World Showcase Culture

[circus4u]

I see many comments about Disney destroying the cultural aspects of the Epcot World Showcase, most specifically as it pertains to Norway. I have never thought of Epcot as a cultural experience; how can someone learn about the beliefs, social practices, and characteristics of a country and the characteristic features of everyday life shared by a people in any of the countries represented in Epcot? The World Showcase has some good architectural representations of its countries and perhaps an "Americanized" version of the food, but I do not understand how a ride or five minute movie can express the culture of a country, much less be degrading to that culture.

I am older than dirt, was an adult when Disney World was swamp, and Orlando's claim to fame was its two Air Force bases. My wife and I always loved Epcot, although it has changed too much for our tastes now.

So, my question is, how do you define a cultural experience in Epcot and how does elimination of a 3 minute ride impact the learning experience of that country's culture?

 

[Planogirl]

I'll answer since I was so devoted to the Norwegian pavilion.

I always knew that the representation wasn't factual but an homogenized Disney version. That was OK though because the food in Akershus had real elements, the beer was Norwegian, the CM's were Norwegian and very charming and the original ride certainly wasn't outdated when it all started. The ride was too short but the trolls and drilling platform and the cute village were all representative. It worked for me.

Then they took away the Norwegian beer and turned Akershus into a princess meal. They added Frozen to the stavekerk museum I guess to make it cuter and for a while had the mobs trying to meet Anna and Elsa. Now rather than update Maelstrom to still reflect Disney's homogenized version of Norway, they don't even bother but turn it into a fantasy place. It's just too much.

World Showcase was never meant to be exact representation of the countries in my opinion but the idea was rather small slices of what the nations were about from a tourist perspective. Arendelle represents nothing and as much as I like theming I find the destruction of the idea disturbing. I realize that others don't care as much about theming and certainly not as much as I do about this particular country but I see this as just another step in the bizarre direction that Epcot has been going in.

Just my opinion.

 

[Silock]

If you can't find cultural education in Epcot, you just aren't looking very hard.

There are films, art, museums, architecture, food and citizens of the countries themselves. It's not perfect, but what is?

 

[jcnewton]

It's supposed to be somewhat representative of the countries. I always liked that it was unique in that the movies and characters didn't have a lot of presence in WS. It's fun seeing Mary Poppins over in the U.K. and thinking, "That makes sense, she's' British!". Do I want Peter Pan's Flight in the U.K. pavilion? No. I love Aladdin, but I don't want half of Morocco bulldozed to make Agrabah. I would've loved if they'd just did an Elsa and Anna meet and greet in Norway because of the loose cultural ties. Heck, that would make even more sense than Aladdin in Morocco, given that country is in Northern Africa and not the Middle East. While Maelstrom was outdated and need of repair, it still attempted to tell a cultural story of Norway's history. They've changed Akershus into some kind of princess meal with characters form all over the palce, and now this? It's like Disney is just giving the finger to Norway, saying...."It's our pavilion, we can do with it whatever we want."

 

[MichaelaF]

I don't think a lot of people think that they are seeing an exact representation of a country when they visit the World Showcase, with or without any incorporation of characters/movies. But I do think that it can whet the appetite for travel, even if it's not to those countries. I went as a kid and fell in love with it and wanted to go to all those places....and grew up to spend two years travelling in Asia and Africa and four years living in Europe.

And sure, when I came back to the WS and saw some of Europe (especially the UK pavilion), it does seem a little funny, how sanitized it is. But I'm sure as heck glad that Disney didn't build realistic versions - no one wants to tour replicas of dirty alleyways in Beijing or the housing projects in the UK. I'm not sure what else people expect Disney to do to get a more "authentic" view of the place than that!

I do think Disney makes a good effort, given what they are doing. I love that they have people from those countries working there (though I always wonder what it's like for them to work in a "Disneyfied" version of their countries), and they put a lot of effort into the building and plans, as well as what they sell in the shops.

My only real complaint is that I wish they'd add more countries in those spaces! (But I'm sure they never will.)

 

[davedmaine]

Thinking Epcot is a cultural experience is akin to going to the Olive Garden and saying you've been to Rome.

 

[Hollowellfam6]

Thinking Epcot is a cultural experience is akin to going to the Olive Garden and saying you've been to Rome.

Could not agree more.....It's a park for fun with family and friends, not a cultural experience that is defined by each nation. It was meant as a "showcase" not an experience, with some Disney magic thrown in for good luck. Adding characters to each country helps to tie the Disney experience into each area of the world. those visiting from different countries do not expect their countries area to be exactly like home, but the Disney version.

Unfortunately, too many of us feel that change is not a good thing, but keep in mind that change is always good in some aspects, whether you are in favor of it or not.

Maelstrom needs updated and changed in some fashion, just so happens that the current trend is for little girls to experience princesses....just step up and enjoy the ride. It's all about the magic.....

 

[RapunzelIsMyHomeGirl]

Three reasons why the World Showcase is magical:

1.) It offers EVERYONE a taste of the world: whether it is the seasoned traveler or someone who will never be able to travel to one or all of the countries. Everyone has the opportunity to be immersed in the culture of our world.

2.) The immersion itself: Visitors can sample delicious food and treats from around the world; visit exhibits that showcase the history; see the architecture that can be found in each country, and understand the countries that inspired their favorite Disney films.

3.) Inspiration: The showcase is inspiring and I think it helps foster a love for the world beyond our own beautiful country and an interest beyond our countries borders.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Some (most) people will never get to visit China or Japan or even Germany or Norway. But they can get a little sample of it at World Showcase, and that is a good thing. The more the country's character is chipped away out of the pavilions, the less people will get to do that. Just like most of us will never hang-glide but Soarin' lets you pretend you are for those few minutes.

I don't see the big deal with putting the Frozen ride in there because I think this is the sad trajectory WS was already on. But I get it that for some people it is the straw breaking the camel's back.

 

[ChrisFL]

I think we are seeing a different perspective, 30+ years on from when World Showcase debuted. We are SO MUCH more connected to the rest of the world than we were back then.

For example, in the original EPCOT Center opening special with Danny Kaye (which you can find on youtube), they mentioned that for the China film, much of the scenery filmed (with I'm sure a LOT of negotiations with the Chinese government) had NEVER been filmed by western cameras. These were places that were basically never seen outside of native Chinese that lived there.

Now Disney is building a park in mainland China....that's the kind of difference we're seeing.

Back then you couldn't surf wikipedia for information on these cultures, or exchange messages easily back and forth with people from those countries on message boards like these.

I'm not saying that World Showcase is less important, I'm just saying we should keep perspective.

Back to Frozen...there's NO legitimate reason for Disney to put that in the Norway pavilion, besides that they want to be CHEAP.

 

[MichaelaF]

Back to Frozen...there's NO legitimate reason for Disney to put that in the Norway pavilion, besides that they want to be CHEAP.

....And that they want to bring more kids and families to the World Showcase and try to alleviate crowd issues at MK.

(Though how much of a legitimate reason that is....who knows?)

I'm also pretty sure that there are a number of things that execs can see that we cannot, when trying to make decisions for the parks.

...As much as we all *feel* like experts on the parks.

 

[Merida DunBroch]

The only culture being 'Disneyfied' or ruined that I can attest to, imo, is Norway. And even then, I only know because of my girlfriend - who currently lives (and has grown up in) Norway. She was quite...irritated...at the way her country was represented at the World Showcase when I decided to one day show her what it was like. In fact, even offended at the idea that they sold Sweden food in one part and that the dresses the female employees were cheap imitations of the bunads most, if not all, native Norwegians wear; they aren't even the same colors or patterns as they are traditionally. Which is quite upsetting, because most who make bunads could create one in a matter of weeks. And the oft-referenced viking horns; she was really irritated by that, but at least joked about it.

I think it's a good concept, allowing people to be seen slices of cultures from around the world. However, when WDW gives us sanitized, incorrect ideas of what each culture is, then there's a problem. Especially when those views may offend those who hail from those countries.

 

[jcnewton]

I'm also pretty sure that there are a number of things that execs can see that we cannot, when trying to make decisions for the parks.

I only think they're seeing quick $ and a temporary boost to Epcot's numbers. Oh, and to pat each other on the back for their terrific ideas.

 

[MichaelaF]

I'm sure that is all you see. And it may not be all there is to see.

 

[Jing]

As a child, I was mesmerized by World Showcase, and the little tastes of culture made me want to travel to the real thing. In fact, a few years ago we were in France, one of the restaurants we ate in was run by a French couple who met while working in the French pavilion! From my personal travels, of course There is far more to Germany, UK, Canada, France, Italy, and (duh) America than what is depicted in Epcot. It's a showcase, not a replication - even at 8 years old I knew the difference.

Back in the long long ago before Amazon, much of the shopping in the pavilions was not readily available, so picking up a toy soldier from UK and a kimono from Japan felt like rare treasures. Before YouTube, the street performances were not something you could see every day, even if you had cable. I do think It is a shame that the cultural education pieces I remember as a child seem to have been Disney-fied, but I am not a child of this current generation and do not expect them to be impressed or inspired in the same manner.

But darn it I am going to miss Maelstorm!

 

[MarkC71]

Just to play devils advocate here, how much of what is going on at the Norway pavilion is the fault of the country. From what I understand Disney has been asking them for years for some assistance in updating the pavilion and they have refused. Maelstrom has gone this long without updates not because of some sense of nostalgia or because it was a particularly good ride, but because Norway wouldn't pony up to pay for any changes. So little by little Disney has taken over and paid for all the upkeep and changes. Why wouldn't they add a ride that people are both asking for and which will make them some money? One could argue that if Norway had made an effort to keep their Epcot pavilion relevant we wouldn't be seeing a change like this to Maelstrom or Princess Dining in Akershaus. I mean let's face it, it's legendary how bad the Norway movie is yet it's been there since the 80's. Norway couldn't even be bothered to update that in the last 30 years.

 

[etherealcaitiff]

Conspiracy theory: Maybe Disney really just wanted Norway to refurb things, so they came up with the Frozen idea initially to scare them. The knew that people would hate the idea, especially the Norweigans, and that that might be the spark needed to get some progress made. Unfortunately Norway called their bluff and now we get The Arendelle pavillion sponsored by Norway.

 

[DetroitDisney]

Who cares?

World Showcase is amazing. I personally will miss Maelstrom, but it certainly wont limit my experience. I do wish there were more rides in the different countries, even if they were Disney themed.

Ultimately, this is just another way to drive people into the parks, increase revenues for Disney, and allow them to have even more funds for park improvements.

 

[Aerinha]

When I was almost six and at Disney for the first time (two parks only then), I adored Epcot. The "pyramid ride" was my favorite. I was gutted, to borrow a British phrase, to go back as an adult to find they ducked up my ride. Were the old Rio del Tiempo video clips racist and very 1970s? Yep. But they could have been updated and kept the Aztec dancers at the start without obliterating every big of cultural meaning and shoving Donald Duck in there.

The shops sold much more authentic items too. I still have them from 1985. Now I barely buy a thing because it all went to toys I can buy anywhere. Culture removed.

Do I think trolls roam Norway? No. But Maelstrom tied elements of their history together in a fun way. If Frozen was anywhere near the real Snow Queen story, adding its elements would make sense. But it was a rather jumbled tale that tried to be about sister when it wasn't about hiding part of yourself when it wasn't about not falling for the first guy you meet. Somewhere in there was a good movie if it hadn't undergone so many rewrites. No matter what, it was never about Norway, so why shove it there?

Princess rides belong in MK. Put Soarin over Europe in WS. Add a gondola ride in Italy. Make Maelstrom a thrill ride that has you escaping Vikings. Heck, have it take you on a ride to raid the UK pavilion just like the vikings raided Britain. Make it something to do with a real place.

Furthermore, Little Mermaid took 20+ years to get a ride and it saved the animation department. It got Oscars. So why rush a ride in for a movie that isn't as strong and may not bring crowds in five years? They yanked all the frozen stuff out of Norway to go to MK where Princesses go to money monger, leave it there. Let Norway tell the real story of the Snow Queen for those who want to know the differences between the two.

Epcot in general needs a boost, but princessing it up isn't the answer. Not everything has to be for little girls and not all little girls always want to be in fantasyland. I loved how WS was as a child, though I admit two rides and a bunch of movies aren't a thrill to me as an adult. Add more Europe rides. Add more countries. Add anything that isn't total fiction.

 

[Planogirl]

Just to play devils advocate here, how much of what is going on at the Norway pavilion is the fault of the country. From what I understand Disney has been asking them for years for some assistance in updating the pavilion and they have refused. Maelstrom has gone this long without updates not because of some sense of nostalgia or because it was a particularly good ride, but because Norway wouldn't pony up to pay for any changes. So little by little Disney has taken over and paid for all the upkeep and changes. Why wouldn't they add a ride that people are both asking for and which will make them some money? One could argue that if Norway had made an effort to keep their Epcot pavilion relevant we wouldn't be seeing a change like this to Maelstrom or Princess Dining in Akershaus. I mean let's face it, it's legendary how bad the Norway movie is yet it's been there since the 80's. Norway couldn't even be bothered to update that in the last 30 years.

I believe that only Morocco stays involved with their pavilion now. Based on your logic there could be many interesting changes coming all over WS.