Why Would You Buy Direct Anymore?

[KAT4DISNEY]

I see all the hate on RIV here, and I just can’t see us not loving it!

It's not a hate for the resort itself but a hate for the direction DVC took Disney Vacation Club starting with that resort. Of course every resort has things the are liked or disliked but that's personal preference stuff. The changes to DVC are just sad though. And I think some of what they did is fairly questionable in the 7 month trading with the original 14 while restricting certain owners (new resale) from trading into it but it's not worth my while to hire a lawyer over it.

 

[davedray]

It's not a hate for the resort itself but a hate for the direction DVC took Disney Vacation Club starting with that resort. Of course every resort has things the are liked or disliked but that's personal preference stuff. The changes to DVC are just sad though. And I think some of what they did is fairly questionable in the 7 month trading with the original 14 while restricting certain owners (new resale) from trading into it but it's not worth my while to hire a lawyer over it.

I totally understand that. It is one of the drivers to me looking so strongly at AKL.

 

[Leight19]

I bought direct at akv earlier this year mainly for the AP discounts. Without these present, I see no driver to buy direct and have been strongly discouraging my parents who are looking to buy from going direct. Adding the resale restrictions with riviera just further encourages me to go for resale over direct to avoid approving the practice by “voting” with my dollars. I believe Disney has made a few steps that were shortsighted over past few years and I hope they get enough negative feedback to walk some back.

The resale restrictions were designed to undercut the resale market but to me it undercuts the direct market more. As others mentioned now when you buy resale you sell same product you buy but buying direct you immediately lose value as you sell with resale restrictions. Today it doesn’t seem to be a large delta with only one resort but over time if they push this practice with more resorts it will grow to where you lose large fraction of value soon as you buy direct. I think big impact will be if 2042 resorts switch over to resale restricions upon expiration as I don’t think Disney will have enough dvc builds on premium property to incentivize before then. Im hoping before then they realize the practice isnt good for business and walk back; I’m not up to speed with riviera selling patterns but I get impression it’s behind where they would like it to be based on some of the polling questions they had a few months back and some interactions I’ve had with dvc sales (I’ve been at wdw last two weeks and have been looking at tour rooms and every one heavily pushes riviera despite my clear interest in other resorts until I tell them I absolutely would never buy at riviera with resale restrictions).

 

[ChipNdale8887]

CCV is still in active sales and has incentives against it. 300 points now would be $185/point. Not as great as $163, but not $220. I bought during the summer incentives last year, and got CCV at $175/point, and RIV at effectively $148/point.

I know I just meant the base price is $220. I just meant in general the starting price is $220. How did you get RIV at $148 a point last summer? The Discount for 300 points for RIV was $12,000 off which would make it $155? Same for CCV 300 points with $12,000 off was $180 a point. Did you buy more than 300 points?

 

[ChipNdale8887]

The big problem with people thinking that they are getting something tangible by being able to stay at other resorts is they are actually costing themselves extra trips to Disney. Lets say you want 250 points at VGF. That $25,000 you save by buying resale will get you get you over 50 nights at Riviera on the cash side. Or, you can take that $25,000 and buy 200 resale points at Riviera.

You could play this game all day though. Why buy VGF when you could save a lot more money and just buy SSR points at $95-105 a point. If we go by this account then you should just save as much money as possible and stay at SSR and buy at SSR.

Also there's a Massive difference between paying $265 direct AT VGF when resale is $165 vs what I paid, $155 direct at RIV(resale $135) and $180 Direct at CCV(Resale $155). VGF is a $100 savings per point resale vs buying RIV and CCV with big direct incentives. I maybe paid a $20-25 premium per point direct vs the $100 premium direct at VGF. Thats much different.

It makes sense to buy direct when the incentives are good, in no way would I encourage buying VGF at $265 a point or or Poly at $245 a point. Especially 300 of those points when there are no incentives. That's insane. lol. But buying direct when incentives are good can make a lot of sense the margin between Direct and Resale is much smaller.

 

[sethschroeder]

Only problem is with this theory is DVC is forgetting about the 14 other properties available resale that don't have this restriction. lol. So it doesn't work that way.

Which slowly will work out if the system and have further crunch.

Brought it up a ton but tons of Park close points expire in 2042 and there isn't a single resort by Epcot open anymore to resale at that point to even get lucky to book or book a 1BR.

Disney is thinking and playing the long game. If you are older and won't be visiting Disney in 20 years sure buy lots of people buying direct are young families.

I rented points to stay at SSR but after reading the boards and everything else, I was convinced I was going to hate it. And I absolutely love it.

Have you stay elsewhere?

People like the rooms because they are being refurbed but I am not traveling to WDW to go to Disney Spring.

We just did an add on at RIV and own at BWV. It's just night and day needing to deal with busses vs just walking over to the park or catching the always moving skyliner.

In addition walking you are on and done with multiple rides in some cases it seems before they even let people in to the parking lot.

 

[sethschroeder]

AT VGF when resale is $165 vs what I paid, $155 direct at RIV(resale $135) and $180 Direct at CCV(Resale $155

100% a difference spot on

It's why I try to call out my price I paid. Each equation is different.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

Which slowly will work out if the system and have further crunch.

Brought it up a ton but tons of Park close points expire in 2042 and there isn't a single resort by Epcot open anymore to resale at that point to even get lucky to book or book a 1BR.

Disney is thinking and playing the long game. If you are older and won't be visiting Disney in 20 years sure buy lots of people buying direct are young families.

Still that's 21 years. So much can happen in that time span. Just look at all the new DVC hotels we have gotten in 21 years. And like so many say. Those in charge of DVC the managers, they don't even know if they will be here in 21 years, so that might be someone elses problem. Its just totally unpredictable to see what it will be like in 21 years. We might have a 5th park by then, skyliners everywhere, or we might have more pandemics.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

100% a difference spot on

It's why I try to call out my price I paid. Each equation is different.

Same. I would never pay direct at those prices. It doesn't start making sense unless its under $185 direct in my opinion. Where a $20-25 premium isn't bad over 30-50 years.

 

[Lorana]

I know I just meant the base price is $220. I just meant in general the starting price is $220. How did you get RIV at $148 a point last summer? The Discount for 300 points for RIV was $12,000 off which would make it $155? Same for CCV 300 points with $12,000 off was $180 a point. Did you buy more than 300 points?

I did. One advantage of spreading out payments over 90 days is that means your contracts don't close, and so we did actually decide to add on even more later (ie, we bought 2 FWs in late June, then decided to add RIV in August, then decided to add the 3rd FW in September, and because our contracts were still open and DVC allowed us to bundle them together under the incentives). We bought 3 Fixed Weeks (44,47,48) and a couple small point contracts at RIV. With RIV, I factored in the fact that I was going to buy those CCV anyway, and so calculated my "effective" rate at RIV by adding on (which pushed me into another incentive threshold).

 

[ChipNdale8887]

I did. One advantage of spreading out payments over 90 days is that means your contracts don't close, and so we did actually decide to add on even more later (ie, we bought 2 FWs in late June, then decided to add RIV in August, then decided to add the 3rd FW in September, and because our contracts were still open and DVC allowed us to bundle them together under the incentives). We bought 3 Fixed Weeks (44,47,48) and a couple small point contracts at RIV. With RIV, I factored in the fact that I was going to buy those CCV anyway, and so calculated my "effective" rate at RIV by adding on (which pushed me into another incentive threshold).

That's awesome! I kinda did the same thing in a sense. I dragged out my purchase that we originally started pre-pandemic. We originally started at 100 points then 125, then 150. Then I went back and forth on CCV or RIV(restrictions made me nervous). My goal was to get enough for 2 weeks in a studio in the summer months. So we planned buying half direct and half resale to get the Blue Card. I knew didn't want to ever buy RIV resale so I had to decide and it drove me mad for months. Then they closed. We also wanted long contracts as we are only 30. When DVC reopened and offered $12,000 off 300 points which brought us extremely close to how much it was going to cost for 150 points direct and 150 resale at a (poly, blt, ccv). Plus we got the semi Epcot resort at Riviera and our favorite at CCV and a MK Resort. So it all worked out great for us. We spend 3-5,000$ more than we were splitting it but the fact all of our points can be used at all new resorts and Riviera was a huge plus for us.

If you don't mind me asking how many points did you buy? and how much was your incentive? I never really thought to ask what the next tier was. 275-300 was our max points we wanted.

 

[Wedgeout]

I just did that today! Everyone has their own reasons and I enjoy reading all the membership paths taken. For me, it was my budgeting plan to start with resale. I went through a four month adventure last year, becoming a member with a 225 point, April UY, BCV contract (exp. 2042). Had a very nice phone contact today with no mentioning of buying direct at a different resort instead. Plus I now have a DVC guide! There was availability for a direct 125 point OKW contract (exp. 2057), matched it to my April UY. My membership account updated quickly with the white card switching to blue!

 

[ChipNdale8887]

I just did that today! Everyone has their own reasons and I enjoy reading all the membership paths taken. For me, it was my budgeting plan to start with resale. I went through a four month adventure last year, becoming a member with a 225 point, April UY, BCV contract (exp. 2042). Had a very nice phone contact today with no mentioning of buying direct at a different resort instead. Plus I now have a DVC guide! There was availability for a direct 125 point OKW contract (exp. 2057), matched it to my April UY. My membership account updated quickly with the white card switching to blue!

Congratulations!!

 

[Lorana]

That's awesome! I kinda did the same thing in a sense. I dragged out my purchase that we originally started pre-pandemic. We originally started at 100 points then 125, then 150. Then I went back and forth on CCV or RIV(restrictions made me nervous). My goal was to get enough for 2 weeks in a studio in the summer months. So we planned buying half direct and half resale to get the Blue Card. I knew didn't want to ever buy RIV resale so I had to decide and it drove me mad for months. Then they closed. We also wanted long contracts as we are only 30. When DVC reopened and offered $12,000 off 300 points which brought us extremely close to how much it was going to cost for 150 points direct and 150 resale at a (poly, blt, ccv). Plus we got the semi Epcot resort at Riviera and our favorite at CCV and a MK Resort. So it all worked out great for us. We spend 3-5,000$ more than we were splitting it but the fact all of our points can be used at all new resorts and Riviera was a huge plus for us.

If you don't mind me asking how many points did you buy? and how much was your incentive? I never really thought to ask what the next tier was. 275-300 was our max points we wanted.

We started off with 2 FWs (47 & 48, which is Thanksgiving most years and first week of Christmas holidays) at CCV for 118 points each in late June - so 236 points. This gave us $35 off per point, dropping from $220 to $185/point.

In August, we decided to add 2 65pt contracts at RIV, for 130pts, which would allow us to book a Standard Studio for 1 week in the fall. We also have 2 boys, so wanted the option to pass along full direct RIV points to them down the road, but also figured 2 small point contracts would retain better value if we ever needed to sell. This put us over 300 total points (366), which dropped us down to $40 off -- $180/point for CCV and $155/point for RIV.

But then we learned all about runDisney Fixed Weeks. My husband loves to run 5ks, and we both love Food & Wine Festival, and debated whether we should add on the week for those years we wanted to do the event or cancel out Thanksgiving Week (as I wanted a week in the Christmas holidays). We eventually decided (1) we'd never see such good incentives on CCV again, (2) Fall charts would likely continue to increase, and (3) though we were spending way more than we wanted initially, we could rent out points initially for a couple of years to make up the extra cost layout to get what we wanted for the long-term. So we added on runDisney Wine & Dine Week #44 at CCV for 118pts, which point us at 484 total points, just 16 points shy of the next incentive tier. We went back and forth on whether to add on to tip us over. While others were successful at convincing DVC to make an exception to add on a small amount to hit the next tier, we couldn't get that exception. But technically we added on Week 44 after the summer incentives were over, and they were giving us the summer incentives because our contracts were still open, so we weren't complaining too much. We ultimately decided on 50 points RIV because 180 total points would allow us 3 nights in the fall in a 2BR which would be perfect when traveling with kids/family, or 4-5 nights 1BR, but also that RIV's price point was lower. So technically we ended up with $175/point with CCV and $150/point with RIV.

 

[havoc315]

Still that's 21 years. So much can happen in that time span. Just look at all the new DVC hotels we have gotten in 21 years. And like so many say. Those in charge of DVC the managers, they don't even know if they will be here in 21 years, so that might be someone elses problem. Its just totally unpredictable to see what it will be like in 21 years. We might have a 5th park by then, skyliners everywhere, or we might have more pandemics.

21 years is closer than you think:
First off, in terms or resale value -- the expiring resorts won't suddenly lose their value in 2040. Their re-sale value will start to decline significantly long before that. I suspect it will really be felt in the re-sale value within the next 10 years.
Second, as you said --- look at all they have built in the last 21 years. Disneyland Tower is coming... and not unrealistic to think Reflections will eventually come back (though likely delayed 3+ years), and potentially other resorts. So right now, yes, it's 1 restricted resort and 14 "unrestricted." But this 1:14 ratio isn't going to stay the same for the next 21 years. 2042 will see a big shift, but it will start to shift before that. By 2030, only 9 years away, it wouldn't be the least bit surprising if it's more like 3:14 or 4:14... with the restrictions on the newest 3-4 resorts.

As Seth said, it's a different equation for different people. If you're planning on holding a monorail DVC for only 10-15 years, then being limited to the original 14 resorts may not register any significant pain. If your plan is more like 20 to 30 to 40 years... A re-sale purchaser may look back at regret in 25 years, wishing they had bought direct when it was "only $200 per point."

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Not trying to be snide but I’m struggling to find the cost/value proposition of buying direct DVC? With APs seemingly becoming a thing of the past what tangible benefit does a “Blue Card” membership offer to offset the thousands of dollars of cost difference versus secondary market?

To answer your question, we bought resale last January before COVID. So suffice to say, we don't see the value in direct over resale. IMO, the benefit of buying direct has nothing to do with the points you mentioned. WDW APs aren't going anywhere. We, however, only factored in the room savings for deluxe rooms when we evaluated DVC. We know that "perks" can come and go. Factoring those perks into a buying decision, IMO, is misguided and setting yourself up for disappointment. DVC makes sense due to the savings experienced on deluxe rooms over the life of the contract, and buying via resale enhances that savings A LOT.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

A lot of you have made some valid points but I still don’t think it justifies the extra $20-$50 per point that a direct contract in today’s market would cost.

$20-$50 per point?? Try $100 per point!! When we bought BCV resale last January we saved $100 per point less than what DVC was pricing for direct. We were really sweating ROFR, but it passed through.

 

[Sandisw]

21 years is closer than you think:
First off, in terms or resale value -- the expiring resorts won't suddenly lose their value in 2040. Their re-sale value will start to decline significantly long before that. I suspect it will really be felt in the re-sale value within the next 10 years.
Second, as you said --- look at all they have built in the last 21 years. Disneyland Tower is coming... and not unrealistic to think Reflections will eventually come back (though likely delayed 3+ years), and potentially other resorts. So right now, yes, it's 1 restricted resort and 14 "unrestricted." But this 1:14 ratio isn't going to stay the same for the next 21 years. 2042 will see a big shift, but it will start to shift before that. By 2030, only 9 years away, it wouldn't be the least bit surprising if it's more like 3:14 or 4:14... with the restrictions on the newest 3-4 resorts.

As Seth said, it's a different equation for different people. If you're planning on holding a monorail DVC for only 10-15 years, then being limited to the original 14 resorts may not register any significant pain. If your plan is more like 20 to 30 to 40 years... A re-sale purchaser may look back at regret in 25 years, wishing they had bought direct when it was "only $200 per point."

I will also add that nothing to prevent BVTC from removing a few of those closer to expiration So, you may not even have all 14..at least VB and HH could go a few years earlier.

 

[bakerworld]

Biggest reason to Buy Direct is the Direct Deposit of points into your existing membership. We were on a cruise in June 2018 and we spoke to DVC sales people on board. They told us when we get home to email our request to DVC, which we did. About a week later we received an email that they had the points we wanted. I called, I gave our CC # and by the calls end the points were in our membership account. Now that right there is a PERK.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Biggest reason to Buy Direct is the Direct Deposit of points into your existing membership. We were on a cruise in June 2018 and we spoke to DVC sales people on board. They told us when we get home to email our request to DVC, which we did. About a week later we received an email that they had the points we wanted. I called, I gave our CC # and by the calls end the points were in our membership account. Now that right there is a PERK.

Interesting take on that. Getting something that you paid for is a perk.