Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[Wakey]

We got a call that Yvonne Chang will call to talk to us on Thursday.

I applaud her for engaging, credit where credit’s due. I’d also applaud, as I’m sure most members would, if they said they’d made a mistake and they’ll ensure it doesn’t happen again.

 

[Bing Showei]

I applaud her for engaging, credit where credit’s due. I’d also applaud, as I’m sure most members would, if they said they’d made a mistake and they’ll ensure it doesn’t happen again.

You can save the applause, Wakey. I've had two conversations with Yvonne Chang and there was one thing that she made abundantly clear:

Disney did not make a mistake.

More accurately, their position is that the only mistake that they may have made was in their messaging. That is all. If anyone is starting to feel good about the walk-back of the 2020 point charts, they will be back. This time with a more organized messaging of the change; that will be the only difference.

Yvonne made it a point to underscore that out of the quarter of a million member families, fewer than two dozen emailed or called to express any unhappiness with this change.

To me this was the most disheartening. For all the noise people made here, for all the likes and thank you messages, for all the outrage that people expressed on these boards, fewer than twenty four people reached out to Disney. And what did that allow her to do? She weaponized this minuscule .01% number to underscore that a very vocal minority was making all this "noise on the internet" not really representative of the broader membership's concerns and that this is not at all the big issue that the fewer than 24 people who reached out have made it out to be.

She then went on about how the majority of happy people remain silent. And stated that with people asking questions it's clear there was some "confusion" about the change, but because we we are so important as members, and how they want us to know that our feedback matters, they wanted to make sure to communicate more proactively the next time.

Through both exchanges, she used the majority of the time reiterating what a great company Disney is to work for and how she loves how they care so much about the guests and members. She also talked about how, despite what is commonly observed, the data supports that 1BRs are in higher demand than 2BRs and that the attempted reallocation was not wrong in that regard. That this reallocation was within their legal rights and outside of messaging, was executed appropriately and to benefit of the membership.

If the choices DVCMC made around this reallocation did bother you, gave you pause about ownership, made you questions Disney's motivations; if you don't buy the whole 1BRs are grossly more popular than 2BRs, you are concerned about member interests being served, you can't help but feel like the lock-off premium is being leveraged outside the scope of DVCMCs fiduciary obligations, please, please, please, express your concerns to Disney. It can be as simple as an email to member services (Members@DisneyVacationClub.com). But please say something.

Absent that all of us who were so upset, we're just a sum total of .01%. That's an easy number to roll over.

 

[crvetter]

You can save the applause, Wakey. I've had two conversations with Yvonne Chang and there was one thing that she made abundantly clear:

Disney did not make a mistake.

More accurately, their position is that the only mistake that they may have made was in their messaging. That is all. If anyone is starting to feel good about the walk-back of the 2020 point charts, they will be back. This time with a more organized messaging of the change; that will be the only difference.

Yvonne made it a point to underscore that out of the quarter of a million member families, fewer than two dozen emailed or called to express any unhappiness with this change.

To me this was the most disheartening. For all the noise people made here, for all the likes and thank you messages, for all the outrage that people expressed on these boards, fewer than twenty four people reached out to Disney. And what did that allow her to do? She weaponized this minuscule .01% number to underscore that a very vocal minority was making all this "noise on the internet" not really representative of the broader membership's concerns and that this is not at all the big issue that the fewer than 24 people who reached out have made it out to be.

She then went on about how the majority of happy people remain silent. And stated that with people asking questions it's clear there was some "confusion" about the change, but because we we are so important as members, and how they want us to know that our feedback matters, they wanted to make sure to communicate more proactively the next time.

Through both exchanges, she used the majority of the time reiterating what a great company Disney is to work for and how she loves how they care so much about the guests and members. She also talked about how, despite what is commonly observed, the data supports that 1BRs are in higher demand than 2BRs and that the attempted reallocation was not wrong in that regard. That this reallocation was within their legal rights and outside of messaging, was executed appropriately and to benefit of the membership.

If the choices DVCMC made around this reallocation did bother you, gave you pause about ownership, made you questions Disney's motivations; if you don't buy the whole 1BRs are grossly more popular than 2BRs, you are concerned about member interests being served, you can't help but feel like the lock-off premium is being leveraged outside the scope of DVCMCs fiduciary obligations, please, please, please, express your concerns to Disney. It can be as simple as an email to member services (Members@DisneyVacationClub.com). But please say something.

Absent that all of us who were so upset, we're just a sum total of .01%. That's an easy number to roll over.

I think the changes won't occur exactly as they did this year. If they fully intend on implementing the 2020 point charts they will do so over 2 years likely to lessen the blow. Plus out of sight out of mind; people will be upset with a small change but not enough to take it up. Thus making it over 2 years will allow them to skate it through easier (only look at changes year over year not cumulative).

As for them reverting the changes and majority of members being happy (implied by the comment regarding a majority of them being silent) isn't likely the truth nor the way Disney actually felt. They either made changes for 1 of 2 reasons: 1) something seemed off when the lawyers started looking more heavily and they needed more time to vet the process or 2) they had much more of complaint issue than she let on. I fully expect she would underplay the importance of Disney's decision here as they don't want to weaken their authority, so to speak, because it puts them in a more vulnerable position in the future.

Plus if they admit wrong doing they will likely have an issue regarding people that chose to sell because of the 2020 points that were rolled back or those that hurried up and added on because of them. So I don't ever expect them to admit the truth no matter what. It is better to be vague in answering questions regarding their decision now.

I still think some credit is due in that around 2 dozen people for a high ranking official at a corporation to handle such calls is something that most companies wouldn't do. We shall see what happens when December rolls around and what they decide to do with the point charts. They are in a tough spot with bringing a resort online in the middle of this. Do they set those now where they intend them to be (as implied by the original 2020 charts) or do they set them in line with the other resorts? I would think the former is the more ethical route since people will be buying in with their intentions to modify the charts in 1 year.

 

[CarolynFH]

You can save the applause, Wakey. I've had two conversations with Yvonne Chang and there was one thing that she made abundantly clear:

Disney did not make a mistake.

More accurately, their position is that the only mistake that they may have made was in their messaging. That is all. If anyone is starting to feel good about the walk-back of the 2020 point charts, they will be back. This time with a more organized messaging of the change; that will be the only difference.

Yvonne made it a point to underscore that out of the quarter of a million member families, fewer than two dozen emailed or called to express any unhappiness with this change.

To me this was the most disheartening. For all the noise people made here, for all the likes and thank you messages, for all the outrage that people expressed on these boards, fewer than twenty four people reached out to Disney. And what did that allow her to do? She weaponized this minuscule .01% number to underscore that a very vocal minority was making all this "noise on the internet" not really representative of the broader membership's concerns and that this is not at all the big issue that the fewer than 24 people who reached out have made it out to be.

She then went on about how the majority of happy people remain silent. And stated that with people asking questions it's clear there was some "confusion" about the change, but because we we are so important as members, and how they want us to know that our feedback matters, they wanted to make sure to communicate more proactively the next time.

Through both exchanges, she used the majority of the time reiterating what a great company Disney is to work for and how she loves how they care so much about the guests and members. She also talked about how, despite what is commonly observed, the data supports that 1BRs are in higher demand than 2BRs and that the attempted reallocation was not wrong in that regard. That this reallocation was within their legal rights and outside of messaging, was executed appropriately and to benefit of the membership.

If the choices DVCMC made around this reallocation did bother you, gave you pause about ownership, made you questions Disney's motivations; if you don't buy the whole 1BRs are grossly more popular than 2BRs, you are concerned about member interests being served, you can't help but feel like the lock-off premium is being leveraged outside the scope of DVCMCs fiduciary obligations, please, please, please, express your concerns to Disney. It can be as simple as an email to member services (Members@DisneyVacationClub.com). But please say something.

Absent that all of us who were so upset, we're just a sum total of .01%. That's an easy number to roll over.

@Bing Showei, I Liked your post to thank you for relaying this information, not because I liked the information itself.

I’ve been mentally composing an email to MS about this for some time now. Obviously it’s time to put my mental composition into electronic form. Thanks for the added motivation.

 

[zavandor]

This doesn't pass the smell test. 20 people complained and they revert a change that would benefit 250,000 members?
I do not expect they admit they did something wrong, though. But I will ask an explanation about why they think the reallocation was legal. I'm not in a hurry, I'll ask for a meeting face to face.

 

[Wakey]

You can save the applause, Wakey. I've had two conversations with Yvonne Chang and there was one thing that she made abundantly clear:

Disney did not make a mistake.

More accurately, their position is that the only mistake that they may have made was in their messaging. That is all. If anyone is starting to feel good about the walk-back of the 2020 point charts, they will be back. This time with a more organized messaging of the change; that will be the only difference.

Yvonne made it a point to underscore that out of the quarter of a million member families, fewer than two dozen emailed or called to express any unhappiness with this change.

To me this was the most disheartening. For all the noise people made here, for all the likes and thank you messages, for all the outrage that people expressed on these boards, fewer than twenty four people reached out to Disney. And what did that allow her to do? She weaponized this minuscule .01% number to underscore that a very vocal minority was making all this "noise on the internet" not really representative of the broader membership's concerns and that this is not at all the big issue that the fewer than 24 people who reached out have made it out to be.

She then went on about how the majority of happy people remain silent. And stated that with people asking questions it's clear there was some "confusion" about the change, but because we we are so important as members, and how they want us to know that our feedback matters, they wanted to make sure to communicate more proactively the next time.

Through both exchanges, she used the majority of the time reiterating what a great company Disney is to work for and how she loves how they care so much about the guests and members. She also talked about how, despite what is commonly observed, the data supports that 1BRs are in higher demand than 2BRs and that the attempted reallocation was not wrong in that regard. That this reallocation was within their legal rights and outside of messaging, was executed appropriately and to benefit of the membership.

If the choices DVCMC made around this reallocation did bother you, gave you pause about ownership, made you questions Disney's motivations; if you don't buy the whole 1BRs are grossly more popular than 2BRs, you are concerned about member interests being served, you can't help but feel like the lock-off premium is being leveraged outside the scope of DVCMCs fiduciary obligations, please, please, please, express your concerns to Disney. It can be as simple as an email to member services (Members@DisneyVacationClub.com). But please say something.

Absent that all of us who were so upset, we're just a sum total of .01%. That's an easy number to roll over.

I’m now slow clapping.....

 

[ParkHoppers]

So DVC did nothing wrong and flipped over 24 people complaining? If people believe that I have a bridge to sell them. That makes no sense. Of coarse they won’t admit they did something wrong but that is just the company line IMO. I still say DVC was going to make big bucks off breakage and in the future would still have a tough time explaining that. Caved over 24 people? And did nothing wrong? Come on guys.

 

[skier_pete]

@Bing Showei - I find it interesting that she informed you of this. let's follow the logic here in what they claim.

-Out of the entire membership less than 24 people complained. 24 PEOPLE.
-Yet somehow those 24 OR LESS PEOPLE complaining led to a massive rollback in a major change in point allocation.

OF course they are going to claim there was nothing illegal about the changes, that they were completely within their rights and that they can do it in the future. Admitting they did something wrong is the biggest no-no of corporate America and our legal system. But I don't buy the story that they rolled it back because it wasn't communicated well.

In the end, we'll see. I agree they are going to try something. I am just not convinced their gonna do the same thing. We'll see.

Thank you for the e-mail address. I will be writing an e-mail myself.

Is everyone sure the best address to write to is Members@DisneyVacationClub.com

 

[Candlelady]

skier_pete
Anytime I write to the powers that be, I add Iger, the head of Parks & Resorts, head of DVC, Member Satisfaction, and the GM of the resort. Lol, I copy everyone I can think of when I send letters of praise or letters outlining what went wrong. I have always received a call back following this method.

 

[ParkHoppers]

The phone calls by Ms Chang were just to feel people out as to if they would start or join a lawsuit in the future. She gave people the old “we did nothing wrong so nothing to see here if we try this in the future”? Really? Also offering to buy the people out who bring negative things to light doesn’t exactly scream innocent to me. It really doesn’t matter if only a small number of people complained if that small number uncovered something that was wrong. To me DVC has multiple fronts to worry about with a major reallocation like they just tried to pull off

A) the letter of the law
B) the spirit of the law
C) misleading sales tactics/videos

To me they lose on B and C and possibly on A
If they called me I would have explained this and told them if a similar move is tried in the future I will be back.

I saw next to nothing about the 2020 chart on actual social media. That’s the type of negative PR companies worry about. So I,m to believe a handful of peoples complaints on some forums caused the reversal? Not that the small number actually uncovered wrong doing by DVC? And how is it a bad job of communication if only .01 % had a problem with change. That sounds like a raving success according to the percentages. Ms Chang’s words are very telling to me.

 

[mrsap]

After reading this page, this came to mind for some reason...

 

[Wakey]

Most DVC owners had no idea about the points chart changes.

As soon as they had started booking, then the complaints would have flooded in.

Of course they were changed back before booking for 2020 started.

 

[skier_pete]

I saw next to nothing about the 2020 chart on actual social media. That’s the type of negative PR companies worry about. So I,m to believe a handful of peoples complaints on some forums caused the reversal? Not that the small number actually uncovered wrong doing by DVC? And how is it a bad job of communication if only .01 % had a problem with change. That sounds like a raving success according to the percentages. Ms Chang’s words are very telling to me.

Exactly - complaining was limited to almost no one, yet they reversed based on "Member feedback".

So next I think 24 of us should complain that the direct price per point are too high. Clearly they'll roll back prices just if we ask them to.

 

[The Jackal]

Exactly - complaining was limited to almost no one, yet they reversed based on "Member feedback".

So next I think 24 of us should complain that the direct price per point are too high. Clearly they'll roll back prices just if we ask them to.

And ticket prices and annual passes too.

I’m sure no one complained about the parking fees, so they stayed and will increase.

 

[Dean]

So DVC did nothing wrong and flipped over 24 people complaining? If people believe that I have a bridge to sell them. That makes no sense. Of coarse they won’t admit they did something wrong but that is just the company line IMO. I still say DVC was going to make big bucks off breakage and in the future would still have a tough time explaining that. Caved over 24 people? And did nothing wrong? Come on guys.

One potentially good thing, if their position as explained is accurate, is they at least listened and realized they'd done it poorly no matter the ultimate outcome. That would be a change from the last few issues that came along. And it's likely a better alternative for the membership if that's the case than they simply caved.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

Most management is very good at "spin" and partial truths. Maybe they did only hear from 24 members (via certified mail, signature required, return receipt requested lol) but they're also not telling you how many POTENTIAL members were asking questions about this. Details.

I also think the discussion on this forum and the creation of Zavandors website may have raised some concern that potential buyers would find this as part of their research.

No matter how you spin it, we are (were) led to believe what 99% of us on here believed was the way point redistribution would work and that was a key factor in decision to purchase for many. We were "locking in" and "prepaying" and as long as you were able to be a little flexible on your travel dates, there wasnt much to worry about except dues.

If they ultimately decide to make these point chart changes down the road, they need to change their "communication" not just to us but to their potential buyers. I think they need a little time to master the way they are going to address "total points can't change" in their sales pitch.

 

[bobbiwoz]

At Moonlight Magic last night, we spoke to an executive, she deals with phone reservations, maybe DH remembers her exact title. From her response to our reference to the change in the 2020 point chart, we came away with the idea that many Members had contacted DVC, and were not happy.

I wrote two letters to Terri and e-mailed Member Satisfaction. Terri’s office called back once. I sincerely hope our call tomorrow is more than a reiteration of post 1542.

 

[Dean Marino]

.

 

[drusba]

Gosh. I was one of those 24. I never realized I had that much persuasive power.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Well? Just what we did...

Closed today on 30 MORE Home Resort DVC Points, Direct from Disney, same use year. Waiting for 2021 Point Inflation...

You did what you thought best, good for you! And at today’s prices.

We are not buying more, we have enough to weather this storm, and we have enjoyed our DVC time. Right now, we are at VB, where studios have become less points then ocean view inn rooms which were sold out when we booked, and we got to our studio villa and saw this!