Would you cross a picket line?

[Magic Mom]

My job rips me off every single day. I also get paid less than I used to bc they started outsourcing a lot of the work and WE ARE NOT UNION as another poster blames the unions as the reason we outsource. We are not allowed to complain about anything bc we are sent e-mails discouraging this and keeping us in fear of losing our jobs. We all feel it and talk about it amongst ourselves. Oh sure, I can hire a lawyer at $300 an hour sure, that would immediately get me fired, and I cannot afford it anyway and they know it. There is another issue and other issues which I'm not going to get into bc it's too lengthy. If I had a union or if I could get everyone to stop the fear and just band together for one single solitary day, we could stop these issues. You want to know why they do it, because they can. Thats how many companies operate unfortunately.

Besides paying you less than you were previously paid, how does your job rip you off every single day?

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Quality of service. For schools -- updated textbooks, supplies, smaller class sizes, etc. For firemen & policemen, updated equipment.

Good and they deserve that.

 

[sarasotamom]

Capitalism at its worse and greed destroyed the automotive industry from ther higher ups, not the poor union workers. The same thing that caused our other probs. Please.

Greed did not destroy the automobile industry..unless you call the greed of the UAW. American cars have been inferior to foreign made cars for years...The last time I even considered an American car was in 1989. I looked at a Chevrolet. As I got into the car the door interior simply fell off..The saleman said, "Oh don't worry about that. We can fix that." I got out of the car and did not even test drive it. We have bought Toyota or Lexus in the proceeding years.

This did not come easily. My husband has owned nothing but American made cars. Specifically muscle cars - Camaro SS, Nova SS, Pontiac Trans Ams, and Mustangs.We simply felt that they no longer had pride in their product. That car should never have left the plant in that condition. In my opinion, management and blue collar workers both had failed the consumer. The UNION makes workers feel too entitled to care to do a good job. All American car producers are at fault. From the CEO down to the janitor.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I agree with this 100%. I have to admit, bicker, that I'm surprised to see this comment from you considering earlier discussions on the now-taboo threads.

After taking some time to read some of these posts, I see something of a distinction in philosophy that I think is a product of upbringing and life experience. The most vocal in favor of unions seem to come from union families or have union jobs and they argue in favor of unions because of things like "protection". Because of their experience with unions, it seems that protection and grievance procedure has created something akin to an entitlement mentality re jobs, compensation, and benefits.

Those who don't have experience with unions seem more prone to say things like: "the company has the right to do what it wants/needs to in order to make a profit." This idea of an entitlement to the job doesn't seem to enter into the equation because it hasn't had a lifetime or two to sink into that family. It's interesting.

You don't like unions, don't work for one. And when you look at your supervisor Ms. Suzy Q the wrong way one day and she doesn't like u and you get fired, maybe you'll wish you were back in one. Although I always see plenty of nursing jobs. That doesn't mean others don't have that right to work for a union job and unionize.

And if you like unions, go ahead, work for one, or unionize your current job if you can. But don't expect everyone else to jump on your bandwagon every time you strike, just because you think they should. That's what the thread was originally about, after all. As you've pointed out, union workers have it much better than non-union workers, yet we non-union workers are supposed to put our own jobs or needs on the line in order not to cross your picket lines? And get called childish names if we don't? Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

 

[daughtersrus]

Quality of service. For schools -- updated textbooks, supplies, smaller class sizes, etc. For firemen & policemen, updated equipment.

How does this apply to the statement that the question was a response to? Are you saying that if there were no unions, schools would have different textbooks, supplies, class sizes and firemen and policemen would have different equipment?

Does the union provide protection and good wages for those employees? Of course they do. I'm not disputing that. Still, those protections and good wages come at a cost, i.e., the "cost of goods sold". If COGS is high, and the corporation is under pressure to cut it... as I said above there are really only a few ways of doing so, most of which involve cutting the jobs of employees who are too expensive for the function they perform (whether they be management or union). It's the trade-off. So long as investors demand performance and consumers demand cheap products, there's not really anything you can do about it

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I agree with this 100%. I have to admit, bicker, that I'm surprised to see this comment from you considering earlier discussions on the now-taboo threads.

After taking some time to read some of these posts, I see something of a distinction in philosophy that I think is a product of upbringing and life experience. The most vocal in favor of unions seem to come from union families or have union jobs and they argue in favor of unions because of things like "protection". Because of their experience with unions, it seems that protection and grievance procedure has created something akin to an entitlement mentality re jobs, compensation, and benefits.

Those who don't have experience with unions seem more prone to say things like: "the company has the right to do what it wants/needs to in order to make a profit." This idea of an entitlement to the job doesn't seem to enter into the equation because it hasn't had a lifetime or two to sink into that family. It's interesting.

Just for the record, my family has never taken anything from anyone, my parents would never ever even allow someone to buy them as simple as a dinner, ever, for your information. My mother has helped support her mother and father, and her brothers and sisters, and always pays when she goes out with her friends. My father also, never took anything from anyone ever. I remember being 13 years old and I was tiny, petite and my parents paying full price for me in the movies, etc., etc. even tho they thought I was younger and didn't ask for the full price, my parents would tell me that wasn't right. My parents tip better than anyone I know. Never have they taken anything from anyone. I will swear that on my life that is the truth. Know what you speak of.

Its protection from being ripped off, not entitlement. Being treated fairly.
I don't have a union job if you read my posts. My husband does.
My job steals from me literally, has me do work that I am not only not paid for, but I am not getting paid the way they say they are, it amounts to them skimming from me, and will definitely with the answers I'm getting here be way over your head. And I mean that respectfully.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

That's not what he said at all.

But why should a union laborer working for company X have more rights than a salaried lower management position?

Oh yes it is.

 

[hornedfrog]

The UNION makes workers feel too entitled to care to do a good job.

Exactly why I sought to get into management and away from the union. I was hired in straight from college into a union job. I was young, energetic and ready to take on the world. I had no union knowledge or prejudice. A few years into it I realized that the veterans with 30 years service, who sat around and watched Judge Judy, etc. all day (yes, they covertly kept small TVs in their cubes and watched with earphones while mounting mirrors in 'rear view fashion' so that they could see if a manager was headed their way) made the same money as me. They had WEEKS more vacation than I did. They got all the holidays off. They did JUST enough work to not get in trouble and they had it far better than I did.

But because of the union and because they did the very bare minimum, they were protected. And because of the union, I could be a star performer or also do the bare minimum and it just didn't matter...I would never get a raise outside of the annual bargained for increases. I would never get rewarded with extra time off or a bonus or anything that has any real value. I would never get a promotion unless my 'number was called' - which has NOTHING to with performance other than the ability to pass a few tests and your level of seniority. I got tired of collecting useless pieces of paper that said "Award" on them, asked to be promoted into management, and I was.

Some flourish in this environment. There are some very hard-working, wonderfully industrious union workers in our company. I am proud to work along side them. One of them happens to be my very best friend in the world. They are great workers because of their character. There are many who ride on the backs of the few.

 

[Lib E]

You don't like unions, don't work for one. And when you look at your supervisor Ms. Suzy Q the wrong way one day and she doesn't like u and you get fired, maybe you'll wish you were back in one. Although I always see plenty of nursing jobs. That doesn't mean others don't have that right to work for a union job and unionize.

Well, I can see why someone who looks at their supervisor "the wrong way" and resorts to name calling would need a union to protect them. This has never been an issue for me. I treat my employers with respect and receive the same from them.

 

[hornedfrog]

But why should a union laborer working for company X have more rights than a salaried lower management position?

I would love an answer to this one, as well as many other poignant questions that have been asked and ignored.

 

[Rora]

I would cross.

With this economy, I'd certainly cross.

 

[MushyMushy]

How does this apply to the statement that the question was a response to? Are you saying that if there were no unions, schools would have different textbooks, supplies, class sizes and firemen and policemen would have different equipment?

Does the union provide protection and good wages for those employees? Of course they do. I'm not disputing that. Still, those protections and good wages come at a cost, i.e., the "cost of goods sold". If COGS is high, and the corporation is under pressure to cut it... as I said above there are really only a few ways of doing so, most of which involve cutting the jobs of employees who are too expensive for the function they perform (whether they be management or union). It's the trade-off. So long as investors demand performance and consumers demand cheap products, there's not really anything you can do about it

I don't remember where I was going with that. Middle aged brain fart! I swear I had a point.

I think I meant if someone were to dispute that there was a comparison to COGS in those jobs, I was bringing those things up.

 

[krise]

Yes, I would cross.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Exactly why I sought to get into management and away from the union. I was hired in straight from college into a union job. I was young, energetic and ready to take on the world. I had no union knowledge or prejudice. A few years into it I realized that the veterans with 30 years service, who sat around and watched Judge Judy, etc. all day (yes, they covertly kept small TVs in their cubes and watched with earphones while mounting mirrors in 'rear view fashion' so that they could see if a manager was headed their way) made the same money as me. They had WEEKS more vacation than I did. They got all the holidays off. They did JUST enough work to not get in trouble and they had it far better than I did.

But because of the union and because they did the very bare minimum, they were protected. And because of the union, I could be a star performer or also do the bare minimum and it just didn't matter...I would never get a raise outside of the annual bargained for increases. I would never get rewarded with extra time off or a bonus or anything that has any real value. I would never get a promotion unless my 'number was called' - which has NOTHING to with performance other than the ability to pass a few tests and your level of seniority. I got tired of collecting useless pieces of paper that said "Award" on them, asked to be promoted into management, and I was.

Some flourish in this environment. There are some very hard-working, wonderfully industrious union workers in our company. I am proud to work along side them. One of them happens to be my very best friend in the world. They are great workers because of their character. There are many who ride on the backs of the few.

There are many that ride on the back of others at many jobs. My DH when he got his new job last year after leaving his other of over 20 years, both union, took a 9 hour test to get into that job. So far only 2 guys passed in the past year to get in. He can rise to higher levels and positions in this particular job. He is sent to schooling also. Union jobs vary. He did see that some took advantage at his other job while others did a lot of the work and unfortunately that can happen anywhere at any job. He has the ability to rise to many levels at this job and go far and they also started him high bc of his past 20 yrs experience at the other job.

 

[Magic Mom]

I would love an answer to this one, as well as many other poignant questions that have been asked and ignored.

I'm still waiting for answers.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Well, I can see why someone who looks at their supervisor "the wrong way" and resorts to name calling would need a union to protect them. This has never been an issue for me. I treat my employers with respect and receive the same from them.

Actually the term looking at someone the wrong way refers to you not doing anything intentional or particularly bad. Obviously you are missing the point.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

There are many that ride on the back of others at many jobs. My DH when he got his new job last year after leaving his other of 20 years, both union, took a 9 hour test to get into that job. So far only 2 guys passed in the past year to get in. He can rise to higher levels and positions in this particular job. He is sent to schooling also. Union jobs vary. He did see that some took advantage at his other job while others did a lot of the work and unfortunately that can happen anywhere at any job. He has the ability to rise to many levels at this job and go far and they also started him high bc of his past 20 yrs experience at the other job.

Sure, it can happen at any job, but the point is that non-union freeloaders can (and should) be fired. The union freeloaders usually can't be, because they know exactly how much they need to do in order for there not to be a "reason" under the agreement. You seem to think that's a good thing. I think it's horrible.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Sure, it can happen at any job, but the point is that non-union freeloaders can (and should) be fired. The union freeloaders usually can't be, because they know exactly how much they need to do in order for there not to be a "reason" under the agreement. You seem to think that's a good thing. I think it's horrible.

That is absolutely not true, never did I say that was a good thing. I come from a family of very very hard workers. My husband is working OT tonight and also worked OT over the weekend. You should have to pull your weight, you can be fired from union jobs. If my husband found at his other job particularly that he was doing all the work he complained about it to his foreman, etc. I had heard him complain about one person in particular that he thought was a big slacker and didn't like working with and had a particular issue with. They got on the guy.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

And if you like unions, go ahead, work for one, or unionize your current job if you can. But don't expect everyone else to jump on your bandwagon every time you strike, just because you think they should. That's what the thread was originally about, after all. As you've pointed out, union workers have it much better than non-union workers, yet we non-union workers are supposed to put our own jobs or needs on the line in order not to cross your picket lines? And get called childish names if we don't? Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

My mother retired from the telephone company, worked for NY Tel, then ATT and then it became Verizon after 36 years and they only went on strike twice in all those years, although she retired years ago. Certainly not excessive striking. Cross the picket line if you want, you have that right.

 

[sarasotamom]

That is absolutely not true, never did I say that was a good thing. I come from a family of very very hard workers. My husband is working OT tonight and also worked OT over the weekend. You should have to pull your weight, you can be fired from union jobs. If you are a slacker and don't work and they can show that, they fire you. If my husband found at his other job particularly that he was doing all the work he complained about it to his foreman, etc. I had heard him complain about one person in particular that he thought was a big slacker and didn't like working with and had a particular issue with. They got on the guy.

But did he lose his job? That was my entire point. The UNION makes people feel ENTITLED to their job. In the real world, a worker not performing to his potential, would be given warnings. If one did not take these warnings to heart, they would be without a job.

If you are so unhappy with your job, try to find another. Seriously, in this economy, you should be happy to have a job..Also if you like the union so much, apply for a union job.