Wow how things have changed.

[revdon64]

I am here to report that there is life after Disney! We stopped going years ago when they took away some of our favorite things. We started going to Seaworld, Busch Gardens and Aquatica and hung out and ate at the resorts. Now these aren’t what they used to be so we switched to Silver Dollar City. It was so nice to see over 6 million Christmas lights that included the Osbourne Lights that used to be at Studios. It was magical! Big Cedar is as nice as any Disney resort.

Maybe now is the best time to make new memories at new places. Everything is changing fast and we feel like new places are better than going to old favorites and noticing everything we have lost.

I'll second this. We've gone to WDW every 1.5-2yrs for the last 15yrs or so, but in 2021 we went to Eastern Tennessee - Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge/Dollywood and it was great! So much to see and do and the scenery is outstanding! After a quick 3-day CSR stay in March for my wife's PhD graduation, we're going back to Tennessee in July. We literally have no thoughts about returning to WDW after this last quick trip.

 

[ppony]

I completely understand what you’re saying but there’s zero indications any changes they’ve made have harmed them in any ways. There’s no history of price increases, etc harming them, is there? So, why would the most recent changes be any different?

Actually, Disney's stocks were in a free-fall last year. They're listed as one of the 5 don't-by stocks of 2022. I'm no wall street gal, but that seems to indicate to me that they see them dropping more without relative soon rebound. I didn't do a deep dive into it, but marked disappointment in the park performance was a biggie. Unless things have changed in the past few years, the parks are *the* major profit engine for the corporation lately, so sentiments increasing like we see here in this thread are a bad harbinger. They're already hurting.

 

[ScottOKW2K]

I don't understand what people do with all these recordings where they feel the need to thrust their phones up in the air into peoples view. Like they're going to re-watch fireworks? It's happening a lot for everything these days - FotLK is horrible about this too, like people are going to rewatch a 30 second clip?

I completely agree! When I am there for the fireworks I want to be involved in it - I look forward to that "eyes up, jaw down" feeling .
I remember one time where I was watching Illuminations and there was this guy off to the side of me that was recording it with his cell phone and a slr on a tripod. I'm sure he recorded it but I highly doubt if he actually experienced it.
I do admit that as a nerd when all in front of me were recording, phones held high in the air that I did have the desire for a portable EMP generator.

 

[DSNY4ever]

I am having a really hard time trying to figure out all the new changes. Our cancelled trip from April 2020 is now approaching and I'm trying to figure it all out. Is there any reason to buy a magic band? This will be our last Disneyworld trip, so we won't use them again. So skip that- right? And I can't seem to find an in depth article on how to actually use Genie+ and ILL. Can someone direct me to an article that shows which attractions are included in both and how much these ILL rides cost?

 

[pixiedust2u]

I am having a really hard time trying to figure out all the new changes. Our cancelled trip from April 2020 is now approaching and I'm trying to figure it all out. Is there any reason to buy a magic band? This will be our last Disneyworld trip, so we won't use them again. So skip that- right? And I can't seem to find an in depth article on how to actually use Genie+ and ILL. Can someone direct me to an article that shows which attractions are included in both and how much these ILL rides cost?

https://forum.touringplans.com/t/the-genie-thread-all-wdw-info-here/81599

 

[DSNY4ever]

https://forum.touringplans.com/t/the-genie-thread-all-wdw-info-here/81599

Thank you so much, that is great. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with all the changes and new info!

 

[pixiedust2u]

I am having a really hard time trying to figure out all the new changes. Our cancelled trip from April 2020 is now approaching and I'm trying to figure it all out. Is there any reason to buy a magic band? This will be our last Disneyworld trip, so we won't use them again. So skip that- right? And I can't seem to find an in depth article on how to actually use Genie+ and ILL. Can someone direct me to an article that shows which attractions are included in both and how much these ILL rides cost?

Def do your research…. But also know that many people seem to have had success without use of genie+. Mostly by utilizing rope drop, and extra evening hours (if eligible). So don’t feel like you have to use genie as plenty of people have seemed to get a lot done without it! If it feels more overwhelming than helpful, don’t be afraid of skipping it.
Regarding magic bands- do you have any from prior trips? You can use those if you do, otherwise no you don’t need them. They more convenience than necessary. Most everything can be done with your phone.
While you’re researching genie etc. also brush up on mobile ordering and as it gets closer what time the parks are actually allowing guests in vs what the posted opening time is. The here and now thread is a good one to watch.

 

[gregskellington]

So a couple things here, yes everyone has the same chance - but you're missing the point if these same people that struggled with FP+ are going to struggle with Genie+ there's really no change in some people being ahead of others in what they get out of it. I'll be honest I hate the change because we were huge planners and I would much rather wake up once 60 days in advance(at 3am PST) to take care of FP+ planning then have to worry about it at 7am everyday of our vacation, it adds so much more anxiety for me personally to not have any idea of how timing is going to work. But people are different, I get it and this benefits those peops. Preplanning for us was flawless - it was refreshing to know once we stepped off the plane and got on magic express everything was already taken care of.

I think they should have just kept FP+ and charged out the kazoo for the ability to pre-book them. Whatever was left day of (and there was always things left) would be free. Genie+ didn't alleviate any of the line problems that FP+ caused.

I literally don't understand this point. With FP+, someone comes on vacation and didn't know about it - there is nothing anyone can do for them except educate them for it next trip, save maybe getting a FP for a low tier attraction. The FP are all long gone and there is no way to set this person up on the same playing field as everyone else.

With Genie, they can have their first day waiting in all standby and complain to a cast member. That vast member can teach them about Genie to use the rest of their trip! Every day moving forward, they are on the same page as everyone else. I don't understand how there can be an argument that this system is not explicitly more fair for everyone. Am I defending Genie as a standalone product? NO. Am I defending it in comparison to the abomination that was FP+? YES.

 

[Elephantay]

I'm also disappointed in what Disney world has become. We went last weekend and the most enjoyable part was the After Hours Event, you could actually get on rides timely. But outside of that, it was over crowded and people have become really obnoxious. I saw numerous instances where people were jerks to Castmembers and other guests just because they couldn't get their way. It was awful. And when did Epcot become a complete adult drunkfest? I get the ability to walk around with a beer (I do) but the HUGE lines to just get alcohol ($9+) and the drunks cursing and being boorish, come on. Epcot is no longer a place for kids or sane adults. I'm lucky that Disney is 2hrs away and we're passholders so it's not as stressful to get everything in but I would not fly in and spend a week there. Way too much stress. On a positive note, Disney was training new castmembers everywhere. So hopefully that will make a difference.

We lost our love for Epcot years ago when we saw liquor lines every fifty yards and people literally puking as we walked past them with our kids. It was horrible!

 

[Ohiostatefan606]

I am having a really hard time trying to figure out all the new changes. Our cancelled trip from April 2020 is now approaching and I'm trying to figure it all out. Is there any reason to buy a magic band? This will be our last Disneyworld trip, so we won't use them again. So skip that- right? And I can't seem to find an in depth article on how to actually use Genie+ and ILL. Can someone direct me to an article that shows which attractions are included in both and how much these ILL rides cost?

We leave next week and I am planning on using our magic bands to enter the park, room key and for any LL reservations scan in. I just feel like it is so easy. Our phones are all password protected, you have to open the app, wait for it load...... just ugh.

I know others provided info on Genie+ and ILL, but my favorite is WDW Prep School - Genie info

 

[Tink-osophy]

We are skipping the parks in 2022. We are DVC members and normally go multiple times per year with tickets, character meals etc. We are using the points some for resort only stays and universal. I remember our first disney trip in 2016 coming home and telling a friend how everything at Disney World makes it easy for families. Magical express with luggage delivered so you don’t have to push a stroller and haul a suitcase at the same time, three fast passes you could book ahead so on the day of you don’t have to worry about figuring out what to do, big buffets where even the pickiest eaters could eat well and the characters come right up to your table. I said all those things because that’s what made Disney stand out at a vacation destination. We’ve been several times in 2021 and each time it just felt like WORK. Such a shame. I think the people making decisions at Disney HQ are just totally out of touch with the guest experience. They need to spend a day in Hollywood studios as a regular guest with no VIP tour and see if that is an experience they would pay for.

Exactly, they used to look after you. That was the Disney brand.

I hate to say that I agree with you, but I agree with you. Last year I sold my DVC at VGF for a very nice profit, and just yesterday I canceled my upcoming trip in February to WDW. There are just way too many cutbacks, limited experiences, elimination of benefits along with Genie+ and LL to name a few, I just am losing interest in longer stays to WDW. Never thought I'd get to this place, but that is where I am at right now. WDW used to be our go-to almost every year but now looks like it's going to be a once in a while thing for us in the near future.

Surely, Disney has to take notice of all this at some point?

Interestingly enough, I am starting to notice more and more complaining in the Disney Facebook groups I am in across the board (with maybe the exception of DCL). The only people who seem to be championing the changes are the influencers, and even that seems to ring hollow.

That's sad to read. Didn't Disney build a lot of its customer base on loyal fans informally networking and creating new fans - i.e. through infectious enthusiasm and positive reviews and anecdotes? It seems to me, they need to get back to the basics of customer comfort and satisfaction. (...Which includes assertively managing people who behave in ways that spoil things for others around them.)

Just returned from very disappointing trip. Room issues, bus issues, After Hours event issues, Genie+ issues, park hopping issues, Uber issues.....wasted hours and hours trying to resolve problems with very little success. probably going to cancel upcoming trips planned for Jan. and May. even if we do take the trips definitely not planning to renew APs when they expire in June.

Sorry that was your experience Lsdolphin; it sounds really frustrating and disappointing. They should have paid you an hourly wage for all that work you were doing for them!!

 

[denman007]

I don't understand how there can be an argument that this system is not explicitly more fair for everyone. .

I don't think many people are arguing it's fairness compared to FP+.

It the tech/app would just work and the whole thing wasn't so inconvenient...

 

[pixiedust2u]

I literally don't understand this point. With FP+, someone comes on vacation and didn't know about it - there is nothing anyone can do for them except educate them for it next trip, save maybe getting a FP for a low tier attraction. The FP are all long gone and there is no way to set this person up on the same playing field as everyone else.

With Genie, they can have their first day waiting in all standby and complain to a cast member. That vast member can teach them about Genie to use the rest of their trip! Every day moving forward, they are on the same page as everyone else. I don't understand how there can be an argument that this system is not explicitly more fair for everyone. Am I defending Genie as a standalone product? NO. Am I defending it in comparison to the abomination that was FP+? YES.

I see the point you are trying to make, but I don't think it's that simple. Just like it's not necessary to wake up before 7am to make your first LL reservation with Genie+, it wasn't necessary to make your FP+ reservations 60 days out to utilize FP+. You could also still utilize FP+ without understanding the "modify" technique that allowed you to use FP+ to tour for the majority of your day. If you didn't know about FP+ prior to your trip, you might not get headliners, but you could certainly still use FP+! Ie. on a busy MK day you might not get SDMT or PP, but most other rides you most certainly could! And preferred ride times to boot And if you didn't get what you wanted, at least you weren't paying extra for it! Now you pay extra, may do all the research and STILL not get what you wanted or expected.

By your comparison, you are assuming that the CM is going to give a rundown on all the intricacies of Genie+ (and there are many), to get the most out of it. Like which ride reservations to make first, how to stack, how to utilize it if hopping, review LL vs LL+, what to book first based on what fills up first and your preferences etc etc etc. I don't think a CM is going to be able to give the same run down as you'd get here, or other frequented sites or blogs/vlogs.

So yes, they both have their advantages vs disadvantages. But I don't think non planners will have level playing field with those who did research before their travel. Add to that ongoing tech issues with MDE and frequent rides breaking down that make it all more complicated.

 

[gregskellington]

I see the point you are trying to make, but I don't think it's that simple. Just like it's not necessary to wake up before 7am to make your first LL reservation with Genie+, it wasn't necessary to make your FP+ reservations 60 days out to utilize FP+. You could also still utilize FP+ without understanding the "modify" technique that allowed you to use FP+ to tour for the majority of your day. If you didn't know about FP+ prior to your trip, you might not get headliners, but you could certainly still use FP+! Ie. on a busy MK day you might not get SDMT or PP, but most other rides you most certainly could! And preferred ride times to boot And if you didn't get what you wanted, at least you weren't paying extra for it! Now you pay extra, may do all the research and STILL not get what you wanted or expected.

By your comparison, you are assuming that the CM is going to give a rundown on all the intricacies of Genie+ (and there are many), to get the most out of it. Like which ride reservations to make first, how to stack, how to utilize it if hopping, review LL vs LL+, what to book first based on what fills up first and your preferences etc etc etc. I don't think a CM is going to be able to give the same run down as you'd get here, or other frequented sites or blogs/vlogs.

So yes, they both have their advantages vs disadvantages. But I don't think non planners will have level playing field with those who did research before their travel. Add to that ongoing tech issues with MDE and frequent rides breaking down that make it all more complicated.

Of course, planners always have the advantage. The advantage gap with G+ is quite small compared to how massive it was with FP+.

And no, I'm not even remotely assuming a CM will do anything but tell a guest of its existence. A CM telling a guest of FP+ existence would be meaningless for that trip. A CM telling a guest of G+ existence means that person could get a LL for a high priority attraction TOMORROW without knowing any special tricks. You're doing that with FP+ only if you know all the special tricks to begin with and are willing to refresh the app for hours.

 

[mco65]

We lost our love for Epcot years ago when we saw liquor lines every fifty yards and people literally puking as we walked past them with our kids. It was horrible!

No doubt i have just lucky, but i have never seen any puking at Epcot.. ugh!

 

[pixiedust2u]

Of course, planners always have the advantage. The advantage gap with G+ is quite small compared to how massive it was with FP+.

And no, I'm not even remotely assuming a CM will do anything but tell a guest of its existence. A CM telling a guest of FP+ existence would be meaningless for that trip. A CM telling a guest of G+ existence means that person could get a LL for a high priority attraction TOMORROW without knowing any special tricks. You're doing that with FP+ only if you know all the special tricks to begin with and are willing to refresh the app for hours.

Ah I see what you are saying now. You are referring more specifically to the headliners and equal playing field. For that circumstance yes, but I think as an experience overall it's still my opinion that the "playing field" for planners vs not is the same.

 

[Davey Jones II]

A few things wrong here. Dinosaur isn't a paid ride - included as one of the Genie+ options. And if it was truly walk-on there's no reason to "change" the reservation - just cancel it and make a new one which is basically the same thing. And also - unless they were planning on riding Dinosaur again later when they think there would be a long line (unlikely), there would have been no reason to change it in any event since as soon as they tapped in to the ride they'd be able to make a reservation for another ride right then anyway.

I'm confused. If you cancel an LL, don't you lose the money you paid for it?

 

[evman42]

Just wait... someday it will be $180 per person to get in and then you have to pay for each ride you want to ride separately. LOL!

Don't give them any ideas!

 

[scrappinginontario]

I'm confused. If you cancel an LL, don't you lose the money you paid for it?

Hope I can clarify things a bit.

There are 2 different things that can be purchased. Let's use Animal Kingdom as an example as Dinosaur is the ride being discussed.

Genie + is an option to purchase which allows you to book Lightning Lane return times (LLs) for many attractions in the park. (e.g. Festival of the Lion King, Kilimanjaro Safari, Naavi River Journey, Dinosaur.) The cost to purchase that is $15/person/day. For that $15 you may ride as many of the Lightning Lane rides (only once each) as you are able to book. (There are many restrictions re booking that I won't go in to here.) After using a LL for an attraction, if you wish to ride again you would need to enter via standby line.

Rides that are included with Genie + do not include the ILL$ rides. These are completely separate.

In each park there are 2 additional rides that can be purchased. These rides are not included in Genie + and each ride is an individual price. These are often referred to as ILL$ for Individual Lightning Lane at a cost.

In the AK, Flight of Passage and Expedition Everest are ILL$ rides. To gain access to these rides without waiting in the regular, standby line you must purchase each ride separately.


Summary:
LL is part of Genie +. You purchase that for $15/person/day. Once purchased there is no refund

ILL$ are 2 rides in each park that you pay a separate price ONLY for that one ride. Again, except due to extremely rare circumstances, no refunds will be offered.

You can purchase only Genie + and not purchase any ILL$.

You can purchase only 1 or 2 ILL$ and not purchase Genie +.

You can purchase both.

One thing to note is that even if you park hop, guests are limited to only 2 ILL$ purchase per day, across all parks.

I'm not sure if this has helped at all as it's very confusing to explain but I'm trying.

 

[bsmcneil]

I completely agree! When I am there for the fireworks I want to be involved in it - I look forward to that "eyes up, jaw down" feeling .
I remember one time where I was watching Illuminations and there was this guy off to the side of me that was recording it with his cell phone and a slr on a tripod. I'm sure he recorded it but I highly doubt if he actually experienced it.
I do admit that as a nerd when all in front of me were recording, phones held high in the air that I did have the desire for a portable EMP generator.

The thing that really gets me with comments like this are how short-sighted they are. People who experience things differently than you still experience them. As a photographer, part of my enjoyment comes from capturing moments (I'm not necessarily doing this with Illuminations or Harmonious - but I have some great fireworks shots from baseball games, Fourth of July, etc and they can make for beautiful canvases in my house). But this is like saying, "Why take a photo of animals on safari - you can just see them?"