Will expected tip amounts ever get this high?

[TwoMisfits]

First, this is not about Disney buffets. If you are at a buffet, you can tip a smaller percentage (10-15%) vs a regular sit down (15-20%). I don't, since my family is a lot of work (even at a buffet), but it is in the norm of expectations. It's kinda outside the topic of the current conversation.

Second, servers do not have every hour at "top rate" - there is almost always a "rush" and a "lull" in their service. Thus, if they make $30/hour for the 2 hours of dinner, they likely make much less than that on the off-hours of their shift (and the non-Fri/Sat)...and they have to average everything out. Do those servers at $100/plate places make a good, middle class living - yes, they likely do. But no one starting out ever gets hired there - you have to prove yourself. And, even after being hired there, you are given the less desirable days/hours until you have shown you are the best at what you do. People pay top dollar for the best in the industry and they always do in all industries, even "non-skilled" ones (have you heard that Princess Kate's nanny was making a low wage - no, b/c Kate needs the best and the most discrete and pays top dollar for it)...

Third, why do we pick on wait staff and say we shouldn't tip them at the societal norm and not hairdressers or masseuses or others? What if my haircut only took 20 minutes? Why should I reward them the same as someone who took 45 minutes, but had the same service? Because it's the right thing to do. The service (be it giving you a nice meal or a nice cut or a nice massage) was given and the societal norm is that you pay appropriately for the service. As someone else mentioned, if you don't want to pay the societal norm to be waited on, don't be waited on and get takeout or go to those places that forbid tips (like Noodles and Company). There are options if you don't like the norm...and they don't require one to rationalize ignoring the societal norm for their own personal benefit.

 

[Disneyliscious]

And also, if you think the level of service you receive at a $100 a plate restaurant is the same at an applebees (or for that matter, the quality of server working there), you are crazy.

I have never eat at a $100 a plate in my life and never will.

If you continue to frequent that establishment and tip similarly, don't be surprised if your service eventually starts to become the "bare minimum" and if your wait time starts to increase

It was my first (and last) time there and its a local restaurant to me. We only went because a friend was in from out of town and wanted to try some place different. Food was good but no way in hell Im paying $91 again for the food we got there. I could get the same at an O'Charleys for $50.

"I only tip 2.50 per head, regardless of service level" tables.

Who said that?

I think the most salient point to be made is this...never mess with someone who makes/handles your food. Take it from someone who knows...

Bravo? I guess? Do you spit in peoples food or burn it a little? Use dirty hands? What was your point with that comment? Its that "you tip me or else" attitude that lands you those $2.50 a head tips in the first place.

As someone else mentioned, if you don't want to pay the societal norm to be waited on, don't be waited on and get takeout or go to those places that forbid tips (like Noodles and Company).

What is the social norm? I don't see it. Quite a bit of fluctuation here on whats considered the "norm" and that tells me there is no "social norm". Whats normal to me may not be normal to you and vice versa. I'm not going to let some other group of people decide whats normal for me. Maybe you like to be led around by social norms but I do not and will not.

 

[Goon]

I have never eat at a $100 a plate in my life and never will.



It was my first (and last) time there and its a local restaurant to me. We only went because a friend was in from out of town and wanted to try some place different. Food was good but no way in hell Im paying $91 again for the food we got there. I could get the same at an O'Charleys for $50.



Who said that?



Bravo? I guess? Do you spit in peoples food or burn it a little? Use dirty hands? What was your point with that comment? Its that "you tip me or else" attitude that lands you those $2.50 a head tips in the first place.



What is the social norm? I don't see it. Quite a bit of fluctuation here on whats considered the "norm" and that tells me there is no "social norm". Whats normal to me may not be normal to you and vice versa. I'm not going to let some other group of people decide whats normal for me. Maybe you like to be led around by social norms but I do not and will not.

Keep on keepin' on, I guess. Don't let the pull of being a decent human being get in your way of demading the use of a service without paying the appropriate rate for it.

But I really shouldn't be too harsh on you...after all its the existence of people like you that ensured I would finish school and get the heck out of the service industry. I guess I have your demand to be insultingly cheap to thank in a way for all my success.

 

[Disneyliscious]

Don't let the pull of being a decent human being get in your way of demading the use of a service without paying the appropriate rate for it.

With all your success, could you be so kind as to point me in the direction where I can find a posted rate for demanding the use of a service? I sure want to pay the appropriate rate but gosh darnit I've just not had any luck finding a posted appropriate value for service at a restaurants I eat at except for the stated food prices on the menu itself. Keep in mind, just because Jim Bob Hojackson says I should tip 20% doesn't mean I should. That means that is -his- opinion that I should. I'm looking for a national or state level posting that says I must pay a certain value for such services. I'll look forward to your education level and success, which I obviously don't have since ones intellect is tied to their tipping amount, helping me become a better person. Gosh Im glad we met!!!

 

[mistysue]

Third, why do we pick on wait staff and say we shouldn't tip them at the societal norm and not hairdressers or masseuses or others? What if my haircut only took 20 minutes? Why should I reward them the same as someone who took 45 minutes, but had the same service? Because it's the right thing to do. The service (be it giving you a nice meal or a nice cut or a nice massage) was given and the societal norm is that you pay appropriately for the service. As someone else mentioned, if you don't want to pay the societal norm to be waited on, don't be waited on and get takeout or go to those places that forbid tips (like Noodles and Company). There are options if you don't like the norm...and they don't require one to rationalize ignoring the societal norm for their own personal benefit.

People do pick on those other professions. At the same time, it's a different argument with a person spending 100% of their attention on you. Occupying a table for an hour means you might take 10 minutes of a person's time. Then you get your hair cut and spend 30 minutes there. Most people leave a stylist $5-10. Dining groups tend to leave $5-10. The stylist actually had to go to trade skill to leave their skill, and they are turning over fewer customers in the same time. It's a completely different discussion. The average stylist makes less than servers do. It is the reason most of the profession turns over every couple years because nobody honestly tells you that you are entering a profession where most of your coworkers will be on gov. assistance.

This also has nothing to do with "rationalizing ignoring the societal norm for... personal benefit." The societal norm keeps changing, at the manipulation of the industry for THEIR own benefit. Pot or kettle?

 

[Goon]

With all your success, could you be so kind as to point me in the direction where I can find a posted rate for demanding the use of a service? I sure want to pay the appropriate rate but gosh darnit I've just not had any luck finding a posted appropriate value for service at a restaurants I eat at except for the stated food prices on the menu itself. Keep in mind, just because Jim Bob Hojackson says I should tip 20% doesn't mean I should. That means that is -his- opinion that I should. I'm looking for a national or state level posting that says I must pay a certain value for such services. I'll look forward to your education level and success, which I obviously don't have since ones intellect is tied to their tipping amount, helping me become a better person. Gosh Im glad we met!!!

Never said I was better than you.

Never said intellect is tied to tipping a certain amount.

You obviously have some issues...I'll leave you to your delusions then. Have a nice evening.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Since someone wanted a norm, who can dispute Ivy League scientific study of the norm? If you want the studied and verified "norm" for tipping, it seems in 2003, it was 17.56% of the bill.

http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1126&context=articles

But really, I think Ms. Manners would have been just as good a source...

 

[Disneyliscious]

Since someone wanted a norm, who can dispute Ivy League scientific study of the norm? If you want the studied and verified "norm" for tipping, it seems in 2003, it was 17.56% of the bill.

http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1126&context=articles

But really, I think Ms. Manners would have been just as good a source...

Thats pretty interesting. In section II. Norms and Economic Behavior it describes external and internal norms. It went on to say tipping is most often affected by internal norms. Meaning that just because society (external) deems an amount as "normal" does not mean it is "normal" to you (internal norms). So the study absolutely confirms that whats normal to one person isn't normal to another. Neither party is "wrong" because whats "normal" is a personal decision Thank you for posting that.

 

[Dizlvr]

We used to have a phrase for that..."give your money to god, and your change to the waiters."

My favorite was when I got a MILLION DOLLAR BILL with some quote about how they "realllly wanted" to tip, but felt it more important that I receive the "good word," as that is more valuable than any amount.

Which is funny, after I spent an hour running around filling your demands, only to have you eat the whole meal and tell me on your last bite you hated it and demand it be comped. But yeah, thanks for the fake money...I'm sure my landlord will be as happy as I am to receive it when I give it to him for rent that month.

Paying your rent is your problem, not your customers. Maybe your attitude problem came out in your service and that is why you got the tip you did. Server's rarely see why they don't deserve a tip, they feel its expected no matter what. Well some people don't feel that way, and that is their right.

 

[Colleen27]

Why does this minimum wage argument keep coming up? Servers are typically not your 16-17 kids working their first job at McDonalds. The work is harder than that, and they deserve more than minimum wage.

The people working at my McDonald's aren't your typical 16-17 year old kids working their first job either. Neither is the man who helped me find the part I needed at the auto parts store yesterday, or the one who loaded my mom's new screen door into her car at Lowes, or the guy who cuts my neighbor's lawn, or the woman who cleans my kids' school. But they're all making $8/hr (or less) and none of those jobs is a walk in the park. I've waited tables, I've served drinks, and I've worked retail. They're all miserable jobs that keep you on your feet for hours on end, but when I was working retail I couldn't just put out a tip jar to make up for the fact that I couldn't make ends meet on my hourly wage.

Employers should compensate employees, period. Not the customer. Tipping should be an expression of gratitude for exceptional service, not an expected or demanded service charge.

 

[smadath]

Never said I was better than you.

It sure sounded like you did. But maybe I just couldn't hear you very well from all the way up there on your high horse.

 

[Goon]

Paying your rent is your problem, not your customers. Maybe your attitude problem came out in your service and that is why you got the tip you did. Server's rarely see why they don't deserve a tip, they feel its expected no matter what. Well some people don't feel that way, and that is their right.

Kindly re-read what I said. It was a response to the idea that church goers would intentionally leave pretend money as a way to minister to waitstaff, and the arrogance at the idea that someone wants to hear about the "good news" from a cheapskate who (in my specific example) was an overall horrible person to the service staff and their fellow table mates. That person (much like many of you here, it seems) had no intention on leaving anything over the price of their food, regardless of the excellent service they were provided. And in fact, once their fellow table mates saw what occurred, I was tipped exponentially over what would have been customary...but that's neither here nor there.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about people in the service industry coming from those of you who are (shockingly) pathetically cheap and looking for any reason to pay as little as possible. It may come as a surprise to you, but no one believes it is your job to pay a waiter's rent; rather they engage in the rat race that is waiting tables in the hope that, if they provide good service, you will have the decency to reward this service with a gratuity.

You all just seem to have a hard time accepting that, much like the guy who sends back a plate with one bite left hoping to get a free meal, you are considered a pariah for your "right" to benefit from the experience of being waited on without paying an acceptable rate for the luxury.

LOL about being on a high horse. As anyone here who has waited tables can tell you, working in the service industry amid entitled adult babies who come in expecting to be kings/queens for their 40 minute meal, only to complain about the prices and leave an insulting tip will humble you more than you'll ever know. In fact, I place a lot of stock in the belief that the service industry drove me to the success I enjoy today.

I can engage in endless analogies to drive the point home, but really that's just a waste of time; you have your opinion, I have mine. It's just a shame that occasionally a good server has to suffer for yours. But hey, I'm glad to go the extra mile and tip 20-25% on meals to make up for the cruddy tippers.

 

[okeydokey]

The people working at my McDonald's aren't your typical 16-17 year old kids working their first job either. Neither is the man who helped me find the part I needed at the auto parts store yesterday, or the one who loaded my mom's new screen door into her car at Lowes, or the guy who cuts my neighbor's lawn, or the woman who cleans my kids' school. But they're all making $8/hr (or less) and none of those jobs is a walk in the park. I've waited tables, I've served drinks, and I've worked retail. They're all miserable jobs that keep you on your feet for hours on end, but when I was working retail I couldn't just put out a tip jar to make up for the fact that I couldn't make ends meet on my hourly wage.

Employers should compensate employees, period. Not the customer. Tipping should be an expression of gratitude for exceptional service, not an expected or demanded service charge.

What should be the case is not the argument here. For the time being, wait staff salary is passed on to diners and diners KNOW this when dining out. Diners can then decide if they will be cheap and shameful, or nice.

 

[Claire&TheBoys]

I got paid every 2 weeks and received a paycheck of around $80 (was paid $2.13/hr plus tips). While thats not a lot of money in itself, it was never $0. Saying things like that, in an effort to guilt trip others, doesn't work.

My husband was a server at a mid-level chain steakhouse in college and shortly after we married. I assure you that most of his paychecks were for $0. Every bit of the $2.13 he was paid in wages was taken up by Social Security/Medicare and federal income tax. He was required to report at least 8% of his sales every night as tip income and tip out to tip-share for bus-boys and bartenders. He usually reported his tips accurately, even above the 8% requirement, because his employer gave full-time staff a week of paid vacation every year and the amount you got for vacation was based on your average income (wages and tips) over the last several months.

We always tip in the 18% range - a little more if the server was really good and a little less if our drinks didn't get refilled in a timely manner. We just got back from a week's vacation in Washington, DC, and our average table-service meal for the 4 of us was $50-55, and we usually tipped $10 or so.

 

[tasha99]

I tip 15 %, but live in a state where servers get minimum wage to start (no special wait person wages on the west coast). Had the best waitress ever 2 nights ago and tipped 35%--she was just amazing and I felt like letting her know it.

 

[averysmom]

There is no tiered wage here (Manitoba, Canada), so tipped staff make the same minimum wage ($10.50/hr), as everyone else. Most ppl here "tip the tax"- 13%. When we're visiting in the US, we always have to remember that we have to tip more, so we don't look like "cheap foreigners".

 

[mondragon]

There is no tiered wage here (Manitoba, Canada), so tipped staff make the same minimum wage ($10.50/hr), as everyone else. Most ppl here "tip the tax"- 13%. When we're visiting in the US, we always have to remember that we have to tip more, so we don't look like "cheap foreigners".

You are one of the rare Canadians that actually tips. I used to hate waiting on Canadians since most of the time it was a 5% tip.

 

[tasha99]

There is no tiered wage here (Manitoba, Canada), so tipped staff make the same minimum wage ($10.50/hr), as everyone else. Most ppl here "tip the tax"- 13%. When we're visiting in the US, we always have to remember that we have to tip more, so we don't look like "cheap foreigners".

Alaska, Washington, Oregon, and California don't have tiered wages either. I'm sure there are other states as well, but the west coast in general doesn't have them.

 

[mombrontrent]

You are one of the rare Canadians that actually tips. I used to hate waiting on Canadians since most of the time it was a 5% tip.

I have a hard time believing that. I live in Ontario where minimum wage is $11.25/hr and servers wage is $9.80/hr. We generally tip 15% which I think is pretty standard here. When we travel to the U.S. we bump it up a little bit to the 18% range.

 

[maxiesmom]

First, this is not about Disney buffets. If you are at a buffet, you can tip a smaller percentage (10-15%) vs a regular sit down (15-20%). I don't, since my family is a lot of work (even at a buffet), but it is in the norm of expectations. It's kinda outside the topic of the current conversation.

I don't agree that it is ok to tip less at a buffet. My family is like yours, the server does a of running taking away empty plates and refilling water and drink. And I think that is true of a lot of families.