Why wait times have gotten crazy

[minnie-apple-mouse]

It'd be nice if they up'd the limit of fastpasses over three per day, but that's a pie in the sky request for sure.

Maybe not, they could offer a 4th or even 5th (maybe more) to Deluxe guests with the new attractions coming.

 

[dlavender]

Y'know, that's a good point as well. How accurate are Disney's posted wait times on average, and how often are they updated?

Not sure, but I have never experienced a 70 min posted time and an actual 20 min wait. I've been on the other end, posted 30, actual 35 min.....

 

[havoc315]

No, principle is leaving the current experience unhindered by a "new" experience. Building duplicate rides for purchase would in no way hinder the current experience. (any by "new" experience, I am obviously referring to a pay for play system....)

Principle intact....

But "current" is an arbitrary standard.

So if they build a brand new ride..... Let's say they build a new Star Wars based Soarin. 2 theaters. 1 devoted to premium FP, 1 standby only.
Since this isn't a "current" ride, you have no objection to 1 theater for each.
But with the existing Soarin, you insist on 2 theaters for the base customers.

 

[ArwenMarie]

That would stay the same as current (other than A&E is a passing fad), this would be only for "new" additions.

Right but I don't think they need to do something like that because the booking windows already ensure that offsite are at a huge disadvantage with booking the very high-demand FPs. Or are you talking about shutting out the Values and Mods? They could switch the booking window for those also I guess.

 

[mjallemand]

Maybe not, they could offer a 4th or even 5th (maybe more) to Deluxe guests with the new attractions coming.

That's great and all, but I've never stayed at anything above a Value resort. Extra fastpasses aren't quite worth paying two to three times per night for lodging.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

But "current" is an arbitrary standard.

So if they build a brand new ride..... Let's say they build a new Star Wars based Soarin. 2 theaters. 1 devoted to premium FP, 1 standby only.
Since this isn't a "current" ride, you have no objection to 1 theater for each.
But with the existing Soarin, you insist on 2 theaters for the base customers.

Sneakin in here sorry.

Build a "new Star Wars based Soarin". 2 theatres. 1 devoted to a 4th FP+ for deluxe, the other SB. Or the other could fall into the current "3rd FP+" choice.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Right but I don't think they need to do something like that because the booking windows already ensure that offsite are at a huge disadvantage with booking the very high-demand FPs. Or are you talking about shutting out the Values and Mods? They could switch the booking window for those also I guess.

Some blend of what you say, either way "additional attractions" are not in current inventory and fair game IMO.

I'm just saying new attractions could be used to bump the 4th and/or 5th available for some guests.

Deluxe: book 3 anywhere like now, then a 4th in any new attractions. If you choose a "new one" in AK, and 3 in MK, you would have to hop, but that's your choice. You could pick 4, all in AK.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

That's great and all, but I've never stayed at anything above a Value resort. Extra fastpasses aren't quite worth paying two to three times per night for lodging.

Goes back UNI does exactly that for example.

Its all choices, but "new" attractions as SB (no extra charge) are better than no new attractions IMO. Use RD.

 

[NYHeel]

This whole discussion is absurd. This whole new vs. old and change my experience vs. not change it is ridiculous.

Disney has set a clear precedent that they will provide some enticements to stay on site but not a huge game changing amount of enticements. The 30 vs. 60 day window is a perfect example. Perhaps at some point in the future they'll tweak it some more and allow on site guests to book an extra fast pass or some other enticement we haven't thought of yet.

You will then have to make a decision if you want to stay on site or not. Personally, if I'm there with my family of 5 there's almost no enticement that would get me to stay on site. If they were to make the difference really significant I would either not come or just game the system. Staying on site just isn't really an option with 5 or more people. But I'm not really concerned about any of that.

 

[hopemax]

Not going to speak for Len, as he may pop in here to comment. With that said, I am involved in another thread over at touringplans.com- and based upon his comments over there, Len's new blog should be out today or tomorrow with some new information. Don't know if their research is completely done, but quite a bit of additional research seems to be done. Guess we will find out how much they have accomplished in the last few days once it is posted. I just checked before coming over here and it wasn't up yet- would guess that someone will chime in here once they see it has posted since this thread was originally started based upon his comments about a week ago regarding this topic.

Good. The last "what is going on with wait times blog" happened, much too soon, as far as I was concerned. It takes time for people to adjust, and the offsite guests were only added to the system Dec 2013 for AK, and Jan 2014 for the rest of the parks. Then Touring Plans made their big pronouncement on Feb 19th, 2014 only weeks after, and when the resort was in "off-season" mode. A lot of things hadn't happened yet. No Easter, no Summer, no Holiday season. And those all go to affect utilization.

You can break people down into a few groups

People who know about it, and use it to it's maximum
People who know about it, and use it partially
People who know about and don't use it
People who don't know about it.

At the time of Touring Plans first blog, I would bet there were far more people in groups 2,3,4 then there was in group 1. After more people started experiencing some of the problems, and reporting back how vital those 3 FP's were, the more people started moving up the chain. So more people using it to maximum, more people using it partially and fewer people not using it at all.

But I imagine a large culprit happened after the first blog post. April 28, 2014 - what day is that? That's the day that the ability to make 4th, 5th, 6th FP+ came online. Then utilizing your FP became REALLY important. Not just to make and use your first 3, but to use them early enough that there would still be good stuff for your 4th and 5th. That shoved even more people into Group 1, and using it to maximum, as well as diverting more seats to the FP line. And in a system where more seats are diverted, than people opting out of standby, the standby line clogs up.

 

[EricInPA]

Deluxe: book 3 anywhere like now, then a 4th in any new attractions. If you choose a "new one" in AK, and 3 in MK, you would have to hop, but that's your choice. You could pick 4, all in AK.

This discussion (premium FP) has been interesting, but I don't see how restricting/granting FPs based on resort level will do anything for Disney or the average guest. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone that would bump their moderate stay to a deluxe for an extra fast pass. Even the 30vs60 day window isn't that great of an incentive.

 

[dlavender]

But "current" is an arbitrary standard.

So if they build a brand new ride..... Let's say they build a new Star Wars based Soarin. 2 theaters. 1 devoted to premium FP, 1 standby only.
Since this isn't a "current" ride, you have no objection to 1 theater for each.
But with the existing Soarin, you insist on 2 theaters for the base customers.

You have to make the standard somewhere. We could argue that any standard would be arbitrary....not sure I understand your point with that...

Sure, in your world, if they want to make a new ride, and devote half of that to a pay for play system, no objection from me (wouldn't be a great idea, but I wouldn't fight it)

Yes, with the existing Soarin, I "insist" on the same, see my current standard.

I think you are starting to understand.....

 

[Hudson Hornet]

I really think lines would move better accross the board by eliminating FP but you already have people so accepting of the illusion of time savings that you'd never get away with repairing the problems you created with your fixes.

That has been my experience as well. The standby lines used to at least move. Now I find myself standing in a "30" line for 45 minutes or more. Thank you It's a Small World FP+!

I believe you are correct about the ramifications of removing the system as well. People would lose their heads! Dis boards servers would probably crash! And some would probably stop visiting WDW.

I do not know what the best scenario for the happiness of all guests would be. I just know that the FP+ system hasn't exactly enhanced my experience. I much preferred the ticket system. I used to average 6 fast passes a day. Now I am doing well to get a 4th that I'll actually want to use. And most of the time, I am not finding a 4th that I or my kids care about.

 

[tlmadden73]

Maybe not, they could offer a 4th or even 5th (maybe more) to Deluxe guests with the new attractions coming.

I think it would be nice if they just did away with EMH and simply make a 4th Fast Pass a resort perk. I think that would be a MUCH greater incentive for people to stay on-site than EMH is.

 

[EricInPA]

I think it would be nice if they just did away with EMH and simply make a 4th Fast Pass a resort perk. I think that would be a MUCH greater incentive for people to stay on-site than EMH is.

Especially if it was one of those golden use whenever/wherever ones. Maybe not enough to push you onsite from offsite, but still nicer than an extra hour in the morning at DHS.

 

[mjallemand]

I think it would be nice if they just did away with EMH and simply make a 4th Fast Pass a resort perk. I think that would be a MUCH greater incentive for people to stay on-site than EMH is.

I'm liking this idea.

 

[ldymcbth]

That has been my experience as well. The standby lines used to at least move. Now I find myself standing in a "30" line for 45 minutes or more. Thank you It's a Small World FP+!

I do not know what the best scenario for the happiness of all guests would be. I just know that the FP+ system hasn't exactly enhanced my experience. I much preferred the ticket system. I used to average 6 fast passes a day. Now I am doing well to get a 4th that I'll actually want to use. And most of the time, I am not finding a 4th that I or my kids care about.

Completely agree with this. We are - across the span of a day - no longer saving any time with FP+. I guess the only plus to it is that we know walking into a park that we are going to get to ride X, Y, and Z that day. It gets on my nerves to wait 25m for Small World, 30m for Buzz, etc., particularly when we have to stand and watch our line not move AT ALL for ages and ages due to the FP+ers. We used to be able to do SO much stuff during the course of a day by utilizing FPs and rope drop, and now even getting there at rope drop, it's a mess. Epcot in particular was so horrible our most recent visit. At 9:15 (with a 9a opening), Test Track standby was 50m. We didn't do much at Epcot at all - we just couldn't stomach a 40m standby for Nemo, or 30m for Imagination. And I know that's our choice, but it has really impacted our enjoyment of the parks.

As an addendum, without fail the CM's with the worst attitudes and least pleasant demeanors at our most recent visit? The CM's in charge of traffic control at the FP+/standby interchange. And I can't say I blame them - it's a zoo.

 

[cruisingtwins]

Maybe not, they could offer a 4th or even 5th (maybe more) to Deluxe guests with the new attractions coming.

I would be ok with Disney offering a front of the line pass to NON headliners to deluxe resort guests.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

This discussion (premium FP) has been interesting, but I don't see how restricting/granting FPs based on resort level will do anything for Disney or the average guest. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone that would bump their moderate stay to a deluxe for an extra fast pass. Even the 30vs60 day window isn't that great of an incentive.

Its a good discussion for sure.

WDW is gaining a lot of knowledge with whats been in place. Pretty sure they will know what to tweak going forward. If new attraction adds "X" capacity-they can decide if that level is enough to give everyone a 4th, or only enough for onsite to be a 4th, or deluxe only.

Depending on added capacity

6 FP+ Deluxe
5 FP+ Mod
4 FP+ Value
3 FP+ Off site

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I would be ok with Disney offering a front of the line pass to NON headliners to deluxe resort guests.

Great example. 3 FP+ and all non headliners FOTL.