Will you fly on a Boeing 737 Max 8?

[jalapeno_pretzel]

The whole thing stems from Boeing trying to cut corners by reusing the 737 air frame with it's new, heavier, more efficient engines. The air frame was designed for engines of a certain weight, and when they got these heavier engines, it added weight in the back half of the plane, causing the nose to want to pitch up - which could create a stall condition. Then enter their special "compensation" software to force the nose down in that event (and apparently even when that event has not happened). When they're having to band-aid fixes together to get around a design flaw, that's not good engineering.

 

[kdonnel]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/04/03/africa/ethiopian-airlines-emergency-procedures-intl/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

Time to quote the posts of shame in this thread!



They reached the right conclusion but they were late to the party.



Lol yeah political pressure



Good luck



How about now? You panicking?



How about now?



Ethiopian pilots followed Boeing's procedures.



Is the evidence still flimsy?



Political huh?



Panicked decision huh?



Awful post. Boeing should be the ones paying out huge money and they will.



NTSB was late to the party.



Wrong. Ethiopian pilots followed Boeing's procedures. You can apologize now to them if you like.



Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Ouch!



Wrong, wrong and wrong. Ouch!



Ouch!!



Wrong.



Pilots followed procedures.



No chance

Ohhhh. Burn.

I would still fly one today with properly trained pilots.

I would avoid airlines that continue to fly a plane that demonstrated a sensor issue the flight before. Why did the prior pilots not log the failure for a maintenance check? Or did they and the mechanics signed off on a faulty plane?

 

[DeniseJH]

Ohhhh. Burn.

I would still fly one today with properly trained pilots.

They don't actually allow you to interview the pilots before your flight.

 

[dish rag]

Ohhhh. Burn.

I would still fly one today with properly trained pilots.

A friend has over 20,000 hours flying the 737. Had flown the other Boeing jets except the MAX but said he would in a heartbeat. Said that the Ethiopian pilot had less hours than his airline would hire a new hire at and that the co pilot at 200 hours was “useless”. I know nothing about this stuff. But he does. He also said that and mentioned he would never fly Malaysian Ethiopian or Malaysian carriers. And several others.

 

[DLgal]

The whole thing stems from Boeing trying to cut corners by reusing the 737 air frame with it's new, heavier, more efficient engines. The air frame was designed for engines of a certain weight, and when they got these heavier engines, it added weight in the back half of the plane, causing the nose to want to pitch up - which could create a stall condition. Then enter their special "compensation" software to force the nose down in that event (and apparently even when that event has not happened). When they're having to band-aid fixes together to get around a design flaw, that's not good engineering.

The lack of a double or triple redundancy in the sensor readings was the design failure, not so much reusing the frame, although technically, the condition created by this engine placement (the tendency to nose up and stall) is one that is NOT acceptable on passenger transport planes (which potentially would have been uncovered during a PROPER certification process). This type of event happens often in military jets but it's an "allowed" condition in that case, presumably because those planes require a whole lot more hands on operation and need to be especially maneuverable.

Boeing failed at setting the MCAS to engage with the readings off only one sensor. Should have been at least 2, potentially 3. Because if one fails, you cannot assume the other is correct. It should require 2 sensors in agreement in order to engage.

 

[DLgal]

Apparently, in the new testing they did on the software fix, Boeing had pilots fly the simulator BEFORE the software fix, and recreated the MCAS situation encountered by the pilots of the doomed flights. The pilots reported that they had 40 SECONDS to successfully disengage the MCAS system before the plane went into an unrecoverable dive. Not all the pilots were able to do this. Some failed. These were all US Pilots from American, United, and Southwest. They were all pretty horrified how quickly they had to respond in order to maintain control of the plane. And remember, these pilots were in a simulation where they knew what was going to happen. 40 seconds isn't enough time.

It was apparently this experience that shook the pilots and airline executives enough that they expressed concern with Boeing that their first fix did not go far enough.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Ohhhh. Burn.

I would still fly one today with properly trained pilots.

I would avoid airlines that continue to fly a plane that demonstrated a sensor issue the flight before. Why did the prior pilots not log the failure for a maintenance check? Or did they and the mechanics signed off on a faulty plane?

Nobody forced you to go out on that limb. You did that all by yourself. Would you like a little salt for that skinned knee?

 

[DeniseJH]

Ohhhh. Burn.

I would still fly one today with properly trained pilots.

I would avoid airlines that continue to fly a plane that demonstrated a sensor issue the flight before. Why did the prior pilots not log the failure for a maintenance check? Or did they and the mechanics signed off on a faulty plane?

I see you edited your post to add the last line - it doesn't change the fact that you don't get to interview the pilots, or the mechanics, before a flight. We have to be able to rely on the manufacturers and the FAA.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/04/03/africa/ethiopian-airlines-emergency-procedures-intl/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

Time to quote the posts of shame in this thread!



They reached the right conclusion but they were late to the party.



Lol yeah political pressure



Good luck



How about now? You panicking?



How about now?



Ethiopian pilots followed Boeing's procedures.



Is the evidence still flimsy?



Political huh?



Panicked decision huh?



Awful post. Boeing should be the ones paying out huge money and they will.



NTSB was late to the party.



Wrong. Ethiopian pilots followed Boeing's procedures. You can apologize now to them if you like.



Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Ouch!



Wrong, wrong and wrong. Ouch!



Ouch!!



Wrong.



Pilots followed procedures.



No chance

 

[mnrose]

I think the Max8 is done. No one will buy it Tons of passengers won't fly it. Stick a fork in it Boeing. Back to the drawing board with a NEW aircraft engineered to handle the larger engines so you don't need to do "work arounds" with the plane designed for smaller engines.

I won't fly that aircraft for certain until it has a proven track record To date, it does not.

 

[mnrose]

Interesting article:

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/is-the-boeing-737-max-worth-saving.html

 

[Maistre Gracey]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/04/03/africa/ethiopian-airlines-emergency-procedures-intl/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

Time to quote the posts of shame in this thread!



They reached the right conclusion but they were late to the party.



Lol yeah political pressure



Good luck



How about now? You panicking?



How about now?



Ethiopian pilots followed Boeing's procedures.



Is the evidence still flimsy?



Political huh?



Panicked decision huh?



Awful post. Boeing should be the ones paying out huge money and they will.



NTSB was late to the party.



Wrong. Ethiopian pilots followed Boeing's procedures. You can apologize now to them if you like.



Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Ouch!



Wrong, wrong and wrong. Ouch!



Ouch!!



Wrong.



Pilots followed procedures.



No chance

Why would I panic?
Why would I be shamed?

Your logic does not make sense to me.

 

[DeniseJH]

Why would I panic?
Why would I be shamed?

Your logic does not make sense to me.

And you are a pilot, correct? I will defer to you on all things aviation.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

And you are a pilot, correct? I will defer to you on all things aviation.

yes, I make my living bringing thousands of good folks to Disney!!

That said, I only know enough about the Max accidents to know that we should wait for the investigation findings. Jumping to conclusions is never a good idea.

I have also consistently said that if a common link is established between the two Max accidents, than the FAA should ground the airplane.

 

[nd5056]

Interesting article:

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/is-the-boeing-737-max-worth-saving.html

The plane may be fixed and flying just fine after whatever point of time. But it's reputation may never recover.

 

[kdonnel]

I see you edited your post to add the last line - it doesn't change the fact that you don't get to interview the pilots, or the mechanics, before a flight. We have to be able to rely on the manufacturers and the FAA.

To avoid the issue you just fly reputable airlines with a history of well trained pilots.

That is not the case with many small airlines based in developing countries.

 

[kdonnel]

I think the Max8 is done. No one will buy it Tons of passengers won't fly it. Stick a fork in it Boeing. Back to the drawing board with a NEW aircraft engineered to handle the larger engines so you don't need to do "work arounds" with the plane designed for smaller engines.

I won't fly that aircraft for certain until it has a proven track record To date, it does not.

When you have flown in the past did you choose your flights based on manufacturer or plane type?

Most of the flying public does not.

I have said before that many have no idea if the plane they are in is made by Airbus or Boeing, let alone the specific type.

By your logic SouthWest is cooked as well. Might as well just close up shop. Their entire future is based on the 737 MAX 8.

I do if given the choice to fly a different or unique plane. For my upcoming trip to Vegas I choose a delta flight on a 757-300. I have flown the 757-200 many times but never the 757-300.

 

[DeniseJH]

To avoid the issue you just fly reputable airlines with a history of well trained pilots.

That is not the case with many small airlines based in developing countries.

Do we know for fact that all U.S airlines trained their pilots how to deal with this situation?

 

[DeniseJH]

That is not the case with many small airlines based in developing countries.

Of course it isn't! 200 hours for a Captain? Kind of nuts!!

 

[pixiedustedme]

To avoid the issue you just fly reputable airlines with a history of well trained pilots.

That is not the case with many small airlines based in developing countries.

Quality pilots aren't guaranteed by the home country of the airline. Remember the German pilot who intentionlly flew his plane into a mountain?