Will they change the 2008 plan?

I don't think they've increased their profit 30%, since (most likely intentionally) the changes will likely prompt fewer patrons to elect the Dining Plan, thereby opening the restaurants up a bit.
I suspect most restaurants will still be mostly full---but ADRs will be (and so far for late February 2008, are) easier to come by.

But, because fewer guests are on the plan, there will be fewer discounted meals sold---every non-plan guest is a full-freight guest (modulo DDE), and so if the restuarants can keep mostly busy, this is a win-win for Disney. Fewer discounted meals, and those that are discounted are not as steeply so.

Interestingly, the DDE card's price for APers was just decreased by $5...read into that what you will.
 
That's cool, and again, why we do the same thing. On average, as we do at least 1 character meal per day, we will still save in the range of $2-300 by doing the plan. This is going off of what we did and ate on our last two trips.

Yeah, I think it stinks that the tips and apps. are gone, but I was also trying to get across that they could have kept everything in, and raised the price considerably. Either way, for SOME, the plan is still a win-win for now. :)

I agree with that point too! I actually agree with your whole post, just felt the need to point out that individual scrutiny can go both ways - in DDP's favor or not.

It can be a fantastic deal, a good deal or a not so great deal - depending on each family. Important to know is that it's not a requirement to buy it, which is the point of your OP was.

Regardless of the 2008 changes made, it is what it is this year and everyone needs to decide if the new plan works for them. I'd be shocked if it changed mid year. I think if any changes are made they'll be made in 2009.
 
I think those cost estimates are reasonable (a little low for some appetizers), and 29.5% is close enough to 30% for me.
Your calculations didn't adequately account for reduction in business. I believe fewer people are going to patronize the Dining Plan and the restaurants.

Also, I think your assumption that volume in the restaurants will decline is flawed.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. While throughput will increase, I suspect that the biggest impact of that we'll see is improved service, because the staff won't be as rushed as they were last year. In the end, despite your contention to the contrary, I still believe fewer people are going to patronize the Dining Plan and the restaurants.

DDP 2008 will be a LOT more profitable than DDP 2007 and previous years.
A 10% increase in profit is a LOT.
 
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I feel bad for the servers :confused3
 

IMOP they are trying to do away with the plan.
 
Well, they don't really need to "try"; if they wanted it gone, then it would be gone. They simply don't want it to be a substantial discount any longer. They want it to just be (marginally better than) a pre-payment plan.
 
Your calculations didn't adequately account for reduction in business. I believe fewer people are going to patronize the Dining Plan and the restaurants.
My calculations estimate the gross margin on each day of an adult being on DDP 2008. They have nothing to do with traffic changes in the restaurants.

Also, I think they're pretty accurate compared to a ballpark SWAG of 10%. I'm always a little suspicious of numbers that are nice and round, and just thrown "out there." My estimates of the effect on Disney's gross margin (sales - cost of sales expressed as a percentage) are based on reasonable estimates of real numbers.

Focusing on volume is like the old joke (and it IS a joke, folks), "We lose a little bit on each sale, but we make it up in volume."

Regarding "throughput," I think Brian Noble has a much better grasp of that. He's saying that they will still be filling the restaurants, but ADRs will be easier to get because of the increased turnover. Again that's not a SWAG, it's a reasonable deduction based on a sound understanding of the situation, the probable effect of changes made, and reasonable logic.

I don't believe the Mouse is going to leave their restaurants half-full (or even 95% full) if they have an opportunity to pack the house.

Not everyone believes the Mouse is always right...or that he/she always has our interests in mind. From the start, DDP has been about increasing profit -- nothing else. And 2008 is no different.
 
If they're trying to do away with the plan, it's not working. If these boards are any indication, plenty of visitors are still buying the plan, not to mention the deluxe plan. They want it for the convenience, and for a lot of guests it's still a deal, although not as good a deal as the original plan. And those on the basic might be persuaded to part with some cash for appetizers.

Might not be the total dining plan blitz that has gone on the past couple of years, but that means they can cycle more people through the restaurants, which are still doing bangup business without WDW having to throw in that pesky tip.

And I would bet they don't raise the price on the basic because it means more to them right now to market a WDW package vacation as "affordable for the average family." Especially now, when a lot of the country is busy cutting back on spending because energy and health care are so expensive.
 
My calculations estimate the gross margin on each day of an adult being on DDP 2008.
That was my point: You were only factoring on the per-adult numbers instead of looking at the overall.
 
That was my point: You were only factoring on the per-adult numbers instead of looking at the overall.
If you put my numbers with Brian Noble's estimate of "throughput," they come out much closer to my calculations than to your guess.
 
I still believe fewer people are going to patronize the Dining Plan and the restaurants.
This is *two* beliefs, not one.

1: fewer people will buy the plan
2: restaurants will seat fewer patrons

I fully agree with belief #1. The value has been cut significantly, and straightforward economics suggests that a reduction in plan uptake must follow.

I am less convinced about belief #2. I suspect some restaurants will probably see a drop-off in business. But, I also suspect nearly all theme park locations, and many resort locations, will remain at or near capacity for much of the year. They may have to take in more walk-ups, but we've all seen many walk-ups turned away, night after night, at many of these restaurants, even at off hours.

There is significant unmet demand for the sit down restaurants in the theme parks at all but the slowest of times. This unmet demand now has an outlet, because there are fewer DDP guests hogging tables eating discounted meals. As more reports from January and February pre P-Week come in, we'll know a lot more about how busy these restaurants are during slower times in the parks. And, even if they aren't quite full, the average revenue per diner is likely to go up, because more Plan dollars go to the restaurant (rather than to the servers in gratuities), and there are fewer Plan guests. Anyone else is paying full-freight, excepting of course the DDE guests.

More broadly, I've always viewed DDP first and foremost as a mechanism to further create a captive audience. Nearly every new marketing program disney has come up with in the past three years---ME, the MYW ticket structure, and DDP---has been geared to capture, in advance, every available hour and dollar of the average guest. Filling the restaurants was never the point. Filling the resorts with people who pre-purchased everything they needed for their entire vacation was the point. Why spend a day at Universal, when that 5th day at Disney only costs $2? Why worry about saving a few bucks in an offsite restaurant when (a) we don't have a car thanks to ME and resort transportation, and (b) the dining plan is such a good deal?

But, the Mouse's marketing has been almost too successful. Resorts were at 90% capacity for FY 2007. Think about that. The industry average is somewhere in the 60s. At WDW, 90% of every available room-night was booked---and in this past year, discounts were still fewer and farther between, so I suspect RevPAR did even better. We'll know for sure when the Annual Report is released.

So, the DDP is not needed as much to fill hotel rooms, so they can afford to reduce its uptake rate, while extracting more profit from those who do use it.

What's most interesting to me is that, so far, Disney is not adding any cash room capacity. New DVC units are coming on-line, but no new cash resorts---and DVC is cannibalizing some existing cash units at CR and AKL. The only new cash rooms on property are being built at the expense of third parties. That's an interesting phenomenon when room occupancy is in the stratosphere.
 












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