Wiccan...... Kinda long.

[raysnkaysmom]

Ok...first off...no bashing of my daughter, me or Wiccans..

I have honest concerns and questions I just want advice to. I never saw myself as close minded until this....

My DD who is almost 13 told me last week (after watching The Craft for the first time) that she wants to be Wiccan. Guess she went online and read about it for a couple hrs after the movie and decided it sounded 'cool'. She was at her dads house, and when I called to tell her gnite, she excitedly told me she decided to be Wiccan. My first reaction jumped and said "You aren't practicing witchcraft or worshipping the devil at my house"... She retorted with some smart comment and I said the regardless if it wasn't devil worship, I wasn't going to allow it.
Now, we've never really done the 'church thing' in our family because I never wanted to push something on her like I was pushed as a kid. And, her dad is agnostic, so he had no issues with her not attending church. I definitely believe in God and Jesus, and have spoken minimally to my kids about my beliefs (basic Chrisitian beliefs).
Well... later that evening I get the following email from my daughter :

Wicca isn't witchcraft or Devil worship.
It's more of an idea of oneness with nature.Instead of Gods being far away, they exist everywhere, all around you and they'd like to be your friend. There are spells and charms and things like that.... but there's nothing that is meant to cause harm. If you get into that, you're THEN dealing with witchcraft. Wiccan deals a lot more with your position in nature and such. I suggest looking things up online.....learning more about the religion.....many people mistake the Wiccan Religion for Witchcraft and Devil Worship....but they are WRONG...they need to research before being rude and insulting to the religion. It is about nothing but nature gods! NATURE...BEAUTY..LIFE..and spells that do only GOOD.....there IS NO "Devil" In the Wiccan Religion. If you love me you will give me a chance and respect my feelings.PLEASE! I love you.

So...I email her a short response something like she can't base her future beliefs on something she saw in a movie and heard of for the first time today...we'd talk later.
I text messaged her dad asking him if he supported this "Wiccan" interest and he said it was just a 12 yr old phase. But....he also then said my DD was right that I was being close minded and not listening her out before criticizing. I know he's right...but in my heart, it's not something I can support.

So, basically....this is my question/concern. I don't want to bash anyone who practices the Wiccan beliefs, because I don't know enough about it to do so. BUT.... I do want to see if I can find something that my daughter seems to be interested in as the alternative. She is talking about being one with nature... Nature, Beauty and Life. I hate the fact that I work alot and haven't got to spend as much time as I'd like lately with her as she starts that 'going into womanhood' aspect of her life. What things can we do or look into that she may be just as happy with? She's wanted to go to church with her friends before...I may start allowing that.... but...not even religion based am I steering towards... Maybe volunteering at a wildlife refuge? (There is actually one nearby). I just need some ideas and advice as to other things she might be interested in.

Thank you.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

If this is something she thinks she wants to do, I would have her sit down, fully research it (not just what little blurb she found on the internet) talk to people who practice it, etc. It sounds like she is doing this because of what she saw in the Craft, which is not an accurate portrayal at all. Make sure she knows that if she wants to do this, she has to do it right. At this age, it is natural to explore.

You might want to try taking her to a youth friendly church in your area and show her what some of her options are. If she wants to "be one with nature" talk about ways you can do more at home to conserve the natural environment, show her that you don't have to practice a religion to be eco-friendly. I think the idea of volunteering somewhere would be freat, the only concern is her age, I'm not sure how many places take girls that young. You might want to try with your local humane society.

 

[Cindyluwho]

Truly, I think your daughter just wants you to repect her voice, even if what she wants today changes tomorrow.
I would suggest you show some interest. Perhaps you could both sit down and read "The Mists of Avalon", each with your own copy and discuss the religous apect of the story.
Show some interest, share stories, perhaps you have a story of your own from when your were that age. And I don't mean, "Oh, I was young, naive and stupid once. You'll get over it" I mean share the dreams and hopes you had at that age.
Just listen!

 

[ksumn1]

I would just sit down and have an honest heart to heart talk with your DD Explain your beliefs and that you hoped that she believed as you do. But keep in mind that if she's really convinced she wants to be Wiccan there's not too much you can say about it. I mean you can ground her, keep a tight reign on her, only allow church activities but you can't change her heart or her mind if she's dead set on this. And if you push, you may make the whole Wicca thing MORE attractive to her. Although I think her Dad is right and this is a phase....next month she could decide to be Catholic or Baptist and then soon she's more worried about boys and the mall and the church issue becomes less and less of focus.

Just talk to her, listen to what appeals to her about the religion and try to show the parallels in the bible. Those of creation, kindness, wisdom not the brimstone and fire stuff. Maybe try to learn what Wiccas about if she agrees to go to church with you as well. Find a church with a good teen program, lots of young people, high energy, lots of music. Something she would enjoy so much that she might like to go back to week after week.

I had a friend who's Mom became a Wiccan in her 50's. She didn't do any rituals that I considered devil worshipping. She liked to meditate outside, take time to observe the animals, the beauty of nature. She liked to sunbathe nude and my BFF and I saw her dancing naked outside one night around midnight. Other than burning alot of candles and reading alot of Wiccan books I didn't see anything too crazy. Other than the fact that she liked to smoke a little "herbal" supplement that Mother nature provided, that is.

 

[pepperw23]

Since you asked advice, I will tell you my experiences.

I have a 17 year old daughter and I have found that teens go through a lot of "phases". She sounds like she is just curious about the world around her, religion and maybe even herself.

Another thing I figured out is my DD really needs to know that I understand her need to explore. I usually try to think of ways that we can do this together with me supervising the situation.

Why not go with her to the library and check out some books on Wicca and review them together, let her ask questions, you ask a few, and see if maybe you can let her explore in a controlled environment. Maybe as a bigger compromise you can also check out some books on your religion and explore the two together. Explain to her that you are willing to look in to the situation but she is to do no practicing until she can fully understand.

On a side note, what I have heard of Wicca, it does not involve devil worship. I am not an expert, but I believe it is all about harmony with earth. I'm sure God is okay with that.

 

[sdarwkcabemanmy]

If it were my daughter, I would sit down and discuss my personal beliefs about God (or whoever) with her and discuss why she feels like she needs to practice this new religion which you are not familiar or comfortable with.

Have her do research and maybe even talk to some local pagans/wiccans to find out what being a wiccan really means.

I understand what she's going through. I was brought up in a very strict Lutheran family and dragged kicking and screaming through Confirmation. Didn't want to do it because it didn't feel right to me. I was 14 and I had 'issues' with the Christian church. By the time I graduated HS, I was a non-practicing pagan. I still went to church (and still do on certain holidays) to pay lipservice and make my mother happy. But in my heart I am a pagan, even though I am a non-practicer.

*edited to add*

what I have heard of Wicca, it does not involve devil worship

No that would be Satanism, which is a different branch of paganism altogether. Think of paganism as a tree and there are branches spouting off of it. Wicca is one branch. Neo-paganism is another. Satanism (awful as it is) is yet another. They all have things in common, but they are also very different from one another as well.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

Thanks for the great advice and understanding!
I definitely have stepped back from my initial reaction. She tells me alot, and I dont' want that to ever stop, so I will try my best to not be critical. I believe its a phase (she is discovering her styles and such going into 7th grade), but I dont' want to blow it off either. So...I will definitely listen to her, and try to take a portion of what she likes about the wiccan beliefs and transpose it to a way I think she'll like as well (the nature route)

Thanks
Keep the advice coming!! A mom of a teen can never have enough!!!

 

[sdarwkcabemanmy]

I hope she finds what she is looking for.


Goddess bless.

 

[smartestnumber5]

Well you can't tell her what to believe. I don't mean that merely as a moral judgment, that you *shouldn't* tell her what to believe, but more importantly as a matter of fact.

If she believes in Wicca then IMO she's pretty much a Wiccan--maybe not a practicing one. (I also have little knowledge of Wicca--I don't know if there is any sort of conversion ritual the way that there is for Catholicism or Judaism?) The best thing you can do is let her figure this out for herself and do some research on the topic. That way you can give her your informed (but respectful) opinion about religious matters and explain why you don't believe Wicca.

I would think about your situation this way. What if a parent came on the DIS and said "I'm an atheist and my DD wants to be a Christian"--what can I do to distract her? What advice would you or other DISers offer? I suspect the resounding message would be, "What's so bad about being a Christian that you are trying to stop your DD from being one?"

Personally I became an atheist around age 14. I just stopped believing one day. I told my family I didn't believe any more and they sure didn't like it. My mother forced me to keep going to church with her for awhile. I just sat there and refused to kneel or take part in any of the prayers (which would have been lies if I'd said them) or get communion (which is what according to the church itself a non-Catholic or anyone with unconfessed sins is supposed to do!) or any of it. Well after a couple weeks of that she just gave up and was like "Fine, don't go to church." After that I heard a lot of "this is just a phase" or "one day something bad will happen and you'll need to believe to get you through." Well it's been 12 years--pretty much my entire adult life after reaching the age of reason and no sign of turning back.

It may end up being a whim or a phase (I'll admit, I don't think most people come to deep and lasting religious views about the world from a movie) or it may end up being the religion she has for the rest of her life. There's no way for you to know which and there's no way for you to stop it if it is what she wants/believes (and if it really is just a whim then resistance might just make her more dedicated to it than she'd otherwise be).

I think research is the best thing you and your DD can do. I admit I don't know much about Wicca, but I have seen some amazing misconceptions. My aunt was invited to a handfasting (Wiccan wedding) by a cousin-in-law. She didn't know anything about what a handfasting or Wicca was, but another relative called her up and said, "We can't go to this wedding. They are devil worshippers. They're going to do a sacrifice." This scared my aunt and she actually ended up talking to her priest about whether she was "allowed" to go to the wedding. He okayed it and actually cleared up some of her misconceptions about Wicca. (I'm not sure if the other relative actually went to the wedding.) Turns out the only "weird" thing at the wedding was that though it was completely formal attire, it was a pot-luck and there was no waitstaff, so everyone in their formal wedding gear had to serve and then clean up the food they had prepared.

 

[TheZue]

Ya it might be a phase, but she's old enough that it might not be. I've known a few wiccans and they were all great people You gotta think, they built stone henge! But if she's shopping for religions you could always get her to look at a few...and not just the "one god" ones either. Buddhism might interest her as well, and there will be less risk of her burning down your house with incense or candles Really, religion is so personal that it's going to come down to her choice in the end...but the more she's exposed to the more chance she'll find a good one and if you are involved the less chance she'll end up getting sucked into a cult as an adult.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

Well you can't tell her what to believe. I don't mean that merely as a moral judgment, that you *shouldn't* tell her what to believe, but more importantly as a matter of fact.

If she believes in Wicca then IMO she's pretty much a Wiccan--maybe not a practicing one. (I also have little knowledge of Wicca--I don't know if there is any sort of conversion ritual the way that there is for Catholicism or Judaism?)
I think research is the best thing you and your DD can do. I admit I don't know much about Wicca, but I have seen some amazing misconceptions. My aunt was invited to a handfasting (Wiccan wedding) by a cousin-in-law. She didn't know anything about what a handfasting or Wicca was, but another relative called her up and said, "We can't go to this wedding. They are devil worshippers. They're going to do a sacrifice." This scared my aunt and she actually ended up talking to her priest about whether she was "allowed" to go to the wedding. He okayed it and actually cleared up some of her misconceptions about Wicca. (I'm not sure if the other relative actually went to the wedding.) Turns out the only "weird" thing at the wedding was that though it was completely formal attire, it was a pot-luck and there was no waitstaff, so everyone in their formal wedding gear had to serve and then clean up the food they had prepared.

First...potluck sounds good to me Cheap AND good!!

And...I wouldn't go as far to say she IS Wiccan because she likes a movie and what she read in 2 hrs. She likes the beliefs she's learned so far. I'm not TELLING her what to believe... I'm telling her what *I* DON"T believe, and that I dont' think she knows enough about ANY of it to make a decision.
But...I will definitely be talking with her and seeing what we come up with. I'd never push her away for making a decision on what she TRULY believes in, but she needs to make an EDUCATED, RESEARCHED decision and prove in longevity its what she WANTS!!!
Until then... I'll try diversion
Blame me... it's ok.. She's 12.. and Mine

 

[zagafi]

Satanism is NOT a pagan religion. Satanism, like it or not, is an offshoot of Christianity. Since pagans do not worship the God of the Bible, they certainly wouldn't worship the devil from the same theology.

And, FWIW, there ARE Christian Wiccans. Wiccans can certainly worship God--and you'd be likely very surprised that Wiccan ritual is *very* much like liturgy in Christian churches. It's hardly "evil"--but it is very, very misunderstood.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

Ya it might be a phase, but she's old enough that it might not be. I've known a few wiccans and they were all great people You gotta think, they built stone henge! But if she's shopping for religions you could always get her to look at a few...and not just the "one god" ones either. Buddhism might interest her as well, and there will be less risk of her burning down your house with incense or candles Really, religion is so personal that it's going to come down to her choice in the end...but the more she's exposed to the more chance she'll find a good one and if you are involved the less chance she'll end up getting sucked into a cult as an adult.

I agree on both things...
I believe it's a phase (it wouldnt be the first, but definitely the first to get my attention this way)...
And..I also think I will allow her to go to church with her friends (different churches and such)... We (her parents) never wanted to force a decision on her, but she's obviously at the age where she wants something more, so I, as her parent, need to give her more options....

 

[momx2]

I guess my question is why not expose her to your beliefs. Exposure is not pushing something on her. I'll say up front that I am a Christian. I'm not radical or overbearing about it, but my girls have basically gone to church their whole lives, off and on. I have trouble with churchs in general because it always ends up being so snooty, IMO. I still believe as does my girls. I never pushed it, it just happened. It sounds to me as if she is looking for something to believe in and she hasn't had any ground work laid for her in her younger years. The searching will always find something, right or wrong. What's wrong with showing her Christianity?

 

[raysnkaysmom]

I guess my question is why not expose her to your beliefs. Exposure is not pushing something on her. I'll say up front that I am a Christian. I'm not radical or overbearing about it, but my girls have basically gone to church their whole lives, off and on. I have trouble with churchs in general because it always ends up being so snooty, IMO. I still believe as does my girls. I never pushed it, it just happened. It sounds to me as if she is looking for something to believe in and she hasn't had any ground work laid for her in her younger years. The searching will always find something, right or wrong. What's wrong with showing her Christianity?

I have to say I agree with you. What was always the issue as she was younger and never yearned for definition, was that her dad was agnostic and although I wasn't practicing, or hadn't been to church in over 10 yrs, I was raised Jehovahs Witness. (Yeah...I know..some people see that as a cult. That's why I said in the beginning...no bashing...just advice). I believe 99% of the beliefs I was raised with, but hated the force of having to follow thru (ie. giving up Xmas and such). But...I'm willing to expose her to other things. And, if she, after true learning...chose to be Wiccan....I'd have to be supportive of her decision, even if I didn't agree with her beliefs.
That's what moms do

 

[SplshMtn99]

Here's my thought. Since you've never done the church thing with her and her dad is agnostic, perhaps she's looking / searching / yearning for SOMETHING / SOMEWHERE and she latched onto the first one that came along that interested her.

At her age, perhaps she's starting to think about religion. Maybe briefly expose her to several so she can make a decision or choice. She can always change her mind again later. Nothing wrong with that. Being education & allowed to decide is better than being born into one & being told this is what you are. I wish I was allowed to decide. DH was.

I have to say, the hole nature thing with wiccan interests me too in a way but not enough to join. I have some American Indian in me and connect with my god in nature way more than I do in a building.

 

[pennst8r]

My old roommate became a Wiccan High Priestess. It's not devil worship. From what I've read, it's more about worshiping a goddess, nature..more of a Pagan belief. Casting spells is part of it, but they don't believe in casting "bad" spells. They believe any spell cast ( good or bad) will come back at them 3 fold.

I would do some research, as other posters have advised. Unless you live in Mass (as I used to!) she probably won't really have a coven to join.

 

[Buckalew11]

I think she is old enough to decide for herself. I agree with you that she should research a bit more about exactly what it is though. She sounds a bit mature for 12 so get used to this...she's probably a thinker and is definitely searching for more.
I think Wiccan sounds peaceful and loving. (The little I know of it anyway). I think the concept of all that part is very nice and nothing I disagree with (to my limited knowledge). I happen to believe in God the Creator of the nature and worship the One who made the nature and nature itself. If she ends up in a more mainstream type religion, maybe she could join the two in that way instead. But, what do I know?

 

[SplshMtn99]

Here's another sort of weird tangent. Know how 2008 is all about being green & saving planet & doing things with less chemicals and more natural.........

Well maybe she's really got that green thinking in her head & wicca /nature thing came along at just the time she was looking for religion.

i told you it was a weird thought. lol

 

[sha_lyn]

I "converted" to Wicca about 5 yrs ago. Born and raised Southern Baptist, but never felt right in any Christian church. i shopped around for a long time and finally gave up. i know i believed in a diety/deities but not in the all powerful vengeful jealous old testament God.

Through several little twists of faith I was invited to a ritual and haven't looked back since.

Sure it might just be a phase inspired by a movie, or she might be using the movie to break the ice on the subject with you. There are several good sites and books out there, and a lot of bad ones too.

IMHO, she is going to look into Wicca whether you like it or not. Wouldn't it be better if you were well informed and offered to help her instead only of trying to get her to look at other options?

There are some groups out there that claim to practice Wicca, but they are really very far from it. I know of at least one group in the Atlanta area claiming to be Wiccan, but it is a sex and drug cult. Nothing they "practice" even remotely resembles Wicca.

This is one of the best basic explanations of Wicca
http://www.ravenwoodchurch.org/beliefs.htm


There are several branches of Wicca. I practice with an eclectic independent coven.

Here are a few sites and books
http://www.witchvox.com/

The best book IMHO for a very simple into into Wicca
http://www.llewellyn.com/bookstore/book.php?pn=L118

Since she is really interested in the nature connection
http://www.llewellyn.com/bookstore/book.php?pn=J181

I will try to find my copy of recommend reading for beginners.