Word of warning

[akrake]

The procedure according to the TSA guy Pistole is for the TSA agent to insert their gloved hand in your pant between the underwear (or jeans if no underwear, I suppose) and skin. The gloves are then tested for explosives residue.

i am NOT EVEN gonna go there......

 

[bwilcox]

From what I have seen, the Gov't states that the scanners are equal to 2 minutes of cruising altitude radiation exposure. The highest estimate I have seen from a skeptic scientist is 20 minutes. 20 minutes is acceptable to me. Considering that the radiation is meant to bounce off of skin and not bones, I am willing to guess that it is closer to 2 minutes than 20 anyway.

Do you believe everything the government tells you?
The fact that the radiation doesn't penetrate past the skin is the very reason some scientists and doctors are concerned. The radiation is absorbed differently than normal x-rays (which is what the comparison to cruising altitude exposure is to).

 

[drew64]

The procedure according to the TSA guy Pistole is for the TSA agent to insert their gloved hand in your pant between the underwear (or jeans if no underwear, I suppose) and skin. The gloves are then tested for explosives residue.

Not going to touch explosive residue in underwear- pun intended!

 

[CPT Tripss]

I have no issue with anyone who sincerely wants to avoid the scanners, and doesn't particularly want to be patted down. I have no issue with those who have a real reason to opt out of the scanners. But I do get annoyed with those who are planning on protesting simply because they can. They will then go around saying..."Yeah, I was part of that big TSA protest back in '10'' If someone is opting out for a good reason then fine, go for it.
It is up to everyone to decide what is going to work for them and what isn't. This is America..we don't shoot someone because they have a differing opinion.


You know...we probably agree more than disagree. But to say they can just 'find another job'...are you aware of the unemployment statistics?? The vast majority of these people are hard working men and women who really don't want to upset you. Of course there are a few bad apples in the barrel. I've been lucky....in all my flight experiences, I have run into only one snippy TSA employee. And given the situation, I guess I can 'almost' understand her attitude...almost.

They keep 'touching you'??? Well, if they don't, they lose their job. Talk about a rock and a hard place. I understand that we need security. Do I feel that the newer measures make me safer in the sky? Not really. Again I will say it...bring in the bomb sniffing dogs. They are much better at sniffing out an explosive than a scanner. Here's an interesting scenario.
I watched a commercial last night..for male, upscale Depends (or whatever the heck they are calling them now). They come in nice patterns and designs so that if you need to use them, no one is going to be able to tell, just by looking. Okay...so you have a continence issue. You are wearing your snazzy new patterned Depends. You go through the scanner. Will it catch that?? Will the patdown??? And if it does, what the heck happens then??? Do they rush you off to the men's room and have you remove the 'offending' item?? I truly am curious...not being argumentative at all. I saw that commercial and the TSA came right to mind.

You are right, here in America we just call people who allow strangers to stick their hands in their undies "good citizens." Yikes, what have we become?

Don't worry about Depends. Probably more people fly with those Always StayFree things with wings. And don't forget those with Poise.

 

[NYDisneyKid]

The procedure according to the TSA guy Pistole is for the TSA agent to insert their gloved hand in your pant between the underwear (or jeans if no underwear, I suppose) and skin. The gloves are then tested for explosives residue.

but when are the gloves tested? right then and there? if not then you are already on the plane and probably already at your destination. so what good would it do if they tested positive??

 

[kaytieeldr]

The TSAers have know for quite a while what was coming, certainly for a lot longed that the average leisure traveller. So the two week arguement is a bunch of hooey

The change in the procedures, sure. Being vilified by the public, being accused of being molesters and perverts, being threatened with arrest and physical abuse? Nope.

 

[kaytieeldr]

From what I have seen, the Gov't states that the scanners are equal to 2 minutes of cruising altitude radiation exposure.

The American College of Radiology, and the head of radiology at Mass Generaly Hospital (fairly well-respected hospital in one of the top hospital cities in the country, if not the world) support this number. No, I haven't researched this myself; the information has been posted in threads about this topic in the last two weeks.

I know there are a number of posters who don't believe the government.

 

[SurfinTX]

The American College of Radiology, and the head of radiology at Mass Generaly Hospital (fairly well-respected hospital in one of the top hospital cities in the country, if not the world) support this number. No, I haven't researched this myself; the information has been posted in threads about this topic in the last two weeks.

I know there are a number of posters who don't believe the government.

Our company which deals with many radiological sources as well as EM transmitters has done studies on similar wavelengths for our Technicians and Engineers safety. When dealing with low power exposure to millimeter radio waves we still shield the equipment from the operators due to worries of long term effects. We are still building up datapoints but sadly I don't think anyone will know for sure for another 20 years what constant daily exposure will do. I personally believe that for the occasional traveler this is a pretty low risk...but for those with certain health disorders or higher risk of cancer this could be a concern. I don't think there is any long term study of dosing 2 million people daily.

Remember this is the same government that gave Pyridostigmine to all of the troops in the first Gulf War but ran into problems when the troops encountered certain chemicals in fertilizers while in the field...which included neurological disorders and birth defects in offspring.

 

[maxiesmom]

I didn't create this thread for you all to have yet another place to argue about the scans. And I don't think our esteemed moderator wants yet another thread about the subject to babysit.

Please knock it off, or else this thread will be closed too. I just wanted to warn people who may not have heard about the protest. I respect you all, but please go fight somewhere else.

 

[SurfinTX]

Again, not taking anything personaly or getting angry about what people have said...

From what I have heard and seen if there is a protest it will take a LOT of people to seriously slow things down. If only 1-3% of the total passengers are getting selected for the extra screening there are many "protesters" that will get skipped anyway.

Now the summer of '11 may be a lot different when that 3 billion dollars is more fully spent and nearly every entrance will have at least one millimeter or backscatter machine installed. Then we will see if there are significant holiday delays.

 

[seashoreCM]

The protest would be somewhat moot if persons who fail the body scan and are additionally patted down get Front Of The Line treatment

And at the same time letting those waiting for the pat down change their mind and choose the body scan.

Problems with knee replacements can be solved by wearing shorts (yes, I see young men in shorts in mid-winter in New England). Unfortunately it is a little more difficult for hip replacments.

 

[goofy4tink]

You are right, here in America we just call people who allow strangers to stick their hands in their undies "good citizens." Yikes, what have we become?

Don't worry about Depends. Probably more people fly with those Always StayFree things with wings. And don't forget those with Poise.

According to the TSA, as heard yesterday from Pistole, hands do not (or at least are not supposed to) go 'down' your pants. The TSA is supposed to run their hand inside your waistband..that's it. I have had that done, it is no biggie. But, of course, there are going to be those who go further than that. This is when we need to jot down names, times and locations. Will anything happen? probably not for a bit. But if every single person starts taking names and other info, and then sending it along to the TSA higher ups, then perhaps a pattern will evolve. If you start seeing the same TSA agent names cropping up, then yes, they should be able to deal with it. But lumping the entire TSA together isn't going to do much of anything.

I didn't create this thread for you all to have yet another place to argue about the scans. And I don't think our esteemed moderator wants yet another thread about the subject to babysit.

Please knock it off, or else this thread will be closed too. I just wanted to warn people who may not have heard about the protest. I respect you all, but please go fight somewhere else.

Nah, it's all good. So far this thread is going along quite nicely. No nasty, rude comments. That's all I ask.

 

[disneyfan55]

Do you believe everything the government tells you?
The fact that the radiation doesn't penetrate past the skin is the very reason some scientists and doctors are concerned. The radiation is absorbed differently than normal x-rays (which is what the comparison to cruising altitude exposure is to).

I know. In a few years they'll be telling us about all the problems with it and that's not to mention the privacy issue. Look at CT scans and how many more develop cancer and how many of those tests are unnecessary.

You are right, here in America we just call people who allow strangers to stick their hands in their undies "good citizens." Yikes, what have we become?

Yes, and maybe coming to all modes of transportation as I read Napalitano would like to see last night!

Don't worry about Depends. Probably more people fly with those Always StayFree things with wings. And don't forget those with Poise.

but when are the gloves tested? right then and there? if not then you are already on the plane and probably already at your destination. so what good would it do if they tested positive??

Exactly, this is a new one to me! Hadn't heard about the glove testing, well MAYBE they are changing them between customers!! Only good side.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

The change in the procedures, sure. Being vilified by the public, being accused of being molesters and perverts, being threatened with arrest and physical abuse? Nope.

you sure...

Go to google.com

Type "TSA Arrested"

"being accued of being molestors etc..." seems pretty normal for them!

 

[Lewisc]

you sure...

Go to google.com

Type "TSA Arrested"

"being accued of being molestors etc..." seems pretty normal for them!

What's your point?

Go to google.com

Type "Disney employee arrested"

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

What's your point?

Go to google.com

Type "Disney employee arrested"

My point is that "they have been accused" of things in the past.

(And isn't the TSA SUPPOSE to do a better background check then Disney does? I mean you would HOPE that you need a more through background to "protect the nation" then to serve coke!)

Oh and I just checked the TSA wait times at Atlanta. The protest is off to a GREAT start... wait times are 10 minutes... (Which is the standard at ATL)

And Orlando's airport doesn't bother to give you wait times (probably because they would be embarrassed to admit what there normal times are)

 

[CPT Tripss]

The American College of Radiology, and the head of radiology at Mass Generaly Hospital (fairly well-respected hospital in one of the top hospital cities in the country, if not the world) support this number. No, I haven't researched this myself; the information has been posted in threads about this topic in the last two weeks.

I know there are a number of posters who don't believe the government.

Do you realize that the ACR and John's Hopkins opinions are based on data supplied by the device manufacturer? This data is now seeming to be inaccurate . . . actual exposures may be 20 times higher than reported. You might want to read the letter Congressman Holt, a Ph.D. physicist and former director of the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory sent to Pistole.

According to the TSA, as heard yesterday from Pistole, hands do not (or at least are not supposed to) go 'down' your pants. The TSA is supposed to run their hand inside your waistband..that's it. I have had that done, it is no biggie. But, of course, there are going to be those who go further than that. This is when we need to jot down names, times and locations. Will anything happen? probably not for a bit. But if every single person starts taking names and other info, and then sending it along to the TSA higher ups, then perhaps a pattern will evolve. If you start seeing the same TSA agent names cropping up, then yes, they should be able to deal with it. But lumping the entire TSA together isn't going to do much of anything.


Nah, it's all good. So far this thread is going along quite nicely. No nasty, rude comments. That's all I ask.

What they're supposed to do, and what actually happens often differ. Again you point out the need for TSA to be clear and definate with what a passenger should expect.

 

[CPT Tripss]

My point is that "they have been accused" of things in the past.

(And isn't the TSA SUPPOSE to do a better background check then Disney does? I mean you would HOPE that you need a more through background to "protect the nation" then to serve coke!)

Oh and I just checked the TSA wait times at Atlanta. The protest is off to a GREAT start... wait times are 10 minutes... (Which is the standard at ATL)

And Orlando's airport doesn't bother to give you wait times (probably because they would be embarrassed to admit what there normal times are)

ETA - bolding above is mine, not OP's

You know, actually the protest was effective as of yesterday. I think that a lot of DISsers (and real people too) are now thinking about the issue that previously did not.

 

[Lewisc]

ETA - bolding above is mine, not OP's

You know, actually the protest was effective as of yesterday. I think that a lot of DISsers (and real people too) are now thinking about the issue that previously did not.

Posters on DIS complain about profitable airfares. Many, probably most, of the people complaining about the TSA on DIS aren't willing to pay the kind of $$$ it would take to implement a significantly better system.

Security is a per passenger expense. Would DIS be happy if the 9-11 security fee went up to $20? $25?

A few years ago a TSA supervisor said they were having problems getting employees. The airport food court paid better. I don't think this is currently literally true but TSA agents aren't paid like "real" cops. We really shouldn't expect them to be as qualified as "real cops".

You made one reasonable point. TSA probably needs to have a system to scan the bar code on the BP, (assuming they can easily link the bar code to the name of the passenger)

 

[Brer Chump]

Do you realize that the ACR and John's Hopkins opinions are based on data supplied by the device manufacturer? This data is now seeming to be inaccurate . . . actual exposures may be 20 times higher than reported. You might want to read the letter Congressman Holt, a Ph.D. physicist and former director of the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory sent to Pistole.

So that would be the equivalent of 40 minutes radiation at cruising altitude. Somehow that does not seem excessive considering that 1000's of people world wide spend their work day at altitude.

Additionally all complaints about the violation of the 4th Amendment and privacy rights are all non-issues. There is case law aplenty which allows for airport screening such as UNITED STATES v. AUKAI which states that even if consent is not given and a passenger states that they no longer wish to fly, then the TSA has a right to continue searching and detain the person further. This decision was even decided in the US 9th District of Appeals, the most liberal court in the country.