Why wait times have gotten crazy

[dlavender]

Perhaps the real aim of FP + is to have one 30 min wait, and one 60 min wait for headliners vs 1 75 minute wait. Not sure, though. I didn't realize they were developing FP Queues. If so, that would lead me to believe that they were doing exactly that.

I wonder if they would shorten the return windows to help better manage the return estimation. Maybe limit it to 30 minutes? I don't know how I would feel about it, but I wonder if it would help shorten the FP waits?

 

[WillAustin]

It is a sucker bet to waste FP early in the day. But, if you don't, there are no extra FP worth getting.

It is a convoluted, illogical system that doesn't lend itself to full days in the parks.

That was definitely our experience. Having extra MBs did help a bit though.

 

[ArwenMarie]

The goal of FP Plus was to lock people in. And to ration the ride capacity instead of building new capacity or capping attendance

 

[flicx]

This picture is from Star Tours on a Friday afternoon. That is the FP+ return line. It was solid all the through the ride. It took us 30 minutes from the time we got in the line until we were sent to a loading bay. I have pictures like this for Spaceship Earth, and TSMM.

The standby time was about an hour. I heard people walking by saying, "Why would you get in the FP+ line like that when the Standby line is much shorter?" The standby line was much shorter - but it had a 30 minute longer wait time.

The fact that we are starting to get longer and longer dedicated queues to accommodate the FP+ returns is a red flag to me.

WOW!!!! What a line!!!!!!

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Im confused why it would shock some that there would be lines for the FP+ return. Ride capacity hasn't changed and this system doesn't make them anymore efficient loading. If it's to be believed they jumped from 20% to 80% FP then you're just shifting bodies from one line to the next.

 

[Planogirl]

Im confused why it would shock some that there would be lines for the FP+ return. Ride capacity hasn't changed and this system doesn't make them anymore efficient loading. If it's to be believed they jumped from 20% to 80% FP then you're just shifting bodies from one line to the next.

Thank you for saying this! I keep trying to explain my reasoning but you did so in a quick efficient way.

Capacity doesn't change and ride loading doesn't change so the only thing that can change is where people wait.

 

[Dis703]

That's true. They can use them at 8:05 AM on Dumbo if they want.

What I meant to convey, and failed, is who needs to use a FP at 10 AM on any ride not named 7DMT?

We planned our FP at MK for 3 before lunch each of our 4MK days. This way we would eat lunch, take a break and come back and add FP for the rest of the day as needed. Some days we used maybe 7 FP. Other days only 4 or 5 depending on the lines and what we wanted to do.

 

[wisblue]

Im confused why it would shock some that there would be lines for the FP+ return. Ride capacity hasn't changed and this system doesn't make them anymore efficient loading. If it's to be believed they jumped from 20% to 80% FP then you're just shifting bodies from one line to the next.

Where are you getting the information that paper FP only allocated 20% of capacity to FPs? I can believe that the allocation went up some, otherwise there would be no reason for rides that had FP before to have longer standby lines now except for something like increased attendance or changes in overall ride capacity. 20% of capacity for a ride like TSMM (using bcrook’s capacity numbers) would mean barely over 2000 FPs in a day. If that’s what they did, there’s no wonder they ran out so early. Maybe bcrook should weigh in on this because he says that he has spent a lot of time gathering information about ride capacities, and his charts include FP allocations.

Nobody is saying that longer than average FP+ lines don’t occur occasionally. It is inevitable that there will be some ebb and flow in those lines because of the one hour (plus grace period) return windows. There can also be surges that can be attributed to specific events, like a ride closure or the ending of a nearby show that dumps a large number of visitors into the line in a short time. For example, I would guess that if you sat and watched the FP return (and standby) lines at the Safari, they would jump up briefly when a Lion King show lets out. At a ride like Star Tours, the same thing could happen as guests exit the Indiana Jones show or Lights Motors Action and head out for their next attraction.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Where are you getting the information that paper FP only allocated 20% of capacity to FPs? I can believe that the allocation went up some, otherwise there would be no reason for rides that had FP before to have longer standby lines now except for something like increased attendance or changes in overall ride capacity. 20% of capacity for a ride like TSMM (using bcrook’s capacity numbers) would mean barely over 2000 FPs in a day. If that’s what they did, there’s no wonder they ran out so early. Maybe bcrook should weigh in on this because he says that he has spent a lot of time gathering information about ride capacities, and his charts include FP allocations.

Nobody is saying that longer than average FP+ lines don’t occur occasionally. It is inevitable that there will be some ebb and flow in those lines because of the one hour (plus grace period) return windows. There can also be surges that can be attributed to specific events, like a ride closure or the ending of a nearby show that dumps a large number of visitors into the line in a short time. For example, I would guess that if you sat and watched the FP return (and standby) lines at the Safari, they would jump up briefly when a Lion King show lets out. At a ride like Star Tours, the same thing could happen as guests exit the Indiana Jones show or Lights Motors Action and head out for their next attraction.

That 20% was thrown out by Infinity earlier in the thread. I've never been able to find anything to support this but its what's been thrown out in this thread. From other things I read on touring plans it seems like it might have been higher than that but it also might have fluctuated. I read something implying it might have been close to 75% which would then make any increases very since 5% shouldn't have much of an impact overall. My point was really that a lot of people want to discredit the wait times for FP return but I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable. We' e experienced both almost walk-on and ridiculous waits so clearly there are impact factors and inconsistencies. I'd suspect there is a combination of factors that impact this. You mention location and show release times and I'd also suspect that the 30 min window at the end and start of the next hour is bad as people are rushing for the end of their window and another group is trying to pile in at the start.

 

[lugnut33]

From what i understand only .005% were even able to understand how the old FP system worked, which led to low participation rates.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

From what i understand only .005% were even able to understand how the old FP system worked, which led to low participation rates.

Yet the machines were always out so somehow that very small percentage of "super users" were able to drain the machines daily despite the 2 hour black out period.

 

[bcrook]

It would be really helpful to have more information on average FP return times, and how much this differs throughout the day. It would make sense that a FP return for Peter Pan at 3 pm, if the posted standby wait time is 90 minutes, would take longer than a FP used at 10 am, when the posted wait is 45 minutes. Maybe it would take twice as long? I've also had the experience of Mine Train having almost zero wait with FP, while Soarin' and TSMM still had pretty long waits (over 10 minutes with FP). But my experience is very limited.

More information would definitely affect which FPs we picked, and when we might use them.

I agree. This last trip I was trying to figure out Standby Times, Fastpass Return Times, and Bonus FP availability. I wanted to see if Animal Kingdom still empties out around 3:00, and how MK is affected with all these late FPs being scheduled there and everybody flocking into the Kingdom at night to ride their three rides and to catch some parades and wishes.

Touring at WDW has changed quite a bit. Lots of things to consider now. During my two trips this year, I was most shocked by 1. The standby waits of Pirates and Haunted Mansion, 2. the FP+ queues and longer waits, and 3. The influx of guests into the Magic Kingdom at Night.

Things I can't explain are the Dynamics of Dinosaur FP+ vs. Standby, what to ride in Epcot, and why the Mine Train is the toughest ticket, has a long line, and has no backup for FP+ (weird).

 

[MrInfinity]

That 20% was thrown out by Infinity earlier in the thread. I've never been able to find anything to support this but its what's been thrown out in this thread. From other things I read on touring plans it seems like it might have been higher than that but it also might have fluctuated. I read something implying it might have been close to 75% which would then make any increases very since 5% shouldn't have much of an impact overall. My point was really that a lot of people want to discredit the wait times for FP return but I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable. We' e experienced both almost walk-on and ridiculous waits so clearly there are impact factors and inconsistencies. I'd suspect there is a combination of factors that impact this. You mention location and show release times and I'd also suspect that the 30 min window at the end and start of the next hour is bad as people are rushing for the end of their window and another group is trying to pile in at the start.

Don't rely on me, if you're making a point, use whatever data or sensible inferences that you think are appropriate for you and your point. The 20% was a general approximation. Go with it or pick your own if you don't agree. Take a ride like Space Mountain... You've ridden it, right? Do you remember the old days of FP-? Did you look around? I'd guess for every person who entered the ride via the podium outside where the CM took your paper FP tickets, 4 people entered standby. That would be 20%. Then FP+ came out. At first, it stayed about the same. Then about a year later they went to the half-queue with one side FP and the other side standby. So at that point it had grown to about 50% usage, but it was definitely not half-and-half before that. Now today, TP says some rides have gone to 4:1, which is 80% FastPass. I think that is amazing that it's gone from well below 50% to around 50% to 80% over the course of just a couple years. It's really kind of scary that it's almost reservation-only. I'm really interested for our upcoming trip to observe this 80%, see how they do the lines and stuff now, and assess how things are today with such high levels of use. So I thought 20% was a pretty good guess, but if you thought it was 30% or 40%, go with whatever you think. It won't change the math much. Other rides have gone from 0% FastPass to 80% FastPass during this time. That's even scarier!

Touring at WDW has changed quite a bit. Lots of things to consider now.

Yes. Lots of change going on. The usage levels of FP+ now are so drastically different from FP-. I'm really interested to see how it plays out for us.

Things I can't explain are [...] why the Mine Train is the toughest ticket, has a long line, and has no backup for FP+ (weird).

It's new. End of story. You may be fortunate enough to go twice a year, but we haven't been since about a week before SDMT opened. It's new to us, and we happen to have a 3, 7, and 8-year old who I think will absolutely love this. I've FastPassed it 3 times we're so anticipating finally getting to try it.

 

[tlmadden73]

We planned our FP at MK for 3 before lunch each of our 4MK days. This way we would eat lunch, take a break and come back and add FP for the rest of the day as needed. Some days we used maybe 7 FP. Other days only 4 or 5 depending on the lines and what we wanted to do.

I have done this as well on my last trips to MK. It worked well even though the first Fast Pass was "wasted" usually .. it gave us the flexibility for the rest of the afternoon without being locked into the "need" to be at a certain place at a certain time.

At the other parks (with less attractions) .. probably better just to not worry about getting the fourth fast pass and get your three best available at the times you want.

 

[mesaboy2]

Don't rely on me, if you're making a point, use whatever data or sensible inferences that you think are appropriate for you and your point. The 20% was a general approximation. Go with it or pick your own if you don't agree. Take a ride like Space Mountain... You've ridden it, right? Do you remember the old days of FP-? Did you look around? I'd guess for every person who entered the ride via the podium outside where the CM took your paper FP tickets, 4 people entered standby. That would be 20%. Then FP+ came out. At first, it stayed about the same. Then about a year later they went to the half-queue with one side FP and the other side standby. So at that point it had grown to about 50% usage, but it was definitely not half-and-half before that. Now today, TP says some rides have gone to 4:1, which is 80% FastPass. I think that is amazing that it's gone from well below 50% to around 50% to 80% over the course of just a couple years. It's really kind of scary that it's almost reservation-only. I'm really interested for our upcoming trip to observe this 80%, see how they do the lines and stuff now, and assess how things are today with such high levels of use. So I thought 20% was a pretty good guess, but if you thought it was 30% or 40%, go with whatever you think. It won't change the math much. Other rides have gone from 0% FastPass to 80% FastPass during this time. That's even scarier!

Math is a funny thing. If it's based on hyper-generalized numbers based on a few observations by one person, it's pretty worthless. GIGO.

 

[tlmadden73]

This picture is from Star Tours on a Friday afternoon. That is the FP+ return line. It was solid all the through the ride. It took us 30 minutes from the time we got in the line until we were sent to a loading bay. I have pictures like this for Spaceship Earth, and TSMM.

The standby time was about an hour. I heard people walking by saying, "Why would you get in the FP+ line like that when the Standby line is much shorter?" The standby line was much shorter - but it had a 30 minute longer wait time.

The fact that we are starting to get longer and longer dedicated queues to accommodate the FP+ returns is a red flag to me.

30 minutes for a FAST PASS line? How is that even possible? How is that "fast"? I would be very upset if I showed up for my FP window and still had to wait 30 minutes in a long line.
I know my last experience with Star Tours (granted in a slow day on the last days of August) .. I "wasted" a Fast Pass on Star Tours as at 11:45 AM the standby line was a walk-on (10 minutes)... we used our fast pass (just because) .. rode and walked back on the ride again.

I remember a while back they tested a FP only queue for TSMM. i wonder if they want to do that for the more popular rides since wait times are always "overly long" for a majority of the day. So what is more annoying to someone? Not being able to get a 7DMT Fast Pass .. or having to potentially wait an hour (or more) to ride it?

 

[WillAustin]

Math is a funny thing. If it's based on hyper-generalized numbers based on a few observations by one person, it's pretty worthless. GIGO.

But it's only anecdotal if it doesn't support your point.

30 minutes for a FAST PASS line? How is that even possible? How is that "fast"? I would be very upset if I showed up for my FP window and still had to wait 30 minutes in a long line.

I've only seen that a few times and complained. Fast doesn't just mean faster than standby.

 

[MrInfinity]

Math is a funny thing. If it's based on hyper-generalized numbers based on a few observations by one person, it's pretty worthless. GIGO.

Mesa, it's the internet. And a Disney board. As such, we will always see...

* People who see a line is 70 minutes one time, throw up a picture of some strangers at Disney World, and conclude that everyone is having to wait longer and Disney is doomed.

* People who post one-liners that add nothing to a discussion.

 

[buzzgirls&dad]

We just returned form our 3rd trip using FP+ 10/23-11/1. Previously, I had never minded the system. However, on this trip we found our passes virtually useless in terms of saving time standing in line. We had ridiculous wait times to just get to the first check point and then another 20 to 30 mins before we got on the ride. It happened in every park. TSMM, POTC, HM, SDMT, BTM, TT, Soarin' etc. We used our pass first thing in the AM to try and get more for the afternoon but on party days at the MK there is nothing available except SW and a few others. Since we had to wait so long in the FP+ lines our chance at short waits for other rides was vastly diminished. This is the first time in 12 years that my DH and DD said we didn't ride on anything. We like to tour the parks in the morning have lunch maybe another ride or two and then head back to the pool. Then a nice TS meal. Since every secondary ride now has a 30 min wait we just didn't accomplish much. From a ride standpoint our trip was very disappointing.

 

[wareagle57]

I would imagine the Star Tours line is related to one or more simulators going down, which happens a good bit. On our last trip, we had ridden Star Tours 3 or 4 times in a row, never having to wait through more than one or two rides. We went to get back in line again and both lines were spilling out to the entrance. It was because a simulator went down in the small amount of time we had been waiting for our last ride.