Why wait times have gotten crazy

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I think it would be nice if they just did away with EMH and simply make a 4th Fast Pass a resort perk. I think that would be a MUCH greater incentive for people to stay on-site than EMH is.

Or keep/expand EMH and offer a 4th or 5th or even 6th FP+ during it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think it would be nice if they just did away with EMH and simply make a 4th Fast Pass a resort perk. I think that would be a MUCH greater incentive for people to stay on-site than EMH is.

I don't know. I'm much more likely to pay for onsite stays to get an extra hour (or 2, for evening EMH) in the parks with less crowds than to pay for onsite over offsite for just 1 extra FP+. I can fit more into that hour or two than I'd get with just 1 extra FP+.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I don't know. I'm much more likely to pay for onsite stays to get an extra hour (or 2, for evening EMH) in the parks with less crowds than to pay for onsite over offsite for just 1 extra FP+. I can fit more into that hour or two than I'd get with just 1 extra FP+.

What about 6 FP+, or 3 FP+ in one park and 3 FP+ in another?

Have not seen any numbers on expected added capacity that is coming from the expansions, those numbers can all go into a "new" FP+ pool.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What about 6 FP+, or 3 FP+ in one park and 3 FP+ in another?

Have not seen any numbers on expected added capacity that is coming from the expansions, those numbers can all go into a "new" FP+ pool.

There's more value in EMH to me than number of rides I can ride. One of my husband and I's favorite things to do when we're in the World is evening EMH (at least, pre DD...since having DD this has been understandably harder ). Yes, we can get on rides, but the later it gets, the emptier the park gets. We've been in the park until 3am (when EMH was 3 hrs, not 2), and we were alone in the HUB. It is a priceless memory, just sitting in the HUB, hearing the silence and having the place all to ourselves (as much as possible in a theme park ). It is completely unlike any other experience at WDW, IMO.

No amount of FP+ is better than that, for us.

 

[Hudson Hornet]

Not sure, but I have never experienced a 70 min posted time and an actual 20 min wait. I've been on the other end, posted 30, actual 35 min.....

They are supposed to send those cards with guests every so often, but if they don't, then there is no way to the times are even remotely correct.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

There's more value in EMH to me than number of rides I can ride. One of my husband and I's favorite things to do when we're in the World is evening EMH (at least, pre DD...since having DD this has been understandably harder ). Yes, we can get on rides, but the later it gets, the emptier the park gets. We've been in the park until 3am (when EMH was 3 hrs, not 2), and we were alone in the HUB. It is a priceless memory, just sitting in the HUB, hearing the silence and having the place all to ourselves (as much as possible in a theme park ). It is completely unlike any other experience at WDW, IMO.

No amount of FP+ is better than that, for us.

OK, you threw me off with the "than just 1 extra FP+" reason you gave, how about longer EMH (like they used to) but additional FP+ during it.

 

[havoc315]

You have to make the standard somewhere. We could argue that any standard would be arbitrary....not sure I understand your point with that...

Sure, in your world, if they want to make a new ride, and devote half of that to a pay for play system, no objection from me (wouldn't be a great idea, but I wouldn't fight it)

Yes, with the existing Soarin, I "insist" on the same, see my current standard.

I think you are starting to understand.....

That's the difference between it being an argument on principle, and simply your preference. You don't care what they do, as long as they leave your current wait times alone.
If it was a principled argument, then you would be against premium extras on new rides, as well as existing rides.

So if they currently were to devote half the Tower of Terror elevators to "pay for play".. you would object. But if they tore down the entire Tower of Terror, and built "Tower of Terror II" in its place, and devoted half the lines to "pay for play".. then you don't object.
You'll probably object to them knocking down rides, but they close down rides all the time. (where is Snow White's Adventure or Alien Encounter?)

 

[havoc315]

Sneakin in here sorry.

Build a "new Star Wars based Soarin". 2 theatres. 1 devoted to a 4th FP+ for deluxe, the other SB. Or the other could fall into the current "3rd FP+" choice.

lol... I was talking about a proposed system, where some ride capacity is set aside for those who pay extra (buying FPs, or resort guests, or whatever).

 

[dlavender]

That's the difference between it being an argument on principle, and simply your preference. You don't care what they do, as long as they leave your current wait times alone.
If it was a principled argument, then you would be against premium extras on new rides, as well as existing rides.

So if they currently were to devote half the Tower of Terror elevators to "pay for play".. you would object. But if they tore down the entire Tower of Terror, and built "Tower of Terror II" in its place, and devoted half the lines to "pay for play".. then you don't object.
You'll probably object to them knocking down rides, but they close down rides all the time. (where is Snow White's Adventure or Alien Encounter?)

Is it? My principle has stayed the same....I would be against a system that allowed people to pay extra and have a significant adverse effect on the waits for others who did not pay extra. - Does it matter if its based off of principle or preference, anyhow? If it was "principled" - based off your definition of principled, would you automatically agree? Curious....

Yes, if they added a "premium" tower of terror next door, with cushioned seats, and let people pay to ride the cushier one, no problem.

If they tore down the existing ToT, to add another cushy elevator (why would they have to tear the old one down?) - I would be against it - see principle (or preference, you decide)

Who wouldn't object to the knocking down of rides....Does anyone get a phone call from Disney, "hey, we are gonna knock down Space mountain, do you object?"? - No, they don't, but if they did, they would object - (is it their principles?)

Of course they close down rides all of the time......what does that have to do with anything? I would argue that these closures can be expected from a theme park......not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China.....

 

[dlavender]

I'm glad you brought up Alien Encounter - This is a case where they literally should have just knocked it down vs what they did with it - Stitch? Come on....No objection (this is clearly preference, unless you say its principles, then its principles)

 

[havoc315]

Is it? My principle has stayed the same....I would be against a system that allowed people to pay extra and have a significant adverse effect on the waits for others who did not pay extra. - Does it matter if its based off of principle or preference, anyhow? If it was "principled" - based off your definition of principled, would you automatically agree? Curious....

Yes, if they added a "premium" tower of terror next door, with cushioned seats, and let people pay to ride the cushier one, no problem.

If they tore down the existing ToT, to add another cushy elevator (why would they have to tear the old one down?) - I would be against it - see principle (or preference, you decide)

Who wouldn't object to the knocking down of rides....Does anyone get a phone call from Disney, "hey, we are gonna knock down Space mountain, do you object?"? - No, they don't, but if they did, they would object - (is it their principles?)

Of course they close down rides all of the time......what does that have to do with anything? I would argue that these closures can be expected from a theme park......not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China.....

If it was based on principles, I'd still disagree..... and we would disagree based on different principles. Communism vs. free market.

But as long as we acknowledge it's just preferences, then we can all mutually respect each other's personal preferences. But then it's not a matter of morally right or wrong.
I prefer a system that allows me to have the best possible experience at Disney World. If they want to offer me premiums that are within my budget, that allow me to have a superior experience, I'm all personally for it. If they offered premium things outside my budget, then I wouldn't personally be a big fan, but I would understand Disney has every right to do so. I recognize that in the whole universe, it's a fact of life. There is price differentiation, sometimes I can afford the extra perks. Sometimes I can't. Sometimes I can afford the extra perks, but still choose that they aren't worth the price. (I've been lent the luxury box at Madison Square Garden, but I'd never actually buy it) At other times, I may stretch my budget because I want the extra perks are worth it to me (like the $200 bottle of wine I got at dinner a few weeks ago).

 

[havoc315]

I'm glad you brought up Alien Encounter - This is a case where they literally should have just knocked it down vs what they did with it - Stitch? Come on....No objection (this is clearly preference, unless you say its principles, then its principles)

I LIKED Alien Encounter! lol.

 

[dlavender]

I LIKED Alien Encounter! lol.

I did too, but given the choice of Stitch or Knock down, give me knock down - then a bench, or another "alien leg" stand....

 

[dlavender]

If it was based on principles, I'd still disagree..... and we would disagree based on different principles. Communism vs. free market.

But as long as we acknowledge it's just preferences, then we can all mutually respect each other's personal preferences. But then it's not a matter of morally right or wrong.
I prefer a system that allows me to have the best possible experience at Disney World. If they want to offer me premiums that are within my budget, that allow me to have a superior experience, I'm all personally for it. If they offered premium things outside my budget, then I wouldn't personally be a big fan, but I would understand Disney has every right to do so. I recognize that in the whole universe, it's a fact of life. There is price differentiation, sometimes I can afford the extra perks. Sometimes I can't. Sometimes I can afford the extra perks, but still choose that they aren't worth the price. (I've been lent the luxury box at Madison Square Garden, but I'd never actually buy it) At other times, I may stretch my budget because I want the extra perks are worth it to me (like the $200 bottle of wine I got at dinner a few weeks ago).

I would say, in your terms, that yes, its preferences. I prefer a one ticket experience that delivers on an unencumbered experience (which is what I get). I also enjoy that there are premiums that I can enjoy if I choose to indulge.

I'm not sure if its "principles" or "morals" that don't allow me to prefer a system as you have suggested, but whatever it is, I just don't "prefer" that system. I'm certainly not advocating an economic or political system. I don't think that people in Orlando should be chosen by the government at birth to have to work at the ticket center, for example....

Yes, it certainly is a fact of life - VIP tours will exist everywhere, even Disney (like they currently do).

 

[Triple Trouble]

Very interesting read. I just have one comment.

As someone in the data industry, it would be very unusual for WDW not to use the data from the FP+ and bands to "right size" all of their operations. This would include all staff, all rides, food carts, cash registers, trash removal, replenishment carts, lighting, heat, etc. etc. Therefore, I would bet both the FP+ effect and the "plant efficiencies" are to blame for added wait times.

Again. It would be very VERY unusual to have this data and not adjust the plant to optimize the final outcome. Unfortunately, the adjustment is meant bring the final product as close to the designated "optimum level" as possible ("optimum" is the quality level that is designated by the company as the minimum acceptable level). To get more than the "optimum level" you will have to pay more. The problem arises when that optimum level erodes over time as a way to increase profits. This is very common in manufacturing.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

So if they build a brand new ride..... Let's say they build a new Star Wars based Soarin. 2 theaters. 1 devoted to premium FP, 1 standby only.
Since this isn't a "current" ride, you have no objection to 1 theater for each.
But with the existing Soarin, you insist on 2 theaters for the base customers.

Sneakin in here sorry.

Build a "new Star Wars based Soarin". 2 theatres. 1 devoted to a 4th FP+ for deluxe, the other SB. Or the other could fall into the current "3rd FP+" choice.

lol... I was talking about a proposed system, where some ride capacity is set aside for those who pay extra (buying FPs, or resort guests, or whatever).

That's exactly what I proposed.

 

[SureAsLiz]

I know DLR =/= WDW, but these were some wait times during a halloween party recently. (Have you been on the NSS thread? People would riot if these were party wait times out here)



And this was early on. Haunted Mansion was 2 hours later. Come the next non-party night the waits were even worse.
By mid-morning Saturday, RSR FP line was at least an hour. Not the line to get on the ride with FP, but the line to get a FP. By noon, you could wait in an 80 minute standby for ToT, or grab a FP for 8pm. (and all of this is in the "light" park). I basically lived at DHS this summer and I can remember maybe a small handful of times wait times were anywhere near that, and there was always a FP available for sooner than 8 hours out.

Add to that the fact that most of the major rides were down at park opening (RSR, TSMM, Screamin') and the fact that you can't get FP while the ride is down, and standby lines were crazy all day.

There is no FP+ to blame out there.

 

[Planogirl]

I know DLR =/= WDW, but these were some wait times during a halloween party recently. (Have you been on the NSS thread? People would riot if these were party wait times out here)

View attachment 131491

And this was early on. Haunted Mansion was 2 hours later. Come the next non-party night the waits were even worse.
By mid-morning Saturday, RSR FP line was at least an hour. Not the line to get on the ride with FP, but the line to get a FP. By noon, you could wait in an 80 minute standby for ToT, or grab a FP for 8pm. (and all of this is in the "light" park). I basically lived at DHS this summer and I can remember maybe a small handful of times wait times were anywhere near that, and there was always a FP available for sooner than 8 hours out.

Add to that the fact that most of the major rides were down at park opening (RSR, TSMM, Screamin') and the fact that you can't get FP while the ride is down, and standby lines were crazy all day.

There is no FP+ to blame out there.

Could you get FP for these attractions? I'm not clear if those were available at DL during a party.

I think that Disney solves the problem at WDW by not doing anything special to the rides. It looks like the worst lines are at attractions done up for Halloween. Except of course Peter Pan. That one remains a mystery at both parks. And also Splash Mountain. Maybe visitors are enjoying boats that don't drown you.

 

[SureAsLiz]

Could you get FP for these attractions? I'm not clear if those were available at DL during a party.

I think that Disney solves the problem at WDW by not doing anything special to the rides. It looks like the worst lines are at attractions done up for Halloween. Except of course Peter Pan. That one remains a mystery at both parks. And also Splash Mountain. Maybe visitors are enjoying boats that don't drown you.

No FP during the parties. And they were very empty, especially compared to the ones I went to out here.
Yes, the halloween rides were consistently the busiest, but there's only 2 of those. Peter Pan was 45 minutes at 11, and I bit the bullet since I figured that was the lowest the wait time was going to be that weekend (and I wasn't wrong). This weekend I got on PPF with a 10 minute wait at the end of the night in MK.

Saturday afternoon all the rides were at least 45 minutes - Small World, Mr Toad, Snow White - with the longest being Space at 2.5 hours.

(as a random point, 7D was at 40 minutes when I checked a few minutes ago, and its a non-party night. I've been to MK nearly every Wednesday since the parties started, and they have all been pretty crowded for a weeknight)

 

[Planogirl]

No FP during the parties. And they were very empty, especially compared to the ones I went to out here.
Yes, the halloween rides were consistently the busiest, but there's only 2 of those. Peter Pan was 45 minutes at 11, and I bit the bullet since I figured that was the lowest the wait time was going to be that weekend (and I wasn't wrong). This weekend I got on PPF with a 10 minute wait at the end of the night in MK.

Saturday afternoon all the rides were at least 45 minutes - Small World, Mr Toad, Snow White - with the longest being Space at 2.5 hours.

(as a random point, 7D was at 40 minutes when I checked a few minutes ago, and its a non-party night. I've been to MK nearly every Wednesday since the parties started, and they have all been pretty crowded for a weeknight)

I'm not sure how to compare all of that to WDW except to say that all theme parks seem way too busy lately.