Word of warning

[ironz]

As for the protest....it is going to hold up those who either set off an alarm or who refuse the back scatter machines (I refuse to use those other 'alarmist' terms). If anyone is out there protesting, then I wouldn't imagine that it is going to affect the folks who are going through the old metal detectors.
But I have to tell you....their protest isn't going to serve any purpose other than to annoy everyone. I have to tell you..if I got pulled out of my line to go through the new scanner and that line comes to a screeching halt due to some protester, then it's not going to be pretty. It just isn't fair of anyone to negatively impact someone else. Why do I get to chance missing my flight because you don't want to go through the process???

The TSA isn't going to turn off any machine. That's what I have heard on several different reports.

From what I understand, the people opting out of the scanner are going to do just that. It's not like people are going to lay down or have a sit down in the middle of security. They/we want to get to our flights, too. We are opting out. Whether some try to avoid the patdown, I don't know, but I don't get the impression that most people will try for the "double opt-out."

I will NOT go through the scanners. I get radiated at work. I have questions, which have been duly raised by other scientists in the field, about the actual dose. So I won't go through it. (has nothing to do with the actual image being seen).
So...I will be an OPT OUT. Are you going to blame ME, if the TSA takes forever to get to my pat-down? Not my problem. It's theirs and yours. We are given a CHOICE, and I will exercise that right, just like many others will do. I suspect it will not be the majority of travelers.

You can have your opinion on the scanner and that you are fine with it. I have some medical knowledge and experience that lead me to NOT do it. That is most certainly my right, as long as we are given that choice. Just because TSA is trying to threaten people about that choice, whether by intimidation, withholding info about their knowledge of radiation safety, or just slowing the procedure down....take your beef to the TSA, not to a traveller who wishes to opt out, for whatever reason.

Also, there will be plenty of people who HAVE TO opt out...can't stand in the machine, etc. Are you going to blame them? Are you going to blame the ones who go through the AIT and alarm and need a patdown?
EVERYONE that ends up with a patdown will slow the line down, no matter the reasoning behind it, or if they are resolving alarms. Blame the system.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Okay....seriously??? What do you respond with when we are talking about a TSA employee that has had the job for awhile now, long before this new screening proceedure started??? Do you truly think they really enjoy 'touching' you??? Really?

...

Well, let's start with - they can find another job. Particularly if they claim no to like the new procedures. Hey, I don't want them touching me either . . . why do they keep doing that?

 

[robinb]

Although the 'dirty unmentionables' surprises me on two fronts: first, that travelers leave these items floating around in their luggage instead of contained in some type of packaging (e.g. improvised plastic laundry bag); and second, that a thread in which people have been so blatant and forthcoming with blunt terms suddenly goes delicate, referring to underwear as 'unmentionables'

We don't put dirty clothes in a laundry bag inside our carry-ons. We usually dedicate one bag for dirty laundry and the others for clean laundry and extras on our way home. And even if dirty clothes were inside a laundry bag, the TSA agents would have to remove it and root around in there anyway.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Well, let's start with - they can find another job. Particularly if they claim no to like the new procedures. Hey, I don't want them touching me either . . . why do they keep doing that?

You're one of the few posters critical of the TSA who has not also been critical - legitimately or not - of the individual officers' presumed lack of education. You may not have looked recently, but it's not so easy to just go get a different job . Combine that with the new procedures having only been in effect for about two weeks and, well, while it's entirely likely some TSOs may change jobs, that's really not enough time to apply, interview, get a job offer, accept, give and complete one's two-week notice...

 

[CPT Tripss]

You're one of the few posters critical of the TSA who has not also been critical - legitimately or not - of the individual officers' presumed lack of education. You may not have looked recently, but it's not so easy to just go get a different job . Combine that with the new procedures having only been in effect for about two weeks and, well, while it's entirely likely some TSOs may change jobs, that's really not enough time to apply, interview, get a job offer, accept, give and complete one's two-week notice...

Sure . . . but then again those of us that are against the TSA practices get told with regularity "don't fly" in spite of the impracticality of that . The TSAers have know for quite a while what was coming, certainly for a lot longed that the average leisure traveller. So the two week arguement is a bunch of hooey.

I'd really like to see some data about TSAers opinions of the new up close and personal patdowns. By the way, I think the education requirements for the screeners job is too low and that they get way too little training.

 

[goofy4tink]

From what I understand, the people opting out of the scanner are going to do just that. It's not like people are going to lay down or have a sit down in the middle of security. They/we want to get to our flights, too. We are opting out. Whether some try to avoid the patdown, I don't know, but I don't get the impression that most people will try for the "double opt-out."

I will NOT go through the scanners. I get radiated at work. I have questions, which have been duly raised by other scientists in the field, about the actual dose. So I won't go through it. (has nothing to do with the actual image being seen).
So...I will be an OPT OUT. Are you going to blame ME, if the TSA takes forever to get to my pat-down? Not my problem. It's theirs and yours. We are given a CHOICE, and I will exercise that right, just like many others will do. I suspect it will not be the majority of travelers.

You can have your opinion on the scanner and that you are fine with it. I have some medical knowledge and experience that lead me to NOT do it. That is most certainly my right, as long as we are given that choice. Just because TSA is trying to threaten people about that choice, whether by intimidation, withholding info about their knowledge of radiation safety, or just slowing the procedure down....take your beef to the TSA, not to a traveller who wishes to opt out, for whatever reason.

Also, there will be plenty of people who HAVE TO opt out...can't stand in the machine, etc. Are you going to blame them? Are you going to blame the ones who go through the AIT and alarm and need a patdown?
EVERYONE that ends up with a patdown will slow the line down, no matter the reasoning behind it, or if they are resolving alarms. Blame the system.

I have no issue with anyone who sincerely wants to avoid the scanners, and doesn't particularly want to be patted down. I have no issue with those who have a real reason to opt out of the scanners. But I do get annoyed with those who are planning on protesting simply because they can. They will then go around saying..."Yeah, I was part of that big TSA protest back in '10'' If someone is opting out for a good reason then fine, go for it.
It is up to everyone to decide what is going to work for them and what isn't. This is America..we don't shoot someone because they have a differing opinion.

Well, let's start with - they can find another job. Particularly if they claim no to like the new procedures. Hey, I don't want them touching me either . . . why do they keep doing that?

You know...we probably agree more than disagree. But to say they can just 'find another job'...are you aware of the unemployment statistics?? The vast majority of these people are hard working men and women who really don't want to upset you. Of course there are a few bad apples in the barrel. I've been lucky....in all my flight experiences, I have run into only one snippy TSA employee. And given the situation, I guess I can 'almost' understand her attitude...almost.

They keep 'touching you'??? Well, if they don't, they lose their job. Talk about a rock and a hard place. I understand that we need security. Do I feel that the newer measures make me safer in the sky? Not really. Again I will say it...bring in the bomb sniffing dogs. They are much better at sniffing out an explosive than a scanner. Here's an interesting scenario.
I watched a commercial last night..for male, upscale Depends (or whatever the heck they are calling them now). They come in nice patterns and designs so that if you need to use them, no one is going to be able to tell, just by looking. Okay...so you have a continence issue. You are wearing your snazzy new patterned Depends. You go through the scanner. Will it catch that?? Will the patdown??? And if it does, what the heck happens then??? Do they rush you off to the men's room and have you remove the 'offending' item?? I truly am curious...not being argumentative at all. I saw that commercial and the TSA came right to mind.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

How do you folks fly....

If you check luggage you have NO idea how "clean" the agent's gloves were they touched your luggage... and considering what I have heard goes on there... not very woudl be my guess!

 

[disneyfan55]

Where do you think they've been? I've seen CPT Tripss' response already, and do understand about wanting to keep medical equipment sterile (as sterile as possible, anyway) - but up until last week, all pat-downs were done entirely over the clothing. Even now, at least according to reports, the only deviation from that is checking inside the waistband - NOT, apparently, delving down, but simply running the hand inside the waistband of pants/skirts for the circumference of the garment.

Is there a problem with the clothing of your fellow passengers?

There have been reports of the agents going further than that most notably the woman in Newark, NJ on Sunday. I think clean gloves are a reasonable request. Otherwise what are the gloves for?

 

[goofy4tink]

There have been reports of the agents going further than that most notably the woman in Newark, NJ on Sunday. I think clean gloves are a reasonable request. Otherwise what are the gloves for?

Truly??? I think they are there to protect the TSA people, not us.

 

[disneyfan55]

Truly??? I think they are there to protect the TSA people, not us.

Yes, it was on our news plus the article was on the Drudge report, maybe still there. Also, the TSA head was on Good Morning America yesterday stating that this shouldn' t have happened, I guess not. I believe others have had hands down their pants as well, not quite sure on the underwear but in the pants and not just the waistband. Really can't see the need for that. Really should have new gloves, It seems every week since the new enhanced procedures it gets a little more personal as the days go by. I really think the dogs, if what they're looking for is bombs, are much more user friendly!

Yes, agree on the glove use! but really we s/b protected as well! After all isn't that what this is all about.

 

[OhioDisneyDad]

This may have been brought up before but it makes sense to me.

"A Washington Post and ABC network poll revealed that 70% of Americans support adopting the Israeli profiling system and its implementation in US airports."

Now when elderly ladies, pastors and young kids start blowing things up and crashing planes in to buildings THEN we might need to look for something beyond the Israeli system. Until then, I think the Israeli's track record speaks for itself.

 

[disneyfan55]

This may have been brought up before but it makes sense to me.

"A Washington Post and ABC network poll revealed that 70% of Americans support adopting the Israeli profiling system and its implementation in US airports."

Now when elderly ladies, pastors and young kids start blowing things up and crashing planes in to buildings THEN we might need to look for something beyond the Israeli system. Until then, I think the Israeli's track record speaks for itself.

I've heard them talking on a few shows describing the procedure to me dogs/questions/profiling/metal detector. I have no problem with any of that. I have heard the problem here is too many flights. Only 50 or so in Israel. I really can't see why the dogs arene't used. They have to be less costly then these machines! Less intrusive as well. I guess no big money to make either! Yes, dogs have to be trained but not a big corp to make money. These progressively more intrusive pat downs (I think) are getting more intrusive to basically force the machine screening. Yes, Israeli track record DOES speak for itself.

 

[akrake]

not. I believe others have had hands down their pants as well, not quite sure on the underwear but in the pants and not just the waistband. Really can't see the need for that.

so....if i don't wear underwear....and i normally don't with jeans....i'm gonna have a problem.

 

[drew64]

I've heard them talking on a few shows describing the procedure to me dogs/questions/profiling/metal detector. I have no problem with any of that. I have heard the problem here is too many flights. Only 50 or so in Israel. I really can't see why the dogs arene't used. They have to be less costly then these machines! Less intrusive as well. I guess no big money to make either! Yes, dogs have to be trained but not a big corp to make money. These progressively more intrusive pat downs (I think) are getting more intrusive to basically force the machine screening. Yes, Israeli track record DOES speak for itself.

System would not work here with the volume of passengers and flights per day.
Other problem is, yes elderly women could blow something up and who knows who is/is not a pastor. Anyone can buy the clothes and dress as a nun, priest, etc.

Maybe the new pat downs are to verify gender

 

[disneyfan55]

so....if i don't wear underwear....and i normally don't with jeans....i'm gonna have a problem.

maybe. I wouldn't risk it. I actually thought about that when I heard about the Newark incident. There were others as well inside pants no mention of underwear, but if you don't have them on, I guess the same!

 

[disneyfan55]

System would not work here with the volume of passengers and flights per day.
Other problem is, yes elderly women could blow something up and who knows who is/is not a pastor. Anyone can buy the clothes and dress as a nun, priest, etc.

Maybe the new pat downs are to verify gender

no reason why dogs cannot be used. They are used on amtrak daily.

 

[Brer Chump]

So...I will be an OPT OUT. Are you going to blame ME, if the TSA takes forever to get to my pat-down? Not my problem. It's theirs and yours.

Won't be my problem. You will be in the 2 hour long queue for the pat down. The "protest" will only inconvenience other protesters. Others will go through the scanners and will be at their gate eating a Cinnabon while the protesters wonder if they will make their flight.

From what I have seen, the Gov't states that the scanners are equal to 2 minutes of cruising altitude radiation exposure. The highest estimate I have seen from a skeptic scientist is 20 minutes. 20 minutes is acceptable to me. Considering that the radiation is meant to bounce off of skin and not bones, I am willing to guess that it is closer to 2 minutes than 20 anyway.

 

[CPT Tripss]

There have been reports of the agents going further than that most notably the woman in Newark, NJ on Sunday. I think clean gloves are a reasonable request. Otherwise what are the gloves for?

To protect against disease . . . like those other "things"

 

[CPT Tripss]

This may have been brought up before but it makes sense to me.

"A Washington Post and ABC network poll revealed that 70% of Americans support adopting the Israeli profiling system and its implementation in US airports."

Now when elderly ladies, pastors and young kids start blowing things up and crashing planes in to buildings THEN we might need to look for something beyond the Israeli system. Until then, I think the Israeli's track record speaks for itself.

Do you think that the current cadre of frontline TSAers and their management is up to this challange?

 

[bwilcox]

maybe. I wouldn't risk it. I actually thought about that when I heard about the Newark incident. There were others as well inside pants no mention of underwear, but if you don't have them on, I guess the same!

The procedure according to the TSA guy Pistole is for the TSA agent to insert their gloved hand in your pant between the underwear (or jeans if no underwear, I suppose) and skin. The gloves are then tested for explosives residue.