working hard=financial success?

[lh193]

Working hard is absolutely ONE COMPONENT of financial success. Without hard work, very few people will be successful. Paris Hilton, I suppose is the exception to that rule -- and really, I suppose we could argue that her family is rich, but she herself isn't really responsible for her financial success. Even if you consider people who discover oil on their family land to be financially successful, hard work was still involved. Someone (maybe the newly rich person, maybe an ancestor) bought that land, maintained it, paid taxes on it.

However, other factors come into play too:

Natural talents, ability, and intelligence. For example, I know a couple kids at school who work SO HARD every single day, but -- for one reason or another -- it just doesn't come together for them. One I'm thinking of is what used to be termed "educatibly mentally handicapped". She can do literally everything in her power, and it still won't be near what my own daughter could do with immense ease. On the other hand, look at someone like Michael Jordan. He was born with natural talent. Someone else could put in just as many hours on the court and still not equal Michael Jordan's accomplishments.

Choice of profession. Some jobs pay more than others. If you choose to be a social worker, you will never earn CEO pay no matter how hard you work.

Thrift. How you spend what you have matters tremendously. We all know people who earn about the same salary we do, yet they're either doing much, much better financially . . . or they're doing much, much worse. Anyone can manage what money they have well -- if they work at it -- so that really could fall under the hard work category.

And finally luck. Being born with a healthy body, with parents who are supportive of education, in an area where jobs are readily available, in a time period where health care is available and no wars are going on -- all these things certainly give a person a leg up. And, of course, the opposite could be true too. A person born without those benefits could still be successful, but he'd have to work harder than a person to whom those things came freely.

So, I'd say that hard work is absolutely NECESSARY for financial success. Without it, financial failure is almost a sure thing, BUT it isn't enough in and of itself.

I totally agree with much of what you've wrote, except for:

1.) Paris Hilton was lucky enough to be born into a rich family. However, I believe she has worked very very hard to sell herself to make more money. She could easily have been just another heiress that we could not name, but she deliberately put herself out there (albeit unsuccessfully) with her TV show, movies, music album, perfume line, etc. While it looks to many that she is famous for nothing, she has not just been sitting on her butt eating bon bons.

2.) Was Michael Jordan born with natural talent? He was cut from his high school basketball team and that spurred him to work harder and practice harder until he succeeded. Few people are born with natural talent. It just looks that way because we don't see what it takes to make that happen. For example, tennis players like the Williams sisters or Andre Agassi often have tyrannical tennis dads that drilled them since they were small children. Even Mozart's dad was a composer and worked him hard when he was a child.

I'll just add to your notes:
1.) Luck has a lot to do with success. If you read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers" he talks about various successful people and how they got there. Examples include Bill Gates, who lucked out with having access to computers (before anybody else) and the time and motivation to put in his 10,000 hours of practice. Had he been born 10 years earlier, he would have already been saddled with a wife and family working for IBM. Had he been born 10 years later, he would have been too late. One of Malcolm Gladwell's keys to success is that you have to put in at least 10,000 hours of practice into something before you can be a champion (no matter what it is). Nobody has skated by on "natural talent".

2.) Choice of profession--yes! Some of the lowest paying jobs require you to work the hardest. Why don't they pay better? Because of supply and demand. If there are plenty of people willing to do your job for less, why would the business pay YOU? The highest paying jobs are ones that very few people are qualified to do (this includes being an actor, athlete, musician--which people often feel are overpaid). High paying jobs also often require sacrifice of time or education (think of all those men who never see their wives or children and miss all the important milestones of their lives).

3.) Thrift: totally agree. One trend I've noticed with a lot of the unemployment/foreclosure stories that are always circulating in the media is the common theme: was making good money, bought too much house, lost job or had medical bills, lost house. While I feel bad for them, I think they were unwise and should have bought a smaller house, saved a large(r) emergency fund, and planned for bad times. It seems like times were good for so long that people never planned for a rainy day and were caught unprepared.

 

[MoniqueU]

My husband rroutinely works 50 to 60 hour weeks. He brings in a upper middle class income according to the government. The cost of living where we are is insane though. I don't believe he could work harder or make more then get taxed more and keep the same take home. I don't agree with that point of view at all.

 

[Planogirl]

Success depends a lot on where you work if you are speaking of the short-term. Some companies are tight and will take advantage of the best workers. You probably won't get anywhere with them unless you know the right people. However, in the long term hopefully you'll move on and put that experience and great work ethic to good use.

You also have to avoid financial disaster. Too much of that can knock the wind (and savings) right out of you.

 

[nunzia]

I have a question that I thought might be pertenant on this board. Tonight, I was reading on another board and came across a post that espoused that those who work hard will be financially successful, and if you are struggling with money, you just aren't working hard enough. I know this smacks of the American dream ideals, but is this really the way it is now? Or was it ever really that way?

I don't agree with this..I know people who work VERY hard, but their pay is low. I think the better statement would be to work hard and spend smart and pray for some luck. I think I know what other thread you're talking about and really..that one came down to this is a nutshell...things might be LEGAL but are they RIGHT. Anyway..we have worked hard all our lives. My DH worked hard for low pay and I hustled with small at home jobs for years so I could be there for the kids..because that was important for us. Then we struggled and worked hard while first one of us then the other went to college in another city and came home only monthly (in my DH case) or weekly (in my case) while the spouse struggled along.
Since minimum wage is what..about $7.50? you work very hard and not be OK financially. But..2 people in a house both working at minimum wage can make $15.00 an hour together and that can help. Hard work doesn't equate financial security, but spending wisely and not having bad luck fall on your head are the combo.
DH and I are still considered lower income, but we're frugal, so I think we're successful..I have many friends who make well over double what we make and live paycheck to paycheck. So financial smarts and a willingness to live on a budget is the bigger benefit than a big income.

 

[nunzia]

What happens if you don't have anything left to pay the creditors after paying yourself? You pay your bills, buy groceries, and THEN pay yourself. Sometimes you job just doesn't pay well. I loved my job but it didn't pay very much. I would rather be poor and happy than have a full portfolio and hate my job. I am not saying that you do. Just putting some perspective there. Some people don't create their circumstances but rather do the best they can with what they have.

It used to be if you worked hard you were rewarded. It is not the same these days. I know that when I was working, I worked hard. I did everything I could to make my restaurant successful. And it was. That did not make the man that paid me, pay me any more. So by their theory, I wasn't working hard enough. Well, 60+ hours a week, not to mention the hour drive, turned a nonprofitable restaurant into a profitable one, controlled my costs, every thing. Didn't change my pay. After a while, it became...get a college degree and you will make more money. Now they want you to have a college degree to be a manager at McDonald's to make $30,000 a year. I looked at going to school a few weeks ago. The major I was looking at was a 4 year degree and made less than that! I refuse to go to college for 4 years to make LESS than I make without a degree.

I did this! I went to school, got a 4 year degree and in Vegas was making way less than my servers and having way less fun...(MGM Grand, 10 years ago, Assistant manager $26,000.) hmmm...worked hard and was scheduled for 50 hours a week and required to come in on days off for training stuff and meetings, etc. I still don't make that at my current main job (also work retail part time for extra) but that job (which I do truly hate) offers me three things I need: freedom ( I help out alot with grandkids), a paycheck and health care. DH works in a high stress physical job, has a degree and 15 years experience and makes about what the McDonalds manager makes..and yet, I feel like we are doing darn good! Maybe I have low expectations...

 

[bored]

Success depends a lot on where you work if you are speaking of the short-term. Some companies are tight and will take advantage of the best workers. You probably won't get anywhere with them unless you know the right people. However, in the long term hopefully you'll move on and put that experience and great work ethic to good use.

You also have to avoid financial disaster. Too much of that can knock the wind (and savings) right out of you.

I bolded the most important part of your post. In today's market and especially in my industry the quality of your work, how hard your work, your attendance mean nothing. You can only advance based on who you know. I deal with morons who can't balance their own checkbooks who hold CFO titles everyday. They had CEO's who were buddies or family members so they got the job & pay with none of the necessary skills.

 

[crisi]

Working hard can contribute to financial success, but is not a guarentee of it, nor is it necessary.

A number of my friends are financially secure through what is functionally good luck. Inheritence. Getting stock options in the 1990s and selling out. Born into the right family or right place, right time.

And a number of my friends are hard workers in low paying jobs. Or hard workers in high paying jobs who have had bad luck (worked for companies that went under or had huge layoffs). One of the hardest workers I know is facing backruptcy because she got laid off.

 

[crisi]

Across history, this has always been true. It's just that in America for the last 50 years or so we have been exceptionally fortunate, and we've come to assume that it's our due. The concept of retirement is relatively new. The idea that ordinary people can own homes and land is not a universal reality.

I am coming to believe that we've lived through a historical aberration. Particularly the "unskilled labor (e.g. manufacturing jobs) leads to a middle class lifestyle." The labor movement which peaked in the 1950s, combined with our post WWII economy and our robust infrastructure when other countries were building, or rebuilding, theirs - combined to make a circumstance possible that wouldn't have been economically feasible any other time.

Similarly, the 1990s were an aberration for IT professionals. You won't see programmers, systems analysts, etc. get paid like that again. The demand with the dot com boom and the Y2K crunch created a demand that drove up wages - and we hadn't yet developed the infrastructure to enable cheap offshoring.

 

[LovableGluttons]

To the OP:

Yes and no.

Yes because by not working hard in your profession, you may not earn the opportunity to advance, which is usually where you would earn higher rates of pay.

and

No because if you don't practice smart money management early on in life, you are then not in a position to build wealth as you don't have enough money to use towards that endeavor.

You could earn seven figures a year, but have little to show for it if you don't actively manage that money to make it work for you. You still have to accumulate money to build wealth. Building wealth is my personal definition of financial success.

 

[SaraJayne]

No, I do not believe that always working hard equals financial success.

Look at the glut of menial/min wage jobs in our country...are any of those people financially successful?

There may be exceptions, but the majority of them are barely hanging on and live right on or below the poverty line. We are a country of working poor.

I would suggest reading the book Nickel and Dimed : On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich.

 

[kymmyk13]

There are too many other factors to consider. I have always worked hard and have made a good living. BUt DD5 has special needs and 2 1/2 years ago I have to quit my job because it was a 2 hour commute each day plus I was working 50-60 hours a week which included weekends. Once DD started having problems and we got the diagnosis, we decided that I need to have a 8-5 job close to home. Well I have that job in the small town we live in but the pay is half of what I was making before, I work very hard at this job but the pay is not there but I am able to take off when needed (DD's Dr.s are 1 1/2 hours away). I am not financial successful in my job because my DD has to come first. Now DH has a great job and makes a good living and we have started a side business a couple of months ago with a friend which we sell food at festivals, which DD can go with us to or I stay home with her. We hope this business will be successful for us but it will take a year or so of hard work.

 

[Colleen27]

I think it used to be far more true than it is now. There was a time when a person could attain modest financial success (home ownership, retirement, etc) on low skill jobs but those days are long gone, and in our zeal to embrace college as the ticket to a better life we have accomplished two things - we've shut out certain segments of our society from that "better life" because not everyone is college material, and we've begun to devalue the worth of a degree by churning out more new college grads than the job market requires.

There is a whole segment of our population that generally works very hard for very little financial reward because we as a society don't think the people who make our cars, pick our produce, slaughter our meats, stock our shelves, ring up our groceries, serve us food, etc. should be compensated well enough to become financially successful. That's what I believe has changed; the basic idea that employees are worth the bare minimum one can get away with paying them and not a penny more, that there is no basic dignity and value in going to work every day and getting the job done, whatever that job may be.

 

[eliza61]

So, what has happened to our country that people can do everything right and still end up with nothing?

Absolutely nothing has "happened" to our country. this has always been the case.

I would suggest reading the book Nickel and Dimed : On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich.

Excellent book. I have a copy if anyone wants a free read. definitely would cure a lot of people from the old "poor people are poor because they are not working hard enough" stereotype.


As with most things, there is no "one" magical bullet that will ensure financial success. Hard work is definitely helpful but by no means guarantees any thing.

 

[LovetheMouse12302]

DH always says he worked hard for 4 years in college so he never has to again. People always tell them your job is so easy (he is a civil engineer) and his benefits are outstanding. Hard work does pay off though...my dad has worked at the same factory for over 25 years(he is off now recovering from a stem cell transplant) and I don't know exactly what he makes, it's really none of my business, but I know he doesn't make much. We lived like no one else so we could live like no one else kind of thing. I remember my friends thought we were weird because we didn't have Internet or satellite tv until 2001. We lived in a paid for house and my parents would croak over the thought of a car loan so they had older cars. I would definately see how my parents hard work made them successful.
Now my inlaws kind of took the easy way through life financially speaking. At nearly 50 they have absolutely no savings, owe too much on their home, in fact I think they owe for nearly everything they have. While on the outside looking in it looks like they are financially set. I'm not sayin DFIL doesn't work hard now, he does. But I think he slacked off during DH childhood. DFIL also probably makes twice what my dad does if not more. It's just if you gave my dad $200 extra a week he would think that would be good to save, in laws would go shopping. I hope my post wasn't confusing. My father+ working hard + financial common sense= success. DFIL+ working hard now in a high paying job= lots of shopping lol

 

[Disney Darling]

I dont believe that hard work is a guarantee of financial success. But I do believe that the lack of hard work will ensure that financial success will not be achieved.

Absolutely agree!

I think you are missing the point of the post. By working hard, the assumption is that you are doing all those things in the first place. The poster on the previous board did not mean that those who were struggling financially were mismanaging their money. His point was that hard work=getting ahead.

It is great that you have managed to get to a place where you are financially solvent, but in this economy, many people have lost their jobs or had health issues to deal with and run up exorbitant medical bills. It is absolutely true that you should pay yourself first, but that can't happen if there is no money coming in.

This is very much our problem! I have quite a few health issues. I come into work every single day and I work hard. My husband gets up and works every single day and works harder doing manual labor. We budget down to the penny! We budget on paper on purpose. We use cash for most expenses yet there STILL isn't enough left over every month!! What do I mean? Well, we work hard and we budget but if I put money away every pay like I should for household repairs (stuff breaks and needs to be maintained) and if I put money away for clothes every pay like I should (you have to have them, clothes wear out) and if I put money away every pay like I should for car repairs for our 11 year old paid for car (these things need to be maintained and do break down) then I would be overspending every month!
By the time I sit down and put a little bit in an emergency fund savings, pay all of my bills (and I don't have cable and blackberries and a landline phone) which includes water and electricity and the minimum cell phone plan we can get which we use for our telephone needs, take out cash for gas and oil for the car (DH and I carpool everyday to save there) and then pay for my medications, one which isn't covered by my insurance, and doctor bills and old hospital bills that I'm still making payments on (but am always getting collection calls for even with paying every month) we still don't have enough left over to really have money for what we should.

No, I don't go over every month but that's because I'm not putting money aside like I should. And, we live within our means, we just litterally don't have enough coming in.

What happens if you don't have anything left to pay the creditors after paying yourself? You pay your bills, buy groceries, and THEN pay yourself. Sometimes you job just doesn't pay well. I loved my job but it didn't pay very much. I would rather be poor and happy than have a full portfolio and hate my job. I am not saying that you do. Just putting some perspective there. Some people don't create their circumstances but rather do the best they can with what they have.

It used to be if you worked hard you were rewarded. It is not the same these days. I know that when I was working, I worked hard. I did everything I could to make my restaurant successful. And it was. That did not make the man that paid me, pay me any more. So by their theory, I wasn't working hard enough. Well, 60+ hours a week, not to mention the hour drive, turned a nonprofitable restaurant into a profitable one, controlled my costs, every thing. Didn't change my pay. After a while, it became...get a college degree and you will make more money. Now they want you to have a college degree to be a manager at McDonald's to make $30,000 a year. I looked at going to school a few weeks ago. The major I was looking at was a 4 year degree and made less than that! I refuse to go to college for 4 years to make LESS than I make without a degree.

Our jobs just don't pay well. It really doesn't matter how hard you work here, there is no money for raises, not even cost of living raises. I'm thankful I have a job but I feel stuck. We don't have the money to go back to school to better ourselves even though we'd love to go. I'm not going to take out a loan to fund my education and be strapped with that bill.

I litterally feel like the working poor.

Also, backing up what the previous poster said, I'm making the same as a girl we just hired with a 4 year degree (which isn't even $25,000). She's just glad to have a job too.

So, to sum up, hard work is not a guarantee of financial success.

 

[shelemm]

We do not live in a meritocracy. Your financial success depends upon how often you can separate the guy in the street from the dime in his pocket.

It is possible to do that with the assistance of hard work, yes, but hard work is not a guarantee of success nor is it a requirement.

All other things being equal, I do believe that sheer hard work will help you be more financially successful than if you lazed around.

 

[brerrabbit]

Lot of topics flying around on this one!

Hard work, or more like dedicated effort is needed whatever your profession is. Whether is manual labor or computer programing. A college degree is extremly helpful in attaiing some of the better jobs but as someone mentioned so many people are going to college now it is in some ways cheapening the value of a degree.

Another person quoted the poster in a classroom that said on average a college graduate will earn more over their lifetime than a person without a degree which on average still holds true, but if that person had a degree in Finance/ Economics even that could be disputed in individual cases. For example, one HS graduate decides not to go to college so they take trade classes in HS, and as soon as they get out apply to and get accepted to an electricians apprintice program, where they work all day and take classes at night through the union. They star making money on day 1. Another HS graduate (and I admit to using an extreme example here but it happens more than you think) applies to NYU gets accepted and spend the next 4 1/2 to 5 years earning a degree in Womens studies and Religious studies. During college they rack up $100k in college loans. Upon graduation they move to San Francisco and work as a photographers assistant. Using time value of money graduate 1 has positive cash flow from day one. Graduate 2 has negative cash flow from day one. After ten years who is better off?

Obviously in this bias comparison Graduate 1 wins. But to varying degrees this happens all the time. The no income period for those who don't attend college and actually go into debt vs those who start making money on day one means that that college degree may never allow you to catch up.

As for the type jobs available anymore the middle class manufacturing jobs have all but dried up in the US. This is no doubt an alarming trend simply because we are moving to a widely segregated population. Look at Mexico and third world countries. You have the rich ruling class and you have the poor. Thats it. This leads to civil unrest, and the deterioration of the country. The US has thrived for so long because of a strong middle class but in articles I have read lately they are saying that there will be perpetual unemployment for males in the 21 to 55 age group w/o college degrees that will run as high as 1 in 4. 25% of these people will always be out of work. That's scary.

In todays environment we need to encourage kids to look at the employment segments that are projected to grow over the next couple of decades and steer them there. Kids need to pick the right course of study and stick with it to graduation.

 

[ssawka]

Across history, this has always been true. It's just that in America for the last 50 years or so we have been exceptionally fortunate, and we've come to assume that it's our due. The concept of retirement is relatively new. The idea that ordinary people can own homes and land is not a universal reality.

I partially agree, however we as a society have stopped caring about people. There was a time not too long ago where you could get a good job with a company, work there for 40 years, retire, collect your pension, and be taken care of for the rest of your life. Now, pensions have been replaced with 401Ks, which have no guarantee of return. Also, companies nowadays have solely a short-term focus. An employee is nothing more than a resource (no different than a computer) to most of them and can be easily replaced when they become obsolete. Add to that the desire to gut any government program that is designed to help older people (i.e. Social Security, Medicare) and the escalating cost of health care and you quickly see why even with hard work, retirement is out of reach for many people no matter how hard they work.

I bolded the most important part of your post. In today's market and especially in my industry the quality of your work, how hard your work, your attendance mean nothing. You can only advance based on who you know. I deal with morons who can't balance their own checkbooks who hold CFO titles everyday. They had CEO's who were buddies or family members so they got the job & pay with none of the necessary skills.

ITA! I see it everyday where I work as well! Some people do absolutely nothing all day except "brown nose" their superiors, and those are the people that get the promotions. In many ways, hard work can actually hold you back. If you are good at your job, you are often held back because they don't want you to vacate a position where you are actually being productive. Maybe it varies by industry, but I know this is true in IT. If you are a good developer/programmer they don't want to promote you.

Working hard can contribute to financial success, but is not a guarentee of it, nor is it necessary.

A number of my friends are financially secure through what is functionally good luck. Inheritence. Getting stock options in the 1990s and selling out. Born into the right family or right place, right time.

And a number of my friends are hard workers in low paying jobs. Or hard workers in high paying jobs who have had bad luck (worked for companies that went under or had huge layoffs). One of the hardest workers I know is facing backruptcy because she got laid off.

The answer to this question really depends on you define "financial success". If you mean being able to provide for you children, buy a house and cars, go on vacations, and hopefully retire, than a good job and working hard can get you that. But if you are talking becoming "wealthy", then that requires investments or inheritence. If you have no wealthy relatives , then investments are required, which means a lot of risk.

There are too many other factors to consider. I have always worked hard and have made a good living. BUt DD5 has special needs and 2 1/2 years ago I have to quit my job because it was a 2 hour commute each day plus I was working 50-60 hours a week which included weekends. Once DD started having problems and we got the diagnosis, we decided that I need to have a 8-5 job close to home. Well I have that job in the small town we live in but the pay is half of what I was making before, I work very hard at this job but the pay is not there but I am able to take off when needed (DD's Dr.s are 1 1/2 hours away). I am not financial successful in my job because my DD has to come first. Now DH has a great job and makes a good living and we have started a side business a couple of months ago with a friend which we sell food at festivals, which DD can go with us to or I stay home with her. We hope this business will be successful for us but it will take a year or so of hard work.

I admire you for giving up $ to care for your DD. DW and I are in a similar predicament. DD has Down syndrome and most likely will need us to support her for her entire life. DW did not work until DD started school, and now works part time as a massage therapist so she has more time to spend with DD. In all likelihood, I will never be able to retire as DD will need the support and benefits that only my working can provide. My only hope at this point for any form of retirement will be by selling our house and moving to a cheaper area. Fortunately DD has not had too many medical issues to worry about. I do have a good paying job, which has helped, but the only reason we have some extra $ now is because we bought our house at a very good time and in a very good area. Even with the economic downturn our house is still worth twice what we paid for it 12 years ago. Again, most of this is also the result of what I mentioned in my reply to MrsPete. We are no longer willing to take care of our sick and elderly!

 

[RitaE]

Originally Posted by SaraJayne View Post
I would suggest reading the book Nickel and Dimed : On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich.

You know, that's a good book and she makes some solid points, but I don't completely buy her "it is all hopeless" stance by any means. There are parts of the book that are simply ridiculous.

If you are going to read that one then I'd suggest your read another POV also

Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream

Adam Shepard graduated from college in the summer of 2006 feeling disillusioned by the apathy he saw around him and incensed after reading Barbara Ehrenreich's famous works Nickel and Dimed and Bait and Switch—books that gave him a feeling of hopelessness over the state of the working class in America. Eager to see if he could make something out of nothing, he set out to prove wrong Ehrenreich's theory that those who start at the bottom stay at the bottom, and to see if the American Dream can still be a reality.

Shepard's plan was simple. Carrying only a sleeping bag, the clothes on his back, and $25 in cash, and restricted from using previous contacts or relying on his college education, he set out for a randomly selected city with one objective: work his way out of homelessness and into a life that would give him the opportunity for success. His goal was to have, after one year, $2,500, a working automobile, and a furnished apartment.

But from the start, things didn't go as smoothly as Shepard had planned. Working his way up from a Charleston, South Carolina homeless shelter proved to be more difficult than he anticipated, with pressure to take low-paying, exploitive jobs from labor companies, and a job market that didn't respond with enthusiasm to homeless applicants. Shepard even began donating plasma to make fast cash. To his surprise, he found himself depending most on fellow shelter residents for inspiration and advice.

Earnest, passionate, and hard to put down, Scratch Beginnings is a story that will not only inspire readers, but will also remind them that success can come to anyone who is willing to work hard—and that America is still one of the most hopeful and inspiring countries in the world.

I agree that in our current economy it is awfully hard for people to build wealth. I can also tell you that through my work I meet many people who are fond of the concept of wealth in theory, but they put up numerous mental roadblocks on what it takes to actually get there.

 

[MrsPete]

2.) Was Michael Jordan born with natural talent? He was cut from his high school basketball team and that spurred him to work harder and practice harder until he succeeded.

Yeah, definitely natural talent came into play -- not that he didn't work hard too. My husband went to high school with him. They were both sophomores (in a high school that doesn't have freshmen, so they were the youngest students), and they were both cut from the team that year. My husband said, "Screw this -- I don't care anyway" and gave up. He likes to joke that he didn't feel too badly about being cut, given the quality of his also-cut classmates! Michael Jordan did go on to work harder, and he made Varsity as a junior. IF Michael Jordan had JUST had hard work going for him, he might've done well on his high school team and might've earned a scholarship to college . . . but he wouldn't have become what he is today. No, he had natural-born talent AND he put in the hard work.

1.) Luck has a lot to do with success. If you read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers" he talks about various successful people and how they got there. Examples include Bill Gates, who lucked out with having access to computers (before anybody else) and the time and motivation to put in his 10,000 hours of practice. Had he been born 10 years earlier, he would have already been saddled with a wife and family working for IBM. Had he been born 10 years later, he would have been too late.

Excellent example. Change one little thing, and Bill Gates would've still done well, but he wouldn't be what he is.

But someone else probably would've accomplished what he accomplished. We tend to think of the great inventions (electric light bulb, telephone, diesel engine, etc.) as being the brainchild of one person of extraordinary talent . . . but most often SEVERAL people were working on something similar, and "the winner" finished first. I read that Alexander Graham Bell beat his competator to the patent office literally by hours (or am I confusing that with some other invention? Well, the point is still valid.) So I definitely agree that luck comes into play.

3.) Thrift: totally agree. One trend I've noticed with a lot of the unemployment/foreclosure stories that are always circulating in the media is the common theme: was making good money, bought too much house, lost job or had medical bills, lost house. While I feel bad for them, I think they were unwise and should have bought a smaller house, saved a large(r) emergency fund, and planned for bad times. It seems like times were good for so long that people never planned for a rainy day and were caught unprepared.

Yeah, the last few years' economic problems wouldn't have been neary so dire IF so many people hadn't been "upside down" on their houses and cars already, had credit card debt, and had little personal savings. Sure, we probably still would've seen gas prices skyrocket, and other consumer goods would've risen as well . . . but if the average person had been a little better prepared, it could've been a bump in the road rather than a genuine emergency.

I did this! I went to school, got a 4 year degree and in Vegas was making way less than my servers and having way less fun...(MGM Grand, 10 years ago, Assistant manager $26,000.)

This makes me think about a student teacher I had a couple years ago: She was a coctail waitress (and must've been a good one), and after she finished school she didn't start teaching because she was making more money waiting tables (and without bringing work home constantly). Of course, in her case, she was being somewhat short-sighted: Her money-in-pocket at that moment might've been better than first-year teacher pay . . . but she wasn't going to work her way up a salary ladder, wasn't going to earn a pension or benefits, and will one day reach a point that the physical labor of that job will be difficult. I don't know what became of her.