Will Corona Virus Force Lifting of Resale Restrictions at Riviera?

[ChipNdale8887]

And I think they will offer an incentive much more than $15/point before lifting!

As I said, if we see resale prices drop...and market has slowed based on my current resale situation..Disney can point it out as not to be counted. They can also lower the interest rate to make buying very attractive. Through in some park passes too

Lots to do and lots of options.

I agree! Incentives before were binging the price for points around $170-180 per point. I think now we might see 150-160 per point. I'm in for more points at $150 honestly. Sign me up!

 

[ELMC]

And I think they will offer an incentive much more than $15/point before lifting!

As I said, if we see resale prices drop...and market has slowed based on my current resale situation..Disney can point it out as not to be counted. They can also lower the interest rate to make buying very attractive. Through in some park passes too

Lots to do and lots of options.

I agree! Incentives before were binging the price for points around $170-180 per point. I think now we might see 150-160 per point. I'm in for more points at $150 honestly. Sign me up!

I agree with both points, but I also think we need to be careful about the types of cash discounts we should expect to see. Disney has put into place a long term strategy where they have escalated prices. Remember when everyone was up in arms when BLT increased to $135 a point? It's taken some time and some pain, and it would be a huge step backwards for them to give that up. I think that while we may see an effective price of $140-160 per point, it will never be advertised as such or even all that easy to do the math (as in they won't simply say "get $30 off per point). They can imbed some significant discounts in the form of park passes, bonus points, and current stay reimbursements without ever giving up the ground they have fought so hard to win on pricing.

 

[jarestel]

Anecdotally at least, most folks who post about not purchasing Riviera on these boards don't say they would buy if not for those pesky restrictions.

Instead we hear stuff like "not impressive", "don't like the color of this or that", "not Disney enough", "don't like the lobby", "don't like the restaurants", "don't like the skyliner", "too expensive", "too many points per night", "don't like the pools", "can't walk to parks", and "can see Carribean Beach Resort from Riviera".

Lifting the restrictions changes none of the above so, anecdotally at least, would do practically nothing for sales. As others have said, I'm also inclined to think DVD will offer a few more incentives and membership extras in order to gin up business rather than backtrack on the restrictions.

 

[Sandisw]

Just thought of a new aspect...if they reverse RiV, and don’t reverse L14 resale restrictions in booking at RIV...it’s going to cause a lot of rift for them as well,

For sales, reversing that one would do nothing buy make resale even more popular.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Anecdotally at least, most folks who post about not purchasing Riviera on these boards don't say they would buy if not for those pesky restrictions.

Instead we hear stuff like "not impressive", "don't like the color of this or that", "not Disney enough", "don't like the lobby", "don't like the restaurants", "don't like the skyliner", "too expensive", "too many points per night", "don't like the pools", "can't walk to parks", and "can see Carribean Beach Resort from Riviera".

Lifting the restrictions changes none of the above so, anecdotally at least, would do practically nothing for sales. As others have said, I'm also inclined to think DVD will offer a few more incentives and membership extras in order to gin up business rather than backtrack on the restrictions.

Really? That's not been my impression. There's been a lot of posts where Riviera was not an option because of the restrictions. Every resort has had people deciding not to purchase because they didn't care for it or any of the other things you outline.but of course no other has been removed as an option because of restrictions.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

Really? That's not been my impression. There's been a lot of posts where Riviera was not an option because of the restrictions. Every resort has had people deciding not to purchase because they didn't care for it or any of the other things you outline.but of course no other has been removed as an option because of restrictions.

I'd say its at least 50-50 on the restrictions and the actual resort for not buying. Wakey's thread is full of people that do not actually like the resort because of the theming and size amenities. Which there's nothing wrong with that, Everyone has resorts they love and don't love. I don't care at all for the VGF or OKW. Nothing wrong with those that love it. Its everyone's taste.

 

[Brian Noble]

Anecdotally at least, most folks who post about not purchasing Riviera on these boards don't say they would buy if not for those pesky restrictions.

Whenever we get a paper rejected, my students start poring over the reviews to figure out what, specifically to fix. I usually have to tell them to back off that a little bit. Yes, those comments matter. But they are not why the paper was rejected.

The paper was rejected because the reviewers: "Just weren't that into it." Once a reviewer decides that---and they usually decide by the bottom of the first page---the rest of the review is an exercise in revisionist history.

I suspect the same is true of at least some timeshare purchase decisions, even with an audience that understands the product the way a typical DISer does. It's primarily a gut feeling, and after that it's about finding the reasons to justify your gut.

 

[Aussie RJ]

Really? That's not been my impression. There's been a lot of posts where Riviera was not an option because of the restrictions. Every resort has had people deciding not to purchase because they didn't care for it or any of the other things you outline.but of course no other has been removed as an option because of restrictions.

I am only a single sample, but I had $50k ready to purchase. But as an international buyer, the restrictions just don’t work for me. I Spent the $50k on resale to add to a previous direct purchase.

 

[Crispity]

We haven't bought into DVC yet, but we visit at least once a year. For the last three years, we have paid cash through Disney for a 1 bedroom villa for our 8-10 day stays (BLT twice, BWV once), so I have definitely been looking into buying.

We have looked at Riviera, and as someone who does not currently own DVC, I can say that the resale restrictions don't enter into my calculations at all. I'm not buying a depreciating asset (which this very much is, even though DVC has retained a much larger percentage of its value than other timeshares) with the intention of selling. I'm buying it to use it, and the value is in the vacations we will take, which are definitely not investments! I'm only buying if I can afford to lose it entirely.

What would make a significant difference to me is a drastic reduction in the per point cost. At the moment, for the number of Riviera points I would need, I calculate that it would take 12 years of booking 1 bdr villas direct through Disney before I come out ahead with DVC. An upfront cost of ~$60,000 to start saving money 12 years from now is not at all attractive. I'm much better off investing the $60,000 and continuing to book with cash. Bring that upfront price down significantly, and we'd reconsider.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

We haven't bought into DVC yet, but we visit at least once a year. For the last three years, we have paid cash through Disney for a 1 bedroom villa for our 8-10 day stays (BLT twice, BWV once), so I have definitely been looking into buying.

We have looked at Riviera, and as someone who does not currently own DVC, I can say that the resale restrictions don't enter into my calculations at all. I'm not buying a depreciating asset (which this very much is, even though DVC has retained a much larger percentage of its value than other timeshares) with the intention of selling. I'm buying it to use it, and the value is in the vacations we will take, which are definitely not investments! I'm only buying if I can afford to lose it entirely.

What would make a significant difference to me is a drastic reduction in the per point cost. At the moment, for the number of Riviera points I would need, I calculate that it would take 12 years of booking 1 bdr villas direct through Disney before I come out ahead with DVC. An upfront cost of ~$60,000 to start saving money 12 years from now is not at all attractive. I'm much better off investing the $60,000 and continuing to book with cash. Bring that upfront price down significantly, and we'd reconsider.

No disrespect, but you say these things now. Once your put in a situation where you have to sell or are voluntarily choosing to sell, you will be looking to get back as much of that $60,000 as possible. A few years ago the average time an owner kept their DVC purchase was around 10 years. I don’t know the current metrics but I would bet that timeframe has not increased. $60,000 for 10 years of DVC .......

 

[Crispity]

No disrespect, but you say these things now. Once your put in a situation where you have to sell or are voluntarily choosing to sell, you will be looking to get back as much of that $60,000 as possible. A few years ago the average time an owner kept their DVC purchase was around 10 years. I don’t know the current metrics but I would bet that timeframe has not increased. $60,000 for 10 years of DVC .......

I completely agree that if I were to sell, I'd absolutely want to get back as much money as I could - anyone would! As a buyer, I would definitely prefer that there not be any resale restrictions; however, the resale restrictions are not a deal breaker for me.

My decision not to purchase is based entirely on the outrageous direct prices and the high point charts to book. The high upfront cost becomes even more of a problem if I think I will sell, even if the resale restrictions are removed. If I expect to sell after 10 years like the average DVC owner, but it would take me 12 years of DVC ownership to start seeing a savings on my Disney trips, then it makes no sense to buy. I would never buy a timeshare (even a Disney timeshare!) with the assumption that it would increase in value, regardless of resale restrictions.

Everyone's situation is different; however, I suspect that price reductions and/or incentives would have a much greater overall impact on sales than the removal of resale restrictions.

 

[DVCsloth]

I don't see DVC lifting restrictions. I thought Riviera was priced decently with the incentives. I don't like the resale restrictions, but I do understand why they chose to do it. I added direct at CCV which I did feel was over priced but only added a small number of points for a 1 bedroom every other year. My first contract is GFV resale with a Blue card. I added direct because I didn't want to deal with any type of restrictions. I try not to look at my Disney vacations as always getting the best deal. I do feel that DVC gives me a pretty good value overall. I do think resale prices will drop quite a bit, but resale restrictions are here to stay. Just hoping that this ends soon without too much damage to Disney and all the people affected by this.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

We haven't bought into DVC yet, but we visit at least once a year. For the last three years, we have paid cash through Disney for a 1 bedroom villa for our 8-10 day stays (BLT twice, BWV once), so I have definitely been looking into buying.

We have looked at Riviera, and as someone who does not currently own DVC, I can say that the resale restrictions don't enter into my calculations at all. I'm not buying a depreciating asset (which this very much is, even though DVC has retained a much larger percentage of its value than other timeshares) with the intention of selling. I'm buying it to use it, and the value is in the vacations we will take, which are definitely not investments! I'm only buying if I can afford to lose it entirely.

What would make a significant difference to me is a drastic reduction in the per point cost. At the moment, for the number of Riviera points I would need, I calculate that it would take 12 years of booking 1 bdr villas direct through Disney before I come out ahead with DVC. An upfront cost of ~$60,000 to start saving money 12 years from now is not at all attractive. I'm much better off investing the $60,000 and continuing to book with cash. Bring that upfront price down significantly, and we'd reconsider.

And there is a place for a lower up front cost per point - resale market. SSR in particular but if it's a comparison to Riviera with it's high MF's then other resorts also kick in - AKV comes to mind and we're seeing a few mark downs at other resorts. You get the use of a room at a lower cost and there's already some depreciation built into the purchase.

 

[TheGecko]

It's not just DVC that is going to have a problem. It is going to be the theme parks as well until a vaccine is developed. People are not going to want to fly in planes and be packed into lines. Not to mention Disney's penchant in the past few years to drive up prices across the board many multiples of inflation. During a recession when money is tight and investments are down, people are not going to blow their money on a luxury vacation or purchase.

I still have a trip scheduled for the last week of June. I am hoping they are empty parks if we do go, but there is a great chance we are going to have to cancel. Such is life.

 

[jarestel]

No disrespect, but you say these things now. Once your put in a situation where you have to sell or are voluntarily choosing to sell, you will be looking to get back as much of that $60,000 as possible.

In this respect, I think we on these boards do potential purchasers a great disservice by posting all sorts of predictions and assumptions regarding the potential savings of DVC over "x" amount of years. If someone considering a DVC contract would have their finances negatively impacted by buying a contract, they should not but that contract.

I have always advised anyone considering a DVC purchase to assume the upfront cash is gone and to expect any resale value as a bonus. It may be an unpopular opinion, but like credit cards, DVC is an easy thing to get but because Disney is not a cheap vacation option, could prove quite difficult to maintain if folks get stars in their eyes about all of their potential "savings".

 

[Sandisw]

In this respect, I think we on these boards do potential purchasers a great disservice by posting all sorts of predictions and assumptions regarding the potential savings of DVC over "x" amount of years. If someone considering a DVC contract would have their finances negatively impacted by buying a contract, they should not but that contract.

I have always advised anyone considering a DVC purchase to assume the upfront cash is gone and to expect any resale value as a bonus. It may be an unpopular opinion, but like credit cards, DVC is an easy thing to get but because Disney is not a cheap vacation option, could prove quite difficult to maintain if folks get stars in their eyes about all of their potential "savings".

I agree with you and I recommend the same. I am having a hard time even getting offers on a contract I am selling which Is priced less than what I got for a similar contract 5 months ago...sold in a few days back then. You never know what will happen.

When I bought, I went in and figured a 50% loss immediately and figured if I had to sell before 5 years, DVC would have cost me more than had I just remained a cash guest,

I think resale restrictions mean more to current members who have a different product, than some, if not many, new buyers.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The “loss” years ago would not have been that much. Prices in the 90‘s and 2000’s were very reasonable.. losing 7,000, 8,000; even 13,000 as late as 2013 would have been a reasonable loss. The break even back then was 5-7 years. Most would have gotten all if not more of their initial investment back within a short period of time vacationing once a year. Not so much now......a $60,000 Loss within 10 years would be a hard pill to swallow. But YMMV.

 

[Sandisw]

The “loss” years ago would not have been that much. Prices in the 90‘s and 2000’s were very reasonable.. losing 7,000, 8,000; even 13,000 as late as 2013 would have been a reasonable loss. The break even back then was 5-7 years. Most would have gotten all if not more of their initial investment back within a short period of time vacationing once a year. Not so much now......a $60,000 Loss within 10 years would be a hard pill to swallow. But YMMV.

But I highly doubt RIV will be worth 0 so don’t think you’d lose it all, Members who own other points, would pick it up if it’s low enough.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

But I highly doubt RIV will be worth 0 so don’t think you’d lose it all, Members who own other points, would pick it up if it’s low enough.

Not according to poster Jarestel......

 

[Sandisw]

Not according to poster Jarestel......

That opinion is just as valid as mine and I think it will be worth more than 0 in 10 years.

Point is, if that is the resort someone wants to own, and go in with eyes wide open, then it’s the best decision for someone.