World Showcase Culture

[jcnewton]

I believe that only Morocco stays involved with their pavilion now. Based on your logic there could be many interesting changes coming all over WS.

What you just stated, has been what I've been concerned with ever since this now-confirmed rumor started. It's going to be a slippery slope now.

 

[NYMommy80]

Don't feel bad for Norway. http://time.com/2827339/frozen-tourism-norway/ Tourism is up thanks to Frozen.

 

[surferdave]

I believe that only Morocco stays involved with their pavilion now.

That's too bad, Morocco would make a great Agrabah.

 

[mvk]

Don't feel bad for Norway. http://time.com/2827339/frozen-tourism-norway/ Tourism is up thanks to Frozen.

See, thats what I don't get about the people bemoaning "Arendelle" coming to Norway Pavilion. Whether Arendelle is a real place or not, it most certainly was inspired by Norway, and is obviously most closely associated with Norway. It's not like they plopping The Lion King or Lilo & Stitch in the middle of the pavilion.

If people are flocking to the real Norway due to the movie, it's not so bad that Disney is incorporating it into their little slice of Norway.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

See, thats what I don't get about the people bemoaning "Arendelle" coming to Norway Pavilion. Whether Arendelle is a real place or not, it most certainly was inspired by Norway, and is obviously most closely associated with Norway. It's not like they plopping The Lion King or Lilo & Stitch in the middle of the pavilion.

If people are flocking to the real Norway due to the movie, it's not so bad that Disney is incorporating it into their little slice of Norway.

You know better...

That's NOT what the dissenters are saying.

Rah rah, sis boom bah

 

[pickers1982]

I'm English and I can confirm the arose & Crown is far to clean and tidy to be a true representation of an English pub. They need to hire a few drunks to sit in the corner a fall asleep, lower the standard of food and serve foreign lagers to make it more authentic.

As an Englishman, is it a true representation no, but it's fun and isn't bad.

Did make me laugh when I was in the shop in the uk(or England not sure which it is) and there's a cauldron over a fire. A little boy turned to his mother and said........they really do cook like that in England. Classic......everyone knows we just go an get fish and chips

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm English and I can confirm the arose & Crown is far to clean and tidy to be a true representation of an English pub. They need to hire a few drunks to sit in the corner a fall asleep, lower the standard of food and serve foreign lagers to make it more authentic.

As an Englishman, is it a true representation no, but it's fun and isn't bad.

Did make me laugh when I was in the shop in the uk(or England not sure which it is) and there's a cauldron over a fire. A little boy turned to his mother and said........they really do cook like that in England. Classic......everyone knows we just go an get fish and chips

I love this^^

Cheers!

 

[mvk]

You know better...

That's NOT what the dissenters are saying.

Rah rah, sis boom bah

I'm sure you've read enough on this topic to see a great many of people saying Arendelle isn't a real place so it doesn't belong in Norway. That's searching for something to complain about.

It's a weak ride as currently constituted, that will be freshened up and become very popular. But hey, Disney is doing it so it must be bad.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

I'm English and I can confirm the arose & Crown is far to clean and tidy to be a true representation of an English pub. They need to hire a few drunks to sit in the corner a fall asleep, lower the standard of food and serve foreign lagers to make it more authentic.

As an Englishman, is it a true representation no, but it's fun and isn't bad.

Did make me laugh when I was in the shop in the uk(or England not sure which it is) and there's a cauldron over a fire. A little boy turned to his mother and said........they really do cook like that in England. Classic......everyone knows we just go an get fish and chips

LOL & Exactly.

Disney is trying to drive more visitors to Epcot. I think "Frozen" going into the mediocre Maelstrom space will succeed in doing that.

Really folks, you'd think that they're taking away "Small World" or something...

 

[pickers1982]

LOL & Exactly. Disney is trying to drive more visitors to Epcot. I think "Frozen" going into the mediocre Maelstrom space will succeed in doing that. Really folks, you'd think that they're taking away "Small World" or something...

Small world is not a true and accurate flection on these countries either haha

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm sure you've read enough on this topic to see a great many of people saying Arendelle isn't a real place so it doesn't belong in Norway. That's searching for something to complain about.

It's a weak ride as currently constituted, that will be freshened up and become very popular. But hey, Disney is doing it so it must be bad.

And I'm sure you're playing naive and realize that the real counter argument is that they shouldn't be replacing world showcase pavilions for cheap overlays to sell princess merchandise and photopasses...

But hey, we can't resist cheap crap or have something non-ipad friendly to look at on vacation, right?

And the kids might be "bored"...and that simply won't do.

 

[Reddog1134]

You know better...

That's NOT what the dissenters are saying.

Rah rah, sis boom bah

Are you referring to the "fictional land" part?

There's a LOT of dissenters who use that as their main argument.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Are you referring to the "fictional land" part?

There's a LOT of dissenters who use that as their main argument.

I'm ignoring that as background noise...

This is about management selling out everything for cheesy merchandise and meet and greets...

Very short sighted.

 

[wallrock]

It's been stated so many times by those of us that are against this effort that it baffles me that this position is still being looked at as a 'haters' perspective, or that we think 'Disney is awful'. I'm beginning to think that the opposite camp is continuing to feign ignorance just for grins.

I'll say it again: There is no issue with having a Frozen attraction.

The issue is putting the attraction in the right place. Frozen is ideal for either Hollywood Studios or the Magic Kingdom. Epcot, whether you look at Future World or World Showcase, is a park whose theme is centered around knowledge of our world, our history and education.

Is World Showcase true to form? Of course not.
Is it a watered down version of what the world really looks like? Yes.

Despite those nuances, the root of World Showcase is in reality. Reflections of China showcases real scenery. O Canada showcases real scenery. Maelstrom showcases places rooted in reality. Granted it does show mysticism with the trolls, however that is part of the culture of Norway. And does anyone care to explain why Soarin' is the most popular attraction in Epcot? The Food and Wine Festival isn't brought to you by Bambi or the Aristocats, Flower and Garden isn't here courtesy of Pinocchio or Buzz Lightyear and I seriously doubt that the suits ever considered putting Villians Unleashed in Future World.

Despite the mode of thinking mentioned above Disney has regrettably decided to take the cheap route (the second but equally critical issue) and go with whatever they decide to do with the Norway Pavilion. This does a disservice to those who like Epcot for what it is and, like it or not, also those who want pure escapism. As stated before there is room for fantasy and cultural experiences at Walt Disney World. What's the problem with keeping those two ideas distinct from one another? If you want to get rid of that distinction then let's take the American Adventure and infuse it with the Headless Horseman because, well, it just fits. After all, that's what it will take to get kids interested in the Revolutionary War.

Sorry Ben and Mark, you need to take a back seat because we don't want kids to be 'bored'.

 

[Tigger's ally]

In today's Disney world (or at least in these forum's that talk about Disney) it never ceases to amaze me that more and more these days I tend to find myself always in minority. I have been 23 times since I was 10 years old. My favorite park will always be Epcot and that is because of World showcase. I am in the minority because I do embrace change. I have been on Maelstrom at least 20 times. I am ready for something else. I took the Segway tour numerous times just to listen to the CM's (where oh where did Patrick go! ARggggggh ) tell us interesting stuff about each land. I sip beer from every single land when I am there for a week. I actually have been known to do it in a single day. Arggggh again I love to stroll through the Showcase with my wife, eat a nice dinner and watch the best show on earth at closing. I enjoy each land, not because I think I am actually in Mexico, Italy or the UK but because I am at ease with the surroundings in a beautiful, happy place ! I don't even know who Elsa or Fanny is but maybe I will after I ride the ride! May be nice to know them. Arggggh

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's been stated so many times by those of us that are against this effort that it baffles me that this position is still being looked at as a 'haters' perspective, or that we think 'Disney is awful'. I'm beginning to think that the opposite camp is continuing to feign ignorance just for grins.

I'll say it again: There is no issue with having a Frozen attraction.

The issue is putting the attraction in the right place. Frozen is ideal for either Hollywood Studios or the Magic Kingdom. Epcot, whether you look at Future World or World Showcase, is a park whose theme is centered around knowledge of our world, our history and education.

Is World Showcase true to form? Of course not.
Is it a watered down version of what the world really looks like? Yes.

Despite those nuances, the root of World Showcase is in reality. Reflections of China showcases real scenery. O Canada showcases real scenery. Maelstrom showcases places rooted in reality. Granted it does show mysticism with the trolls, however that is part of the culture of Norway. And does anyone care to explain why Soarin' is the most popular attraction in Epcot? The Food and Wine Festival isn't brought to you by Bambi or the Aristocats, Flower and Garden isn't here courtesy of Pinocchio or Buzz Lightyear and I seriously doubt that the suits ever considered putting Villians Unleashed in Future World.

Despite the mode of thinking mentioned above Disney has regrettably decided to take the cheap route (the second but equally critical issue) and go with whatever they decide to do with the Norway Pavilion. This does a disservice to those who like Epcot for what it is and, like it or not, also those who want pure escapism. As stated before there is room for fantasy and cultural experiences at Walt Disney World. What's the problem with keeping those two ideas distinct from one another? If you want to get rid of that distinction then let's take the American Adventure and infuse it with the Headless Horseman because, well, it just fits. After all, that's what it will take to get kids interested in the Revolutionary War.

Sorry Ben and Mark, you need to take a back seat because we don't want kids to be 'bored'.

It's no use...

I've been struggling with this for years.

I think it's all about money (not for Disney...that needn't be uttered)...for us "disneyphiles"

I think we're (the naysayers) being ripped off... I can tolerate
That for me right now...but longterm I don't see anything to be proud of in Orlando over the NEXT 40 years. Upsells, automation, actual reduced offerings, pushing the boundaries of fees for service.

That is not WDWs history...but it surely is its present and future.

Fundamentally...they will continue to reject new capital expenditures for all guests in principle until the wallet is used as a weapon. Vacation club and VIP yours... You bet. Included in the tickets? Are you nuts?

EPCOT is special to me and indeed the themepark experience as a whole. It has been copied in small pieces...never come close to being replicated.
She sits on a very slippery slope...and has already slid some. The wand, the "temporarily permenant" millenium village, nemo, imagination, wonders of life. (Just a few).

I do not want a magic kingdom omnimover ride or happy cruise taking the place of the still incomplete showcase. they could spend the money on Spain or Australia. But that doesn't move the crap that they peddle in the pavilion (another travesty).

On the other side of the isle...we have the defenders...
It seems to me the ones that fall back on "universal is no threat do to Disney's ELABORATE theming" and "they're still the biggest/best...what's the big deal?"...also the "ohhhh...an exclusive "me Tarzan, you jane" dessert party at Sanaa!!! Are they selling it at guest services yet?!?!?!"

Sometimes...I agree. Like what a US Rep USED to do. But for me it's a clear choice at this point.

The naysayers are scared to death...the blind supporters are naive and tightening the noose around their own neck (an analogy...not literal or meant to offend at all)

 

[ArwenMarie]

I read an interesting article by Robert Niles today about this whole Epcot thing...

Here was a quote that stuck out to me...

In the "new" Disney world, the individual theme parks function more as platforms for spending time with the company's franchises than as brands or destinations unto themselves. (Remember that the next time a cast member hands you your purchase in a "Disney Parks"-branded bag.) Disney's adding Frozen to Epcot not to try to extend the park's appeal so much as it is doing so to try to meet the expectations of fans it is attracting to the WDW Resort -- fans who expect to be able to spend time there with their beloved Disney franchises, which now include Frozen.

And then his conclusion...

So if you want a non-fiction theme park experience, look instead to museums, which have embraced storytelling techniques from themed entertainment over the years that Epcot's moved more toward fictional IP.

 

[DetroitDisney]

I read an interesting article by Robert Niles today about this whole Epcot thing...

Here was a quote that stuck out to me...

In the "new" Disney world, the individual theme parks function more as platforms for spending time with the company's franchises than as brands or destinations unto themselves. (Remember that the next time a cast member hands you your purchase in a "Disney Parks"-branded bag.) Disney's adding Frozen to Epcot not to try to extend the park's appeal so much as it is doing so to try to meet the expectations of fans it is attracting to the WDW Resort -- fans who expect to be able to spend time there with their beloved Disney franchises, which now include Frozen.

And then his conclusion...

So if you want a non-fiction theme park experience, look instead to museums, which have embraced storytelling techniques from themed entertainment over the years that Epcot's moved more toward fictional IP.

I agree with this.

I am always torn between tradition and change within the parks. On one hand, I only want to see Disney characters from my childhood and earlier (see: 80s and 90s) and have Disney as a time capsule to MY childhood. I don't understand lots of the new thing. Like Finneas and Ferb. What the crap is that about?

At the same time, Disney has to be evolving. When I have kids in the near future, what will drive them to Disney parks? They will have no idea who Mickey Mouse is. Heck kids today dont know who Mickey Mouse is beyond just being a cultural icon akin to Colonel Sanders. They didnt grow up watching Mickey cartoons on the Disney channel.

So we need to put aside our perceived "right" to have it our way, and allow change to continue to make these wonderful parks relevant into the future.

Also. Buy Disney stock. Buy lots of it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Lol...

It is a well written article. No doubt.

But the invisible ink is basically that parks will be transformed into a gigantic meet and greet with bells and whistles.

Now, i'd be ok with that IF it was done diplomatically to interlace new paid events and low cost M&G with solid attractions.

So...that's a lot of faith to put in them. More than the market may bare longterm. Have they earned that in recent years? Be honest.

But, here's the choice.

They HAVE the 60 year tradition of Disney parks to stand on now. That was built during a different era and during different financial times. THAT is an invaluable strength. Some (of us) think that the erosion beneath the pile of cash is to that.

To turn the parks over to IP is much riskier. Because as much as frozen and malificent and marvel is cranking now...from 1995 to 2003 there was no crank beyond buzz and woody.

Are they guaranteeing lasting material AND enough quality to not make the place moldy? Sign me up.

But it is a cautionary plan...ask george Lucas, who though sat upon a huge pile of money...lost an immeasurable amount of short and longterm profit potential by knocking the pilings out from a once in a century property. With his evil little gnome Rick mccallum. Even though their making billion upon billion - I have no doubt there was a huge "unquantified" loss.

A couple of animated bombs...a bad avenger movie...a failed "franchise" like Lone Ranger or John carter...

And you find yourself wearing a $200 a day magic band in 2022 with the same old stuff staring at you.
And you know what will be marketed as the reason for your bounce back?
"The tradition of Disney parks... Walts dream"

Just a thought (I know...I always land on "Tails")

 

[mvk]

I agree with this.

I am always torn between tradition and change within the parks. On one hand, I only want to see Disney characters from my childhood and earlier (see: 80s and 90s) and have Disney as a time capsule to MY childhood. I don't understand lots of the new thing. Like Finneas and Ferb. What the crap is that about?

At the same time, Disney has to be evolving. When I have kids in the near future, what will drive them to Disney parks? They will have no idea who Mickey Mouse is. Heck kids today dont know who Mickey Mouse is beyond just being a cultural icon akin to Colonel Sanders. They didnt grow up watching Mickey cartoons on the Disney channel.

So we need to put aside our perceived "right" to have it our way, and allow change to continue to make these wonderful parks relevant into the future.

Also. Buy Disney stock. Buy lots of it.

My kids are 7 & soon to be 5, they've grown up on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse on the Disney Channel, along with the princesses (daughter) and Star Wars (son). I'm not sure where you get the idea that kids don't know who Mickey Mouse is.