Would you report this family to CPS?

[lajones81]

I work @ CPS- this would be an investigation in my state.
At this point, you are legally obligated to call because you suspect physical neglect and emotional abuse. WHEN you make that call, you will be doing the right thing.

I agree!

As a school teacher, I am a mandated reporter and, thus, am required to report information to the appropriate agencies.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

I lean towards not calling; not everyone gets a shiny happy life. If CPS took every kid that was dirty, smelly, ill-dressed, poor, ignored, or the offspring of people with mental issues, there's be no room at the inn.

The OP focuses more on the mother and the house, but didn't post much about her observations of the kid.

If the OP's daughter is friends with the kid, my suspicions are that the kid would have talked to the daughter about abuse.

Neglect is more difficult to pin down-I know several moms that neglect their kids-MY opinion, though, not "legalese".

I would say find out exactly what the definitions are for CPS to step in, do your best to see if the kid is in a situation that meets those guidelines, and then make a decision from there.

If her life just sucks, well, there are different ways to help, then. It sounds like her life just sucks-maybe try and be an oasis for her...

 

[MidgeD79]

IF you call CPS, there is NO WAY the mom/daughter/family would find out that YOU were the one that reported the situation. I would make the call.

 

[arminnie]

I don't know anything about CPS. But if this were a woman with mental problems living alone in a pig stye, I would call the health department to see about getting her some help.

 

[ms.yt]

You should call. If CPS gets a call and makes a visit, that doesn't mean the kids are going to be taken away. I think people here seem to think that CPS takes away kids at the drop of a hat. It doesn't work that way. If they check it out, and the kids aren't in danger, then they won't remove them. They may, however, help this mother get her life back on track. If they feel the kids are in danger, they will remove them, but then they will still help the mother take the necessary steps to improve things for herself and her kids. It's not your decision to make if things are okay inside that house that you are not permitted to be in. You should call if you think it's bad enough to pose the question on here.

 

[MissyDVC]

I would call.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I wouldn't call without talking to the girl first. Ask her about her home life, what her mom does, if her mom is fun and nice, what they have for supper, if they play scrabble..I don't know. Make it a fun, conversational type of thing instead of a suprise attack.

And I think I would do that type of conversation in the car. Take the girls out for ice cream so she lets down her guard, and you can open with, "So, do you ever do anything like this with your mom?"..and take it from there.

I think you and Mystery Machine have a good point, but I do know a lot more about their home life than what I mentioned in my OP, and I think NHdisneylover hit the nail on the head. The kids do protect their mom. They squeeze in and out of the door, too. They make excuses for her behavior, and lately the older brother does most of the driving. I didn't mention this before, but I often smell alcohol on her breath and I believe that is why the son is driving her around.

Her mom can be very nice and fun at times, but the slightest thing will set her off and she can be extremely mean, too. I know they only get frozen dinners, because the girl complains about it and loves to eat over at our house. They watch a lot movies together, but at times her mom also makes her play outside for hours and won't let her back in even to go to the bathroom, and even in wet, cold weather.

I have heard the mom yell at the girl so loudly that I can hear her voice from across the room (coming out of the girl's cell phone, and it's not on speaker), over such minor things as being "late" home from a party that ended at 5:00, yet it's only 5:00 right then, or for not telling her she was coming over to our house that day after school, when she and I had a conversation about it the day before where she gave her permission.

I have seen the mom step on the foot of another child and just stand there, looking off into space, not moving, while the child is crying, tapping her arm and saying "Mrs XXXX, you're on my foot!" She snapped out of it when I came over and she apologized to the girl, but it was like she was in a trance.

I agree.. A call to CPS should never be made in haste.. There is too much at stake - even for the children.. (Just the embarrassment alone of having CPS come to the school and pull them from class to speak to them.. And yes - it does happen that way often times because they need to talk to the children separate from the mom - before mom is even aware a call has been made..)

There just isn't enough information here to go on.. Speak to the girl; speak to the older siblings; and then speak to the dad.. Based on what little info you have, the rush to call in CPS could be a huge mistake - for all involved..

If I do make the call, it will not be in haste. I've been thinking of this for months, and am not rushing into anything. I do have a lot more information than what I've posted, I was just trying to put out a few objective facts, because many of the specific stories can be so subjective, and any one story alone can be excused, it's the long-term pattern that concerns me.

I honestly believe the mom is either drunk or on drugs most of the time, or she has a serious mental problem. Her behavior is really that erratic. It's not so much about the dirty house as it is about the state of mind the mother is in that she allows it to get that way, and of course, the possible health hazard.

 

[luvmy3]

I have read some things in your post that alot of parents can be guilty of, but if you yourself have witnessed behavior of this mother that fits abuse and/or neglect over months then you shouldn't have any doubts about calling.

 

[C.Ann]

I think you and Mystery Machine have a good point, but I do know a lot more about their home life than what I mentioned in my OP, and I think NHdisneylover hit the nail on the head. The kids do protect their mom. They squeeze in and out of the door, too. They make excuses for her behavior, and lately the older brother does most of the driving. I didn't mention this before, but I often smell alcohol on her breath and I believe that is why the son is driving her around.

Her mom can be very nice and fun at times, but the slightest thing will set her off and she can be extremely mean, too. I know they only get frozen dinners, because the girl complains about it and loves to eat over at our house. They watch a lot movies together, but at times her mom also makes her play outside for hours and won't let her back in even to go to the bathroom, and even in wet, cold weather.

I have heard the mom yell at the girl so loudly that I can hear her voice from across the room (coming out of the girl's cell phone, and it's not on speaker), over such minor things as being "late" home from a party that ended at 5:00, yet it's only 5:00 right then, or for not telling her she was coming over to our house that day after school, when she and I had a conversation about it the day before where she gave her permission.

I have seen the mom step on the foot of another child and just stand there, looking off into space, not moving, while the child is crying, tapping her arm and saying "Mrs XXXX, you're on my foot!" She snapped out of it when I came over and she apologized to the girl, but it was like she was in a trance.

If I do make the call, it will not be in haste. I've been thinking of this for months, and am not rushing into anything. I do have a lot more information than what I've posted, I was just trying to put out a few objective facts, because many of the specific stories can be so subjective, and any one story alone can be excused, it's the long-term pattern that concerns me.

I honestly believe the mom is either drunk or on drugs most of the time, or she has a serious mental problem. Her behavior is really that erratic. It's not so much about the dirty house as it is about the state of mind the mother is in that she allows it to get that way, and of course, the possible health hazard.

If you have a lot more information than you have divulged here, my first step would be to speak to the dad.. If he has an "I don't care attitude", then - and only then - would I make the call..

I have close personal friends who work for CPS.. I don't think anyone here is assuming that the children will be taken away.. I know for a fact that your involvement will be kept confidential.. However, there will still be consequences to the children if things are not quite as bad as you think they are.. Not only will they pull the children out of class, they may have them examined for signs of physical abuse; they will interview neighbors; and if they aren't removed from the home, I wonder how this mom will react - and what that will mean for the kids..

As others have pointed out, there are plenty of dirty kids in the world; plenty of kids who live in dirty homes; plenty of kids who have an unstable family life - yet very rarely are these children removed for those reasons..

I think you at least owe the dad the courtesy of a phone call before you open up this can of worms.. I have seen parents - and children - go through CPS involvement and if it's not absolutely necessary, the consequences can be devastating..

Give Dad a chance first.. Then - if nothing improves, make your decision as to what you will or won't do..

 

[Wishing on a star]

CALL CPS... Period.

You are not a professional...
You have no right to pry, and no right to question children, call their dad, etc...
No way, no how.
Not your place.
Do NOT even go there.

Both the children and the father are like 100% likely to say whatever necessary to protect themselves and brush the situation under the rug.
They could become very angry at you, and make you out as a villian.
Also, this gives them time to get their ducks in a row, coach the children, get their stories strait, etc.. knowing that CPS could become involved.

Again, DO NOT GO THERE.

Call CPS.

They will handle it.
At least hopefully they will handle it...
I know that some states CPS is full of dismal stories.
But, really, calling is your ONLY option.

I would advise that you prepare specifics beforehand.
You will need to be very specific...
Something as general as your first post here may not garner enough attention.

When is the last time you entered the home...
What did you see, hear, smell.
When have you smelled alcohol on her breath.
When do you 'know' that the child was locked out of their home (HUGE RED FLAG HERE - That is neglect and abuse)
Etc. Etc.

 

[tonilea]

CALL CPS... Period.

You are not a professional...
You have no right to pry, and to question children, call their dad, etc...
No way, no how.
Not your place.
Do NOT even go there.

Call CPS.

They will handle it.
At least hopefully they will handle it...
I know that some states CPS is full of dismal stories.
But, really, calling is your ONLY option.

I would advise that you prepare specifics beforehand.
You will need to be very specific...
Something as general as your first post here may not garner enough attention.

When is the last time you entered the home...
What did you see, hear, smell.
When have you smelled alcohol on her breath.
Etc.

Great post.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Thanks, I also just went back and edited to add a few more important comments, so OP, you may want to re-read if you did not see the edited version.

 

[SereneOne]

Call CPS!

Like a previous poster stated, they do not just take the kids at the drop of a hat. If they investigate and feel that the mom needs help, they can assist in getting her the help she needs to get back on track.

Please make the call.

 

[GershwinGirl]

Call CPS. They won't divulge your identity to the mom. If there's nothing wrong they'll find that out.

If there is, do you want to be the person who knew something was up and did nothing to stop it?

 

[Mrs.Toad]

The OP focuses more on the mother and the house, but didn't post much about her observations of the kid.

If the OP's daughter is friends with the kid, my suspicions are that the kid would have talked to the daughter about abuse.

Observations about the child. She's like a different person when she's around her mother as compared to when she's with her dad or at school. With dad, she's much happier, calmer, more polite. She gets very sad and quiet when her mom is yelling at her. She and her brother exchange "she's in one of her moods" looks when their mom is in a bad mood, but like I said, I think they are protecting her, trying to hide what goes on in that house, probably because they love her and don't want her to get into trouble.

The girl is a generally a nice kid and does well in school, but lacks in self-confidence. Her brother (senior in HS) is a little odd. He is very immature for his age. He still wears superhero capes and plays with light sabers. He asked if my 6yo could stay and play one day when my older dd went over to play with the girl (I said no!) The mother told a group of us that he had a disease (I don't remember what it was) that caused him to act immature, but a nurse in the group later commented that this disease should affect him physically, not cognitively. Also, if there are medical issues that cause this immaturity, why is he allowed to get a driver's license?

I don't expect the girl to talk to my dd about any abuse, because I don't think there is physical abuse, and I think emotionally abused people often don't realize it's happening, especially if it's been going on for a long time.

I have read some things in your post that alot of parents can be guilty of, but if you yourself have witnessed behavior of this mother that fits abuse and/or neglect over months then you shouldn't have any doubts about calling.

Exactly! I hate to give examples, because any one example doesn't sound so bad when you write it out. You really have to be there to witness that it is gets more extreme than what other parents can sometimes be guilty of, and that it's much more consistent, as well. As I said, I kept giving her the benefit of the doubt, thinking how hard it must be as a single mom, but since she recently told me she hadn't worked for over a year, it's hard to justify any longer.

I don't think it's stress over money issues either. After she told me about not working, I offered up some advice on financial help, but she didn't want it and said she gets plenty of money from her ex.

Thanks everyone, you've given me a lot of great advice (and I'm sure there will be more!)

 

[Mrs.Toad]

If there is, do you want to be the person who knew something was up and did nothing to stop it?

Absolutely not. I would never forgive myself if anything happened to the kids.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

You should call. If CPS gets a call and makes a visit, that doesn't mean the kids are going to be taken away. I think people here seem to think that CPS takes away kids at the drop of a hat. It doesn't work that way. If they check it out, and the kids aren't in danger, then they won't remove them. They may, however, help this mother get her life back on track. If they feel the kids are in danger, they will remove them, but then they will still help the mother take the necessary steps to improve things for herself and her kids. It's not your decision to make if things are okay inside that house that you are not permitted to be in. You should call if you think it's bad enough to pose the question on here.

Precisely. I have been through the foster parent training in my state, and grew up with one of my best friends being a foster kid. She was actually taken away for the exact reasons you mentioned (house was declared a health hazard) and later her father was given custody.

When CPS is called, their priority is almost always reuniting the child with the family. They will do whatever they can to help that family find the resources (physical, material, psychological) they need for it to be a safe place for a child. They take them away as a last resort, and even then, many are reunited with their families. Based on what you have posted, this family needs help, and that is exactly the type of family CPS exists to serve.

 

[SereneOne]

Precisely. I have been through the foster parent training in my state, and grew up with one of my best friends being a foster kid. She was actually taken away for the exact reasons you mentioned (house was declared a health hazard) and later her father was given custody.

When CPS is called, their priority is almost always reuniting the child with the family. They will do whatever they can to help that family find the resources (physical, material, psychological) they need for it to be a safe place for a child. They take them away as a last resort, and even then, many are reunited with their families. Based on what you have posted, this family needs help, and that is exactly the type of family CPS exists to serve.

One can commit the most hellacious abuse on their own child(ren) and the judges are still very, very reluctant to terminate parental rights. They expect CPS to perform miracles and like stated, their goal is to reunite the family.

 

[kathie859]

I think given the circumstances you've described that a call to CPS OR the Health Department is in order. Perhaps a call to one will lead to call to the other so the Mom can get some obviously needed help and support.

Good luck, OP. This is a toughie.

 

[minkydog]

Lend her a hand, in what way? She will not allow anyone to help her clean, I have offered in the past, and honestly, I think it's gone beyond that point to where it may be a health hazard more than just a woman who need some help.

You make a good point. She doesn't want you inside her house. Offering to "help" will only alienate her further.

I have a friend who is a serious hoarder. I have been allowed inside her house exactly 2 times in the last 16 years. Both times it was piled floor to ceiling with boxes, clothes, papers, computers, laundry, etc. She has not cooked a meal in her kitchen(*because she can't get in there) for at least 12 years--her children told me that. BUT...my friend does not have mood swings, she is happy, her kids are clean and happy, so there is no reason to step in. I figure if her husband can stand it, well, okay.

In this case, the child is NOT clean, you can smell foul odors yourself(no one is telling you about it), and the mother has severe erratic mood swings. My guess is she has a mood disorder and is either unmedicated or improperly medicated. You would be doing the children ANd her mother a favor by calling in an authority who can make a determination as to whether this child is endangered.