Would you be upset by this...(update on page 6)

[iwrbnd]

We have to be careful to not over-react when kids are "just being kids". When my son (now 17) was in kindergarten he and his classmate got suspended. They were hitting each other and giggling and finally started hitting each other in the privates. That is what got them sent home. (Both these boys were very good students and had never been in trouble) I remember the principal saying "We won't put this in their permanent record as sexual assault this time." WTH? Are you kidding me with this? The boys didn't even know what they had done! Crazy!

 

[threecrazykids]

I can't speak for everyone on this thread who is bothered by what happened, but I am not upset because I think the girl had any sort of agenda like you are thinking.

It is a privacy and respect issue. If it was a boy taking a picture of another boy, I'd feel the same way. People, even children, deserve privacy while they are in the bathroom. That is what needs to be impressed upon this little girl.

I know often times schools cannot divulge punishments for privacy reasons. But I will be really curious to find out how the school handles this.

Oh I TOTALLY agree that she needs to be spoken to...as should ANY child who doesn't understand/respect another persons privacy (regardless of the picture taker/takees sex). I really hope that it's a simple sit down talk of how being in the bathroom is private for many reasons and it is not ok to go in there.
I am just saying I surely hope there is no charges filed or something big blown up about this...which HAS been known to happen by over reactive parents looking to make a buck off the school by filing a lawsuit etc.

 

[KAMLEM]

May I ask why a boy taking a picture of a girl is any MORE inappropriate?

I don't think anyone is saying that it's more inappopriate, just that society's reaction to it would probably be more harsh.

 

[ckay87]

May I ask why a boy taking a picture of a girl is any MORE inappropriate? They are FIVE. At this age do you really believe boys are more sexually driven than girls and that we should all feel differently about what the outcome should be if the tables were turned? I just don't get why the sex of the picture taker in an issue...

No not what I meant, sorry. I just think other people would react differently if the sex of the offender was reversed. And that's just a guess of mine. I think he'd be perceived as a sicko little boy heading down the wrong path. By others...not me.

And I don't think she meant anything sexual by what she did, but I don't understand what the problem is with teaching her that what she did was wrong.

And most of all, I don't see how it's funny or cute. It's been a while since I've had a 5 year old, so maybe I forget. I have a pretty good sense of letting kids be kids, but messing with a peer on the toilet is weird to me.

 

[Pastamom]

To the OP _ I'm so glad to hear that you haven't blown this out of proportion. Yes what the girl did was wrong, but if the school has notified you, I'm sure they've notified the girls parents also.

As for "learning" this at home... DS's elementary teachers always say to me "We believe 1/2 of what they tell us"

Who knows where some young kids get their ideas??? Dh and I often wonder what is gong through DS's heads - Many times we are sure we don't want to know

When DS#2 was in kindergarten, he threw up at school and told the office that he had thrown up at home and I had sent him anyways - When DS#1 was in K4 - he showed his privates to another boy. Neither of those things were taught or said at home.

 

[FireDancer]

I don't think anyone is saying that it's more inappopriate, just that society's reaction to it would probably be more harsh.

I think this is definitely the case. Double standards and sexism are often pointed out when they are against women but ignored when against men. An example I was "victim" to is not the same situation but is an example of the double standard.

I was running in our local Metroparks one day when I noticed a little girl (probably about 5 or 6) just wandering around. There was no adult I could see and there was a lot of traffic so I stopped and asked if she was lost. I didn't touch her and wasn't even that close to her, probably 10 feet away. Well, mom comes out of a wooded area close by, grabs her daughter, and looks at me like I just asked if the kid could help me find my puppy in the back of a windowless van. If it were a female in the same circumstances I doubt the reaction would have been the same.

 

[Rora]

It does sound harmless for the age, BUT I don't think it's wrong for these children to be taught and to understand that some things should not be done.

My son was very shy in kindergarten-he would have been humiliated.
Not funny or cute at all

I'm so glad the OPs son took it so well because I know personally I would've been very embarrassed!!

I'm sure I would've gotten over it quickly but I don't think it's fair to just brush this off as some kids would be rather upset.

OP- Again, so glad your son wasn't upset. Since this situation seems harmless, I hope nothing drastic happens to the girl. That being said I think it would be a good time to explain to kids what's okay and what's not, letting them know that there could've been more of a consequence involved.

Interested to hear what happens!

 

[JimmyPicker]

Do I find it funny? Heck yes!

Do I think the girl needs to be talked to? Absolutely!

Do I think it needs to go any farther than explaining to her WHY it's wrong and expecting her to never do it again? Nope.

At five years old, the kids need to be allowed to have their innocence.

 

[threecrazykids]

No not what I meant, sorry. I just think other people would react differently if the sex of the offender was reversed. And that's just a guess of mine. I think he'd be perceived as a sicko little boy heading down the wrong path. By others...not me.

And I don't think she meant anything sexual by what she did, but I don't understand what the problem is with teaching her that what she did was wrong.

And most of all, I don't see how it's funny or cute. It's been a while since I've had a 5 year old, so maybe I forget. I have a pretty good sense of letting kids be kids, but messing with a peer on the toilet is weird to me.

You're right on the first point...more than likely some people would think he's a perv but a little girl, not so much. If it were 2 girls or 2 boys we (as a society) would maybe think even LESS of it.

And I agree, there is no problem teaching her what she did was wrong.

Again...messing with a peer on the toilet IS weird because you (as an adult) associate that as being weird because of what you know. As a kid, they ALL go to the bathroom (boys and girls), they are equals. They may not associate that as being weird because they don't understand...which is why you're right, it is a good time to teach privacy. But I wouldn't look at the child's behavior as a red flag or weird. She probably didn't even think about it because she didn't KNOW she should.

 

[JimmyPicker]

And I agree, there is no problem teaching her what she did was wrong.

Again...messing with a peer on the toilet IS weird because you (as an adult) associate that as being weird because of what you know. As a kid, they ALL go to the bathroom (boys and girls), they are equals. They may not associate that as being weird because they don't understand...which is why you're right, it is a good time to teach privacy. But I wouldn't look at the child's behavior as a red flag or weird. She probably didn't even think about it because she didn't KNOW she should.

This! So totally this! Especially the part I bolded.

Kids do silly things because their innocence lets them. They don't think of it as wrong because they have no comprehension of anything sexual, so it's just someone having a poop, and at five, poop is funny.

There was a strange situation at my son's school this year. He's also five. The art class is in a seperate building, and there's no bathroom. My son had to go, the art teacher hates letting them go because she's by herself, and the kid would have to leave one building and go into the next building (it's like 10 feet away is all) to get to the bathroom.

But he was doing "the dance" so she had to let him go. My son goes outside, notices that he's by himself, and he really has to go, so instead of going into the building, he whips it out and pees on a bush.

The teacher was inside, but keeping an eye on him, so she saw what he did. She said she found it very funny, but also knew it wasn't "allowed" behavior, so she asked me very nicely if I could kinda talk to him and explain that he shouldn't do that anymore.

So I talked to him, telling him that some things are private and basically that no one wanted to see his boy bits and you never know who's watching from a window.

From that day on, my son will not let anyone see anything. Not even mommy. When he changes his clothes, he goes into the bathroom and shuts the door.

So while I understand the importance of making sure they know about privacy and appropriate behavior, it's still a little sad to see some of his innocence stripped away.

 

[threecrazykids]

This! So totally this! Especially the part I bolded.

Kids do silly things because their innocence lets them. They don't think of it as wrong because they have no comprehension of anything sexual, so it's just someone having a poop, and at five, poop is funny.

There was a strange situation at my son's school this year. He's also five. The art class is in a seperate building, and there's no bathroom. My son had to go, the art teacher hates letting them go because she's by herself, and the kid would have to leave one building and go into the next building (it's like 10 feet away is all) to get to the bathroom.

But he was doing "the dance" so she had to let him go. My son goes outside, notices that he's by himself, and he really has to go, so instead of going into the building, he whips it out and pees on a bush.

The teacher was inside, but keeping an eye on him, so she saw what he did. She said she found it very funny, but also knew it wasn't "allowed" behavior, so she asked me very nicely if I could kinda talk to him and explain that he shouldn't do that anymore.

So I talked to him, telling him that some things are private and basically that no one wanted to see his boy bits and you never know who's watching from a window.

From that day on, my son will not let anyone see anything. Not even mommy. When he changes his clothes, he goes into the bathroom and shuts the door.

So while I understand the importance of making sure they know about privacy and appropriate behavior, it's still a little sad to see some of his innocence stripped away.

Exactly! Let them be innocent while they can, because we all know too well (as adults) that they won't be able to hold onto their innocence long enough.

 

[luvsJack]

Too many times kids start feeling traumatized or humilated over something like this because mom or dad start throwing a fit and saying that they should feel that way. Most kids wouldn't give it a second thought until an adult starts getting upset.

They are innocent children and the little girl did something she thought was funny. That is all there is to it.

All that needs to be done is someone say, "Sally, we don't open the door when others are in the bathroom. That's the place where we all get to be alone" AND LEAVE IT AT THAT.

There is really no need to get all up in the air and hysterical about something very innocent that happened between two little kids.

 

[mjkacmom]

I think I'd be more upset/concerned at the lack of supervision that allowed the little girl to do this in the first place. Where was the teacher in all of this?

Also, how close are the toilets to the classroom that she was able to actually get in there unsupervised? Are the toilets single sex or unisex? If it's the former I'd really be asking questions as to how this was allowed to happen! Are the toilets communal?

Regardless of all that, everyone has a right to privacy when they are in the toilet.

I'm leaning more toward your husband's way of thinking as what if it hadn't been a fake camera? (Not sure how or why a 5(?) year old would have a real camera at school, but stranger things have happened).

Well, at our elementary school, there are 3 floors. The basement has a boys and girls room, the first floor has a girls room, and the 2nd floor has a boys room. So, kids are going to different floors to use the bathroom, and go alone.

 

[mjkacmom]

And most of all, I don't see how it's funny or cute. It's been a while since I've had a 5 year old, so maybe I forget. I have a pretty good sense of letting kids be kids, but messing with a peer on the toilet is weird to me.

Well, I have 7 and 9 year olds, and I know for a fact that girls seem to peek in on each other in the bathroom at school. It's not right, but it's not out of the norm, either. I don't know about the boys bathroom - I'm sure ds7 is more of a urinal type of guy!

 

[OceanAnnie]

I think this is definitely the case. Double standards and sexism are often pointed out when they are against women but ignored when against men. An example I was "victim" to is not the same situation but is an example of the double standard.

I was running in our local Metroparks one day when I noticed a little girl (probably about 5 or 6) just wandering around. There was no adult I could see and there was a lot of traffic so I stopped and asked if she was lost. I didn't touch her and wasn't even that close to her, probably 10 feet away. Well, mom comes out of a wooded area close by, grabs her daughter, and looks at me like I just asked if the kid could help me find my puppy in the back of a windowless van. If it were a female in the same circumstances I doubt the reaction would have been the same.

That is so sad and strange. It was nice of you to be concerned and ask the little girl if she was lost. The mother should have been glad someone was looking out for her daughter. I wish more people would be so observant.

 

[wdwfan16]

Too many times kids start feeling traumatized or humilated over something like this because mom or dad start throwing a fit and saying that they should feel that way. Most kids wouldn't give it a second thought until an adult starts getting upset.

They are innocent children and the little girl did something she thought was funny. That is all there is to it.

All that needs to be done is someone say, "Sally, we don't open the door when others are in the bathroom. That's the place where we all get to be alone" AND LEAVE IT AT THAT.

There is really no need to get all up in the air and hysterical about something very innocent that happened between two little kids.

 

[Erin1700]

I have 2 kids, a DD9 and a DS3. If someone would have done that to my DD, she would have been mortified!!! My DS would have probably thought it was funny.

If either of them would have done it, I would certainly punish them at home and back any punishment at school. Charging them with sexual harassment may be too much, but only if this was a first offense.

 

[WDWorBUST]

Okay, I guess now maybe I'm the weird one in all of this. I have a DD who is 6, also in kindergarten (November birthday). I don't think she would ever do something like this, BUT in all honesty our bathroom door at home is rarely closed. Yes, I do like privacy in the restroom as much as the next person, but since having dd and always wanting to hear her, keep an eye on her the habit of leaving the door open has just kind of stuck. I think DD definitely knows the difference between the privacy of her own home and public and would know that this behavior is wrong, however I can see where children that young who may not have older siblings whose parents have developed the same bad habit as I have might not.

 

[Mommy2Abby]

Okay, I guess now maybe I'm the weird one in all of this. I have a DD who is 6, also in kindergarten (November birthday). I don't think she would ever do something like this, BUT in all honesty our bathroom door at home is rarely closed. Yes, I do like privacy in the restroom as much as the next person, but since having dd and always wanting to hear her, keep an eye on her the habit of leaving the door open has just kind of stuck. I think DD definitely knows the difference between the privacy of her own home and public and would know that this behavior is wrong, however I can see where children that young who may not have older siblings whose parents have developed the same bad habit as I have might not.

I was just getting ready to post this as well! Currently, my DD is only 3, so maybe I'll feel differently in a few years, but I've gotten in the habit of just leaving the bathroom door open at home. I have a 10 month old in addition to the 3 year old and I'm always keeping an ear out to be sure everyone is "ok". Not that it would matter much, DD tends to just barge in to the bathroom, even if the door is shut, as it is always at that moment that she NEEDS me for something. Hopefully by 5 she will understand that it's not ok to do this (at least to others ) but at this point, I'm not sure she would.

Isn't it possible that the little girl is just used to a more "open door" policy at home? Is there really a need to make this in to such a huge ordeal?

 

[FireDancer]

Okay, I guess now maybe I'm the weird one in all of this. I have a DD who is 6, also in kindergarten (November birthday). I don't think she would ever do something like this, BUT in all honesty our bathroom door at home is rarely closed. Yes, I do like privacy in the restroom as much as the next person, but since having dd and always wanting to hear her, keep an eye on her the habit of leaving the door open has just kind of stuck. I think DD definitely knows the difference between the privacy of her own home and public and would know that this behavior is wrong, however I can see where children that young who may not have older siblings whose parents have developed the same bad habit as I have might not.

Louis CK does a bit about this exact thing in his stand-up.