conviction, even in the Joe Schmoe scenario.

 

[AirForceRocks]

You have no clue. How many women are raped / sexually abused? More than you and I will ever know. How many innocent men are falsely accused? Very few.

The number is completely irrelevent. Are you saying that it's OK to ruin the reputation of innocent men since it won't happen very often? That's disturbing.

I think this whole "protect the poor woman" concept used in rape accusations smacks of paternalism.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
The number is completely irrelevent. Are you saying that it's OK to ruin the reputation of innocent men since it won't happen very often? That's disturbing.

I think this whole "protect the poor woman" concept used in rape accusations smacks of paternalism.

Your "protect the poor man" attitude perhaps explains why women are so catty with each other, and constantly stab each other in the back all of the time.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Your "protect the poor man" attitude perhaps explains why women are so catty with each other, and constantly stab each other in the back all of the time.

So I take it that you have no problem having a man's name drug through the mud for rape before it's even determined if a rape has taken place? Why is that?

 

[Maleficent13]

I like PAW's suggestions above.

I tend to think that this girl is disturbed and in need of help, whether she was raped or not.