Why wait times have gotten crazy

[3DisneyFanz]

The conspiracy theorist in me says that a corporation like Disney knows exactly what it's doing, and that is making it miserable to be in stand by, so that once you are done with FP for the day you will give up and just go eat and shop. Again, no proof and no data. I am just always suspicious of big business.

I don't think there's any conspiracy there. Iger has touted that they know they are cycling people in and out of the parks at a faster rate. What's yet to be determined is if that cycling out happens because you did three and got frustrated and left will you come back.

I was more referring to the belief that FP+ would reduce waiting and push people to things they previously weren't interested in. I'm fairly sure anyone who works at any station in the park could have told them that wouldn't work.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

So blog two comes to the same answer. Wait times are up due to FP+ and closed rides which doesn't shock most people. The only thing I have an issue with is their guess on the reason for the increase in single rider lines. I don't think it's wrong data or technical problems but rather a result of the tiering in the parks. People are trying to use those since they are using their tier 1 options on other things.

 

[amberg93]

After reading the article the real question is what was Disney thinking? They had a viable system in legacy and according to early data a lot of the extra wait times stems from closures at the studios. So had Disney spent the money on new attractions and not a redo of legacy we wouldn't have these longer wait times! That is exactly what so many of us have been saying all along!

Legacy was not good for so many people. It just benefited extreme in the know people like us who knew how to work the system. I'll stand by Disney and say that FP+ was a great addition and no matter the reason they did it, it does benefit the casual goer or the goer who wants more choices.

I fell in love with FP+ the first trip we used it and I'm still in love with it. I do rope drop when I can, but my first trip with FP+ I was just off of chemo. There was no way I was ever making rope drop because I was sleeping 10 to 12 hours a day. It simply wasn't plausible for me to get to the parks as they opened, rush to the hot attractions and then be locked into a time with whatever the machine was giving out because I needed naps around the same time each day. Everyone complains about the lack of flexibility with FP+ but honestly, the lack of flexibility was much greater with a system that didn't allow you to pick your times. I remember not taking fast passes for things we really wanted because it interfered with reservations or other plans. Now that's not a problem because I can pick when I want my FP+ for most attractions. I'd rather be awake at midnight 60 days out figuring things out than running through a theme park hoping I don't get stuck with a bad return time.

What is happening here is that people are upset they're not the only ones to benefit from the system anymore. Studios has a problem because of lack of attractions. Epcot has the same problem for the same reasons. Personally, I'm happy that more families are allowed to do the things they really want by scheduling them ahead of time and if I see a longer wait time for something I want to do, either I skip it or suck it up. I waited 60 minutes last trip for TSMM because we had the time thanks to our FP+s for other things.

Disney isn't going to change their minds about FP+ and go back to a system that benefited less people and was more restrictive. I'm waiting to see the results for MK because I have a feeling it's not going to be quite as crazy at all with how many rides there are there.

 

[wisblue]

So blog two comes to the same answer. Wait times are up due to FP+ and closed rides which doesn't shock most people. The only thing I have an issue with is their guess on the reason for the increase in single rider lines. I don't think it's wrong data or technical problems but rather a result of the tiering in the parks. People are trying to use those since they are using their tier 1 options on other things.

The version I read said that most of the small increase in wait times from 2014 to 2015 at Epcot was due to the closing of Maelstrom and an increase in attendance, with more efficient handling of FP+ as a third possible factor.

Of course, comparing 2014 to 2015 doesn't address the issue of how much FP+ increases standby lines compared to paper FP (or no FP at all) because FP+ was in effect both years. I will be interested to see if Testa addresses this at all, or if his report from last summer is his last word on that. If it is, and if you want to accept his conclusions, the wait times are not up as much as most people seem to think. For example, he now says that the average wait time for Spaceship Earth in 2015 has been 21 minutes, compared to 19 minutes last year. He also said last year that the average wait at SE was up about 6 minutes in 2014 compared to 2012 and 2013 (adjusted for attendance increases).. So, I guess it's a matter of perspective if you think an average increase of 8 minutes is a big deal, or if you would rather fixate on that as a 61% increase. As Testa points out in one of his footnotes, with wait times that small, just rounding can produce a significant difference in that percentage increase.

 

[wisblue]

BTW, if we're going to dissect the TP blog items, maybe we should include this item. In the DHS blog yesterday, Testa addressed the issue of how the FP+ entry points have become more efficient. As part of that, he says:

"To put this in perspective, in 2014 we estimated that your wait to use FastPass+ was going to be 15 to 25% of the posted wait time. That’s closer to 10% in 2015. It’s not perfect – long lines still happen sometimes – but it’s better. And we think it’s increasing standby wait times slightly versus 2014."

I see comments made on the Dis occasionally that FP+ return lines are routinely long, and are often as long as 30 minutes. I know that I have not experienced a FP return line anywhere near that long in several dozen uses. Testa's statement seems to confirm that my experience is probably pretty typical, and that those extremely long return lines are much more the exception than the norm.

 

[EricInPA]

Edit: Sorry, that gif was big

It was far easier to use than plus, that is a fact!

Oh.

 

[Hudson Hornet]

I'm not opposed to conspiracy theories, but I know I'm more likely to shop when I'm happy than miserable, and more likely to commemorate fun times with a cool souvenir after a ride, than shopping instead of attractions. . . I think miserable standby (or miserable anything) =/= more shopping and I believe Disney knows that.

I'm not saying that a miserable wait in line is going to increase sales. I'm saying wait times could possibly prevent people from wanting to wait in line. This combined with getting FP to get you in and out of the attraction quickly could definitely increase your shopping time.

Again, just the conspiracy theorist in me, but I know that people that are constantly in line going from attraction to attraction have less time to shop.

 

[cruisingtwins]

I Like fp+ the problem is the lack of attractions especially in HS and epcot. I think fp+ would be perfect if you could do it from your phone.

 

[amberg93]

So many things to address here! First off legacy was as equal as it gets for every one. You start the day off the same as everyone out there. If you absolutely wanted an attraction it was guaranteed by showing up at rope drop. That doesn't happen with plus, things are gone at midnight the day you are allowed to get them! Off site guests are really hampered under plus. You couldn't game the system under legacy one pass every two hours unless your return time allowed you to go earlier! There were no secret handshakes to use legacy! It was far easier to use than plus, that is a fact. It doesn't get any easier than insert ticket take pass!This "great addition" has come at great costs to all park goers, increased wait times at so many attractions and a price tag that would have allowed for a plethora of new attractions which basically everyone loves!

I'm sorry did you not just read the part where I couldn't get to the park at rope drop because I'd just finished chemo treatments and couldn't be up that early? I'm definitely not the only one who has ever been in that situation and I can assure you there are plenty of people who can't make it for rope drop for various reasons health related or not.

Not all the FP+ spots are given away at 60 days out. I know people who have scored 7DMT passes a week before their trip. That's still fair to offsite guests. And most of the only things gone at midnight are A&E and 7DMT? I've had no troubles getting fastpasses for 11 people on our next trip, including one that joined in late, even though we had different window opening days.

And I wasn't talking about gaming the system, I was talking about how many people didn't know how to use legacy. It's impossible not to hear about FP+ with all the information that Disney sends you.

This great addition has made the lives of people who have strict schedules to adhere by (health issues and mental disorders can make people have to have certain hours of the day dedicated to specific things) have a smoother and easier vacation. If they don't use their pass, they can reschedule most of them for other attractions or times. If you didn't want to lose your legacy fastpass for Star Tours, too bad you'd have to stay in park.

 

[amberg93]

So a system that involves logging in, linking up your families tickets then trying to find what you want and having to compromise many times and take a different attraction is easier than insert ticket and get fast pass?

You weren't compromising before? Sounds like that's not a problem? I had to compromise under the whole system because the return times would be crazy late and we had to find something earlier.

Also, you only have to link your things once and then you've got your passes set up for the whole party. Before you had to wait in line, put in tickets for everyone to get the passes and repeat every time you wanted a new one. So, you're actually saving time once you've linked everything once.

 

[EricInPA]

So a system that involves logging in, linking up your families tickets then trying to find what you want and having to compromise many times and take a different attraction is easier than insert ticket and get fast pass?

Hm, yes, it's actually much easier for me. Our accounts are already linked in MDE (via friends). I can open up the app and sign in with my fingerprint, then scan in the tickets with my phone's camera. This process takes roughly 1 minute.

The only consideration for FP+ times is to make sure there is enough time around an ADR which has never been a problem since we typically book our dinners late. If something is taken we just pick something else and wait in line. It's not really that big of a deal to us.

 

[flicx]

You weren't compromising before? Sounds like that's not a problem? I had to compromise under the whole system because the return times would be crazy late and we had to find something earlier.

Also, you only have to link your things once and then you've got your passes set up for the whole party. Before you had to wait in line, put in tickets for everyone to get the passes and repeat every time you wanted a new one. So, you're actually saving time once you've linked everything once.

Lets not forget you wait in line at kiosks after the third plus pass. Also one or two of your plus passes never existed under legacy. You just didn't need them under legacy! Again how did you compromise if you showed up early you got the pass you wanted!

 

[amberg93]

First off I am sorry to hear that you have chemo treatments. Somehow you are implying that plus is better because Disney advertised it more!

Thank you, I am better now

And I think it is. It's not just that it's more widely advertised but the fact that it is does make it better. It means more 3 year olds have a guaranteed time to meet Mickey Mouse, more 7 year olds are facing their fears of Tower of Terror, more 9 year olds are going on Safari right after lunch without having to wait in long lines to do it and aren't penalized because their parents wanted to sleep in on vacation. For me, more people (some on once in a lifetime trips) getting to know for sure they can experience specific attractions is a plus. I want people to have magical trips.

 

[amberg93]

Lets not forget you wait in line at kiosks after the third plus pass. Also one or two of your plus passes never existed under legacy. You just didn't need them under legacy! Again how did you compromise if you showed up early you got the pass you wanted!

Tbh I rarely get the fourth fastpass and the times I've needed to I've never encountered long lines.

It wasn't the first ride that we needed to compromise it was after that. Let's say it's 12 PM and I want to grab a fastpass for Space Mountain but the FP return time is at 4:50 to 5:50 but I've got a dinner reservation at Cinderella's Royal Table at 4:45. There was no way I was making it back for that fastpass, so we had to pick something that had an earlier rreturn time.

 

[EricInPA]

I am pretty sure the majority of people would say inserting a ticket and getting a pass is a bit easier than the whole plus system! Not to mention if you decide to change your mind the day of and go to a different park. No need to fret under legacy. Plus you are out of luck on so many levels!

Some people might, and that's perfectly fine. I'm not judging here, just saying what's easy for me and my group. As it stands now, I know going into the park where my fast passes are, and we can easily plot a route around the park. If a situation came up where we wanted to switch our plans around, we would make it work, and have plenty of times.

ETA: getting MM+ in and working efficiently will inform Disney's plans on how to build out the new lands. I think it was important to do this first.

I'm not going to convince someone that doesn't like FP+ that they should like it, but I do try to help those I know understand it better so that they can get the most out of it.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

The version I read said that most of the small increase in wait times from 2014 to 2015 at Epcot was due to the closing of Maelstrom and an increase in attendance, with more efficient handling of FP+ as a third possible factor.

Of course, comparing 2014 to 2015 doesn't address the issue of how much FP+ increases standby lines compared to paper FP (or no FP at all) because FP+ was in effect both years. I will be interested to see if Testa addresses this at all, or if his report from last summer is his last word on that. If it is, and if you want to accept his conclusions, the wait times are not up as much as most people seem to think. For example, he now says that the average wait time for Spaceship Earth in 2015 has been 21 minutes, compared to 19 minutes last year. He also said last year that the average wait at SE was up about 6 minutes in 2014 compared to 2012 and 2013 (adjusted for attendance increases).. So, I guess it's a matter of perspective if you think an average increase of 8 minutes is a big deal, or if you would rather fixate on that as a 61% increase. As Testa points out in one of his footnotes, with wait times that small, just rounding can produce a significant difference in that percentage increase.

Not sure if he changed the numbers after you posted but item 1 is closing attractions and item 2 is FP+. Whether you want to argue the definition of more efficient plus usage the end result is the same.

Thankfully I've never been impacted with the crazy FP return lines that people talk about now but I've certainly seen enough pictures to realize it's clearly happening. How much is hard to gauge since they don't post FP wait times. I know that even with a FP we've yet to simply walk on anything the way we used to before. It's definitely a shorter wait than SB but not as quick as it used to be.

 

[danny1649]

Disers please watch your replies, this thread is becoming argumentative and too personal. I will have to close this thread if this continues. Danny

 

[JJZMgailey]

Lets not forget you wait in line at kiosks after the third plus pass.

I haven't seen lines at the kiosks in a long time - they seem to be pretty well staffed now and folks get in and out fairly quickly.

@flicx, I think that you and FastPass+ may need to get a divorce.

 

[MrInfinity]

After reading the article the real question is what was Disney thinking? They had a viable system in legacy and according to early data a lot of the extra wait times stems from closures at the studios. So had Disney spent the money on new attractions and not a redo of legacy we wouldn't have these longer wait times! That is exactly what so many of us have been saying all along!

You realize under FP- only about 20% of a ride (or less!) was filled by FastPass. Now, about 80% of the ride is filled by FastPass (according to TP). Don't you see it is simple? 5x as many people are using it now. Thus the standby line moves slower. But the average wait among FastPass AND standby waiters, is less, because most guests are FastPassing the rides now. (4:1 on some rides according to TP).

When you say the wait times are longer, remember they're only longer FOR YOU and other Dis'ers. They are shorter for the rest of the millions of guests who are now using FastPass that never used to before.

First off legacy was as equal as it gets for every one. You start the day off the same as everyone out there.

Isn't FP+ also equal? We all start off "the day" the same. 0. FP- you pick them on one day, FP+ you pick them on another day. FP- would give dibbs to the ppl who got to the park first, FP+ gives dibbs to the ppl who get on the computer first. But we all start equal. Only what you have to do to get the best FastPasses first, has changed. I happen to prefer picking them at home than in the park.

Off site guests are really hampered under plus.

So what. They can be onsite guests if they want. This is a personal choice.

It was far easier to use than plus, that is a fact. It doesn't get any easier than insert ticket take pass!

Something is always easy for someone's who's good at it. I happen to think math is easy, others don't. You and I both thought FP- was easy, most other guests did not. In the end, 5x as many people are using FP+ than FP-. It's easy because it's on their phone. People are familiar w their phones. That sucks for you, I get it, because you now have to wait for all these people who are EASILY using FP+ when they never used FP-. But that's just life.

I get why you don't like FP+. Believe me I'm right there with you. But you keep saying it's because it's so hard to use, when really what's going on is it's so easy to use that makes it worse for you. You should be disliking that it's so easy to use for so many people. Because that is what's causing you longer waits.

 

[flicx]

I haven't seen lines at the kiosks in a long time - they seem to be pretty well staffed now and folks get in and out fairly quickly.

@flicx, I think that you and FastPass+ may need to get a divorce.

I really would like to reply Jackie but can't ! Thanks for your thoughts though!