Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[RobDoc]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this...are there any resorts which are solely lock-off 2BR units (and no 3BR or other dedicated sizes)?

There are no DVC Resorts with only lockoff 2BR villas. OKW has dedicated 2BR, Lockoff 2BR and GVs. BW has NO dedicated 2BR, but it does have dedicated Studios and 1BRs and GVs.

Here is the breakdown for all DVC Resorts from the DVC Resource Center here on the DIS - https://www.disboards.com/threads/t...-updated-november-2018.3655476/#post-58628440

 

[4evryoung]

There are no DVC Resorts with only lockoff 2BR villas. OKW has dedicated 2BR, Lockoff 2BR and GVs. BW has NO dedicated 2BR, but it does have dedicated Studios and 1BRs and GVs.

Here is the breakdown for all DVC Resorts from the DVC Resource Center here on the DIS - https://www.disboards.com/threads/t...-updated-november-2018.3655476/#post-58628440

The breakdown shows that the top 4 resorts with big gaps between dedicated and lock-off 2 bedrooms are BWV (149 more lock-offs); AKL (110); SSR (72); and AHV (53). These are the resorts that might see an increase in breakage points under the previously proposed charts. I'm not sure this adds a lot of insight, but I haven't followed every twist and turn of this debate.

 

[Wakey]

Interesting read re the historic points changes, thank you Drusba for such a detailed post.

Re SSR- whether they could do the standard and preferred legally is open to debate. However, most members would agree, that was in the fiduciary interest of the members, and more importantly, didn't create points out of thin air.

I think it was an excellent change.

What I wouldn't have been happy with, would have been a slight decrease in standard view, and utilising lock off premium to significantly increase preferred view. That would have upset me, and I'm sure many members. That would have been akin to the now dead 2020 point chart type situation.

So whether they were technically able to do it, I'm not sure, but I'm not for picking up on technicalities for technicalities sake.

We need to be vigilant going forward, watching out in future years for attempts at lockoff premium increase without corresponding decreases elsewhere. I know Zavandor still expects clarification on what they say they can and can't do, and I hope he gets it.

 

[skier_pete]

We need to be vigilant going forward, watching out in future years for attempts at lockoff premium increase without corresponding decreases elsewhere. I know Zavandor still expects clarification on what they say they can and can't do, and I hope he gets it.

I agree we need to be vigilant. I also dont expect Disney to come out and admit to anyone that anything in the canceled charts was outside of their rights to do.

 

[DaveNan]

The breakdown shows that the top 4 resorts with big gaps between dedicated and lock-off 2 bedrooms are BWV (149 more lock-offs); AKL (110); SSR (72); and AHV (53). These are the resorts that might see an increase in breakage points under the previously proposed charts. I'm not sure this adds a lot of insight, but I haven't followed every twist and turn of this debate.

How about that... I own the top 3.

 

[CarolMN]

The breakdown shows that the top 4 resorts with big gaps between dedicated and lock-off 2 bedrooms are BWV (149 more lock-offs); AKL (110); SSR (72); and AHV (53). These are the resorts that might see an increase in breakage points under the previously proposed charts. I'm not sure this adds a lot of insight, but I haven't followed every twist and turn of this debate.

BWV has ONLY lock off 2 bedrooms. It also has 97 dedicated studios and 130 dedicated 1-bedrooms. Those dedicated villas will limit the lock off premium increases at BWV much more than those resorts that have no (or relatively few) dedicated studios or dedicated 1-bedrooms.

 

[skier_pete]

BWV has ONLY lock off 2 bedrooms. It also has 97 dedicated studios and 130 dedicated 1-bedrooms. Those dedicated villas will limit the lock off premium increases at BWV much more than those resorts that have no (or relatively few) dedicated studios or dedicated 1-bedrooms.

Yes - this exactly - BWV is safer from Lock-off premiums than most resorts. Anything with a lot of dedicated studios and 1-beds fall under this. BCV. BWV, and both the WLV systems are the most limited since they would also have to raise the dedicated and require lowering of the 2-beds to do it.

 

[drusba]

Interesting read re the historic points changes, thank you Drusba for such a detailed post.

Re SSR- whether they could do the standard and preferred legally is open to debate. However, most members would agree, that was in the fiduciary interest of the members, and more importantly, didn't create points out of thin air.

I think it was an excellent change.

What I wouldn't have been happy with, would have been a slight decrease in standard view, and utilising lock off premium to significantly increase preferred view. That would have upset me, and I'm sure many members. That would have been akin to the now dead 2020 point chart type situation.

So whether they were technically able to do it, I'm not sure, but I'm not for picking up on technicalities for technicalities sake.

We need to be vigilant going forward, watching out in future years for attempts at lockoff premium increase without corresponding decreases elsewhere. I know Zavandor still expects clarification on what they say they can and can't do, and I hope he gets it.

I cannot really disagree with the fact that the SSR conversion to standard and preferred was probably something needed. My only real personal objection is that it made my favorite SSR room area, Congress Park, more expensive, so you have to pay a lot more for that fantastic view and easy access to Disney Springs.

But DVC's failure to consider and do a change to the applicable POS and agreements first indicates something that many profess cannot possibly be true: that despite that Disney is a large corporation, with lots of of high paid officers and MBA suits, and access to many sources of legal and business advice, and presumed access to great and complex data that us poor members have no way of disputing, Disney is actually at times downright sloppy by failing to fully evaluate and take necessary steps before embarking on major changes. In other words, the reports that DVC actually knew what it was doing with the 2020 point chart changes may have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[CaptnKirk]

DVC re-revised 2020 point scheduled based on member feedback this week. Check out the point schedules.

 

[CaptnKirk]

DVC re-revised points this week based on Member feedback, they very much align with 2019 point schedule. I looked at BWV and CCV and the 2020 scheduled is identical to 2019. Good news for all!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I cannot really disagree with the fact that the SSR conversion to standard and preferred was probably something needed. My only real personal objection is that it made my favorite SSR room area, Congress Park, more expensive, so you have to pay a lot more for that fantastic view and easy access to Disney Springs.

But DVC's failure to consider and do a change to the applicable POS and agreements first indicates something that many profess cannot possibly be true: that despite that Disney is a large corporation, with lots of of high paid officers and MBA suits, and access to many sources of legal and business advice, and presumed access to great and complex data that us poor members have no way of disputing, Disney is actually at times downright sloppy by failing to fully evaluate and take necessary steps before embarking on major changes. In other words, the reports that DVC actually knew what it was doing with the 2020 point chart changes may have been greatly exaggerated.

I certainly agree with you on those rooms and views and I have no desire to re-hash that long argument here, but afford me a sentence or two to give you the converse of that argument. We have enjoyed the Congress park views a number of times, but getting that view was hit or miss at best. Close to DS? Yep, but we have missed on the view more than we hit it, admittedly mostly before the change, but it's a numbers game so that couldn't have changed that much if at all.

Now we can stay at Carousel or Grandstand (Maybe the singular best kept secret in all of WDW that we found after being "thrown" over there on a recent trip and thought we'd hate it.) and save a ton of points. We drive, so we just hop in the Explorer and drive over to Congress or Springs parking and walk to DS. Most times, we just walk from wherever we are, especially if the weather's nice or we're not going over to pick up some quick take-out that we don't want to get cold.

Thumbs up on that change for us. We like saving the points for another trip, and we've actually managed to get an extra long weekend in last year that we wouldn't have gotten had we not been able to "work that change."

 

[skier_pete]

I certainly agree with you on those rooms and views and I have no desire to re-hash that long argument here, but afford me a sentence or two to give you the converse of that argument. We have enjoyed the Congress park views a number of times, but getting that view was hit or miss at best. Close to DS? Yep, but we have missed on the view more than we hit it, admittedly mostly before the change, but it's a numbers game so that couldn't have changed that much if at all.

Now we can stay at Carousel or Grandstand (Maybe the singular best kept secret in all of WDW that we found after being "thrown" over there on a recent trip and thought we'd hate it.) and save a ton of points. We drive, so we just hop in the Explorer and drive over to Congress or Springs parking and walk to DS. Most times, we just walk from wherever we are, especially if the weather's nice or we're not going over to pick up some quick take-out that we don't want to get cold.

Thumbs up on that change for us. We like saving the points for another trip, and we've actually managed to get an extra long weekend in last year that we wouldn't have gotten had we not been able to "work that change."

Yeah - not the point of the thread - but from the outside (we haven't stayed there since the change) I think overall it's a fair exchange. More points for the locations that everyone wants. Less points for less convenience.

 

[Donna M]

DVC re-revised 2020 point scheduled based on member feedback this week. Check out the point schedules.

It was mentioned quite a few pages back. It is an interesting read. There are many here discussing that there probably is a lot more to it than just member feedback.

 

[hakepb]

I cannot really disagree with the fact that the SSR conversion to standard and preferred was probably something needed. My only real personal objection is that it made my favorite SSR room area, Congress Park, more expensive, so you have to pay a lot more for that fantastic view and easy access to Disney Springs.

But DVC's failure to consider and do a change to the applicable POS and agreements first indicates something that many profess cannot possibly be true: that despite that Disney is a large corporation, with lots of of high paid officers and MBA suits, and access to many sources of legal and business advice, and presumed access to great and complex data that us poor members have no way of disputing, Disney is actually at times downright sloppy by failing to fully evaluate and take necessary steps before embarking on major changes. In other words, the reports that DVC actually knew what it was doing with the 2020 point chart changes may have been greatly exaggerated.

I’ve never viewed the Disney difference as the result of world-class management and project leadership. Instead, most stories of the Disney difference are front-line CM’s who go above and beyond to mitigate the problems created by management and bad projects.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I’ve never viewed the Disney difference as the result of world-class management and project leadership. Instead, most stories of the Disney difference are front-line CM’s who go above and beyond to mitigate the problems created by management and bad projects.

You know - that really sums it up well IMO. There's been some management over the years that has impressed but not always.

 

[skier_pete]

I’ve never viewed the Disney difference as the result of world-class management and project leadership. Instead, most stories of the Disney difference are front-line CM’s who go above and beyond to mitigate the problems created by management and bad projects.

I guess even before I bought into DVC I always thought of DVC as "They treat you great until you buy - but once you've bought then they've locked you in and they really don't care about you anymore." I realize since becoming an owner that's a somewhat simplified view - because I think they DO realize that they get some of their best sales pitches from DVC members, and also a pretty significant amount of sales come from add-ons.

That said, Disney management makes some pretty bonehead decisions that the front-line CMs have to clean up for. In this case though - I don't think the change came from the front-line.

 

[intertile]

Just did the math...my typical Thanksgiving 6 night holiday at GFV was originally going up 20 points from 2019 to 2020. Now, after the correction it is going up only 3 points. Something to watch...if 2021 also shows a 3 point increase, they basically will be doing this over 7 years or so.

If you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water it will jump out, but if you place it in cold water and slowly turn up the heat it will boil to death.

 

[crvetter]

Just did the math...my typical Thanksgiving 6 night holiday at GFV was originally going up 20 points from 2019 to 2020. Now, after the correction it is going up only 3 points. Something to watch...if 2021 also shows a 3 point increase, they basically will be doing this over 7 years or so.

If you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water it will jump out, but if you place it in cold water and slowly turn up the heat it will boil to death.

I think your points only went up because of change in where Thanksgiving falls. The point charts are identical between 2019 and 2020.

I agree in 2021 will show an increase however 2020 revised charts for the resort didn't have any reallocation of points at all. Technically speaking 2020 is not a reallocation anymore

 

[ohtarabell1]

Thanks to those of you that carried the water! Appreciated

 

[bobbiwoz]

We got a call that Yvonne Chang will call to talk to us on Thursday.