Will expected tip amounts ever get this high?

[kamik86]

Given the choice of an empty table or our party, I've no doubt she would prefer the tip she got over nothing at all. You can throw crass comments all you like but its not going to change my mind on tipping. I don't feel bad because -you- want me to. I earn my money like anyone else and am not going to throw it freely at a server just because people like you think I should. When a restaurant makes a percentage tip (or any tip) mandatory then I will choose to eat elsewhere. Until then, tipping is subjective and you'll just have to accept that

jrmasm's point is that this logic that it was better to get the $8 then nothing at all works in only some cases. If your dining at an off time or when the resteraunt isn't busy then yes I would imagine $8 is better then an empty table.

If this dinner occurred on Saturday night and there was a wait for tables however then this argument doesn't work, because the table wouldn't have been empty even if you hadn't shown up.

 

[Disneyliscious]

Do what you want but don't be shocked when people think you're cheap.

I'm totally ok with that!

If this dinner occurred on Saturday night and there was a wait for tables however then this argument doesn't work, because the table wouldn't have been empty even if you hadn't shown up.

It was a Saturday afternoon around 4pm. No wait, all tables were not full. I don't dine at high end restaurants. Food isn't that important to me. This was the equivalent of a Logans or Santa Fe. Even if it had been 7pm (a busier time) I would have tipped the same. If I hadn't used the table it does not guarantee the next person who sat there would have tipped any more or less than I. So saying the waitress would have been happier if we hadn't chosen to eat there is moot. A patron could have sit down and tipped $2 just as easily as $20. In the end, she had my guaranteed $8.50.

 

[powellrj]

Does anyone think that Springs1 is back and posting on this thread under a new name?

 

[mondragon]

Excellent way of putting it.

A tip should be considered a gesture from a patron that a nice job was done. It should not, under any circumstances, be expected. And again, for the server I gave a $100 bill to for a $91 meal....I'm sure she'd much rather have my $8 and change tip than for my party of 3 to not have ate at all. We had one app, 3 entrees, 3 drinks. No desserts. She walked to our table a total of 5 times (once to take drink/app order, once to deliver app, once to deliver drinks, once to deliver entrees, once to refill drinks and give the check). As she was walking by from another table I gave her the $100 and a check so no special trip was made. She earned about $1.70 per trip for walking to our table and setting our food down. Not too shabby. I deal in cash and never use my debit card at a restaurant. Dont have a credit card. My tips are always cash and its up to the server if they report it as income or not. If she reported it and was taxed 15% thats roughly $1.27 of her $8.50 tip which makes it a $7.23 tip for an hours "work" of bring food to my table. Thats now $1.45 per trip to my table. This restaurant was not a tip share restaurant. So even if she reported the income, she still made between $9.50 and $10 an hour for the hour I was there. I'm not concerned with paying for the hours other people are there.

Are you serious. That's less than a 10% tip. You know they don't get to keep the whole tip too. A portion also goes to the busboys and sometimes kitchen staff. Obviously you need the money more than the staff does if that is all you can afford. What's bad is that you are teaching you kids how to treat servers in a restaurant.

 

[mondragon]

I'm totally ok with that!



It was a Saturday afternoon around 4pm. No wait, all tables were not full. I don't dine at high end restaurants. Food isn't that important to me. This was the equivalent of a Logans or Santa Fe. Even if it had been 7pm (a busier time) I would have tipped the same. If I hadn't used the table it does not guarantee the next person who sat there would have tipped any more or less than I. So saying the waitress would have been happier if we hadn't chosen to eat there is moot. A patron could have sit down and tipped $2 just as easily as $20. In the end, she had my guaranteed $8.50.

A European would have tipped more than you and they are not customary to tip. In fact, everyone would have tipped more than you. You were the table of the night.

 

[mondragon]

I'm totally ok with that!



It was a Saturday afternoon around 4pm. No wait, all tables were not full. I don't dine at high end restaurants. Food isn't that important to me. This was the equivalent of a Logans or Santa Fe. Even if it had been 7pm (a busier time) I would have tipped the same. If I hadn't used the table it does not guarantee the next person who sat there would have tipped any more or less than I. So saying the waitress would have been happier if we hadn't chosen to eat there is moot. A patron could have sit down and tipped $2 just as easily as $20. In the end, she had my guaranteed $8.50.

Actually what you should have done is complain about the food after you were finished so you can get the meal for free and leave no tip because it was the waiters fault the food was bad.

 

[MKMomma]

Actually what you should have done is complain about the food after you were finished so you can get the meal for free and leave no tip because it was the waiters fault the food was bad.

You seem very concerned about how others spend their money.

 

[mondragon]

You seem very concerned about how others spend their money.

Not really but when people think it's ok to shortchange wait staff I take it personally. I had to do that when I was out of work and was good at it but every so often I had those tables that was ok with leaving a tip. The restaurant I worked at was near a few churches and I had to work lunch on Sunday. The church people were the worst. They would leave notes like "God bless!! We give 10% to god so we think you should get 5%". It stinks working a 6 hr shift and only going home with $50.

 

[Goon]

I shake my head at the poster who pays 2.50 a person tip regardless of where they are dining. These people actually coast the server money. If you tip 10 on a 140 tab, the server pays taxes and tips out to bar and bus staff more than 10. So that server loses money by serving you. I could never do that to a server. How shameful.

That poster was the type of table I made the rookie waitstaff wait on. You have to learn the ignorance of humanity somehow, and watching someone logic out that it's OK to pay a guy who has maybe 3 tables all night in a 5 star restaurant 2.50 a head because they worked at waffle house in their youth and got stiffed on 10 dollar tabs is a great way to learn disappointment.

But hey, not everyone is cut out to be a decent human being.

 

[Goon]

And also, if you think the level of service you receive at a $100 a plate restaurant is the same at an applebees (or for that matter, the quality of server working there), you are crazy.

But I've seen the type...they come in, want to hear you recite the 5 specials by memory, ask for wine pairings with each plate, request special orders, demand this or that, and then balk when someone points out that it might be insulting to treat that guy the same as the guy who punched a button on a computer at applebees and brought you a burger.

Sure thing. LMAO.

 

[Goon]

The restaurant I worked at was near a few churches and I had to work lunch on Sunday. The church people were the worst. They would leave notes like "God bless!! We give 10% to god so we think you should get 5%". It stinks working a 6 hr shift and only going home with $50.

We used to have a phrase for that..."give your money to god, and your change to the waiters."

My favorite was when I got a MILLION DOLLAR BILL with some quote about how they "realllly wanted" to tip, but felt it more important that I receive the "good word," as that is more valuable than any amount.

Which is funny, after I spent an hour running around filling your demands, only to have you eat the whole meal and tell me on your last bite you hated it and demand it be comped. But yeah, thanks for the fake money...I'm sure my landlord will be as happy as I am to receive it when I give it to him for rent that month.

 

[TwoMisfits]

If you continue to frequent that establishment and tip similarly, don't be surprised if your service eventually starts to become the "bare minimum" and if your wait time starts to increase...it seems that one poster in the industry would already make you the "rookie" table. I mean, you can do it and you can feel good about it, but it may become a self-fulfilling prophecy (you wonder why the restaurants you frequent always only give okay service when you hear stories of other people getting servers to go above and beyond)...

If I was a "regular" at a restaurant, I would never tip as low as some posters and expect to be welcomed back. Of the 3x I did not tip in my life, I have never been back to any of those establishments (and I've let others know to stay away). Of the other 5-10 times I've been 10% or under, I have also not returned. 15% minimum implies a desire to return since the waitstaff won't peg you as "that" customer...

 

[MKMomma]

Not really but when people think it's ok to shortchange wait staff I take it personally. I had to do that when I was out of work and was good at it but every so often I had those tables that was ok with leaving a tip. The restaurant I worked at was near a few churches and I had to work lunch on Sunday. The church people were the worst. They would leave notes like "God bless!! We give 10% to god so we think you should get 5%". It stinks working a 6 hr shift and only going home with $50.

How much do you think people that make minimum wage make after working a 6 hour shift? You still made more than minimum wage on that 6 hour shift.

 

[kamik86]

And also, if you think the level of service you receive at a $100 a plate restaurant is the same at an applebees (or for that matter, the quality of server working there), you are crazy.

But I've seen the type...they come in, want to hear you recite the 5 specials by memory, ask for wine pairings with each plate, request special orders, demand this or that, and then balk when someone points out that it might be insulting to treat that guy the same as the guy who punched a button on a computer at applebees and brought you a burger.

Sure thing. LMAO.

Those that say that the cost of food being part of the calculation do have someone of a point though. Not so much when talking between different restaurants (because your right more expensive nice places generally have better service... if for no other reason they get the better servers because they get more TIPS) but in the price of one place that has a wider variety on the menu. One place I go to frequently has $30 steak and expensive seafood meals but also a number of relatively inexpensive meals that are smaller or just have cheaper items. Some of these are only $13-15.

It does to me seem like a somewhat messed up system that the $30 meal requires me to pay a higher tip then if I ordered the $14 and the $7 appetizer both.

In the first situation they brought one plate and I had only one course so I probably took their table for less time and had to tip $6 (using 20% as it is easier for math). If I ordered the cheaper meal and app I took up the table for two courses, they had to make extra trips and yet only would get $4 (since I would round to the nearest dollar).

Being the same place I imagine the service would be the same either way.

However I understand why its like this... I mean its easier as society to have a standard and a percentage of the bill makes for an easy way to have the amount be higher when more people, more food, and more expensive nicer places are involved.... but it would suck for the server if all her tables were getting the cheaper end meals that night



Side note: if at $100 a plate I ever got the level of service I expect at applebees I would be complaining to the manager and probably not leaving a tip at all. Frankly the applebees in my area barely has better service then McDonalds.

 

[Goon]

Those that say that the cost of food being part of the calculation do have someone of a point though. Not so much when talking between different restaurants (because your right more expensive nice places generally have better service... if for no other reason they get the better servers because they get more TIPS) but in the price of one place that has a wider variety on the menu. One place I go to frequently has $30 steak and expensive seafood meals but also a number of relatively inexpensive meals that are smaller or just have cheaper items. Some of these are only $13-15.

It does to me seem like a somewhat messed up system that the $30 meal requires me to pay a higher tip then if I ordered the $14 and the $7 appetizer both.

In the first situation they brought one plate and I had only one course so I probably took their table for less time and had to tip $6 (using 20% as it is easier for math). If I ordered the cheaper meal and app I took up the table for two courses, they had to make extra trips and yet only would get $4 (since I would round to the nearest dollar).

Being the same place I imagine the service would be the same either way.

However I understand why its like this... I mean its easier as society to have a standard and a percentage of the bill makes for an easy way to have the amount be higher when more people, more food, and more expensive nicer places are involved.... but it would suck for the server if all her tables were getting the cheaper end meals that night

I was probably a bit too harsh with this point. My formative years as a server/bartender came out when I read some of the "logic" I referred to.

I can see your point; some places are more expensive and really require no additional level of service. But to me I feel like being from the service industry, I would rather someone expecting to save $$ to patronize a lower priced restaurant, instead of taking up one of my tables, and expecting to tip like they're at Chili's.

But different strokes, and all that.

And, to pile on to a point made above...you'd better believe servers, hostesses, bartenders and even managers know the "I only tip 2.50 per head, regardless of service level" tables. Everyone dreads waiting on them, leading many to always wonder "why" they receive terrible service at said restaurant.

Side note: if at $100 a plate I ever got the level of service I expect at applebees I would be complaining to the manager and probably not leaving a tip at all. Frankly the applebees in my area barely has better service then McDonalds.

Great point. And as a former bar manager in that type of establishment, you can be sure that not only would you not pay for anything, you would also protect any future disappointment from other customers by ensuring that staff member is reprimanded/fired.

I think the most salient point to be made is this...never mess with someone who makes/handles your food. Take it from someone who knows...

 

[Colleen27]

Not really but when people think it's ok to shortchange wait staff I take it personally. I had to do that when I was out of work and was good at it but every so often I had those tables that was ok with leaving a tip. The restaurant I worked at was near a few churches and I had to work lunch on Sunday. The church people were the worst. They would leave notes like "God bless!! We give 10% to god so we think you should get 5%". It stinks working a 6 hr shift and only going home with $50.

No doubt. But why is that the customer's problem when it pertains to wait staff but not when it comes to every other low-wage worker they come into contact with day after day? That's my issue with the tipping system - wages shouldn't be up to the customer to set, nor to directly provide. And some of the attitudes on this thread are stellar examples of why. The server is at the mercy of customers' moods and means, weather, time of day, and all sorts of other variables to determine what she'll make. The only one that wins is management, who doesn't have to deal with demands for wage increases and gets highly motivated servers for next to nothing.

 

[smadath]

Not really but when people think it's ok to shortchange wait staff I take it personally. I had to do that when I was out of work and was good at it but every so often I had those tables that was ok with leaving a tip. The restaurant I worked at was near a few churches and I had to work lunch on Sunday. The church people were the worst. They would leave notes like "God bless!! We give 10% to god so we think you should get 5%". It stinks working a 6 hr shift and only going home with $50.

Seriously? That is pretty obnoxious. If someone wants to leave a 5% tip, go for it, but don't try to justify it with a stupid note like that. I'm guessing God would be ok with getting a smaller "tip" than the wait staff. (presumptuous, to be sure, but I'd bet I'm right!)

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

How much do you think people that make minimum wage make after working a 6 hour shift? You still made more than minimum wage on that 6 hour shift.

Why does this minimum wage argument keep coming up? Servers are typically not your 16-17 kids working their first job at McDonalds. The work is harder than that, and they deserve more than minimum wage.

 

[MKMomma]

Why does this minimum wage argument keep coming up? Servers are typically not your 16-17 kids working their first job at McDonalds. The work is harder than that, and they deserve more than minimum wage.

You think only 16-17 year old kids are earning minimum wage? There is the flaw in your argument.

 

[mistysue]

Why does this minimum wage argument keep coming up? Servers are typically not your 16-17 kids working their first job at McDonalds. The work is harder than that, and they deserve more than minimum wage.

I think the bottom line issue is that based on 15-25% servers expect to make more than MOST professionals with high level degrees and full time positions. It feels ridiculous to go to a buffet, have somebody clear the table and bring a round of drinks (lets be generous and say I takes 10 minutes of their time) then leave them $30 because it was 5 adults... If the average family income suggests the wage earner might be making near $20/hour- why is it cheap to tip somebody multiples of what you make in an hour for 10 minutes of their time? ($30/10 minutes would be 9 times that average wage earner's hourly income!) This is not an "easy" job, but it is also not highly skilled or one for which able people are not readily available. Most jobs are not easy. The system simply makes no sense.

Even going to a low end place, if my family of 5 spends $25 and our server goes through 6 tables an hour, 20% suggests that person is making $30/hour. Again, that is a crazy high amount for somebody everybody is crying out to have sympathy for because they are paid so low. There is not public outcry to pay your cashier for their 5 minutes but they make less than a server does. If a server is going through 6 tables an hour, it should be publicly acceptable for each table to leave $2-3 per hour they are there. Maybe above 5 or 6 should be considered 2 tables. Then the person is above a living wage ($12-$18 +state minimum) without customers having this stupid guilt. I'm sorry but I refuse to feel sorry for somebody who is making $15/hour for unskilled work and wants more because "your cheap if you don't hand me all your money." Stupidest excuse for a raise ever.