Why so many SSR resales?

[tjkraz]

I was not indicating when SSR sales began, I am saying when the bulk of the contracts were sold.

I understand that. But as I pointed out in my next sentence, we have no way of knowing how the demographics play out among those who are selling. What percentage of contracts listed are from people who have owned for 4+ years vs. those who bought <2 years?

I seriously, seriously doubt it. Most folks are not going to take $80/point for selling their SSR contract which they purchased within the last couple years to turn around and buy AKV at around $100/point.

Depends upon the situation. I paid $79 per point for my SSR contract.

And yes, I know people who have sold SSR for AKV.

I happen to agree that it sounds ridiculous, but others don't see it that way. Believe it or not, there are actually people who buy BCV points via resale rather than SSR because they want that home resort advantage. Imagine paying $90+ per point for BCV instead of <$80 for SSR. On a 160-pt contract, we're talking about people paying $2000 MORE--plus the reality of higher annual dues--just for the BCV booking advantage. And they get 12 years LESS ownership to boot!!!

That happens every day. Is it really so much different than selling one to buy another?

These are folks who bought into "the dream", only to realize that they've gotten into something they really cannot afford.

Let's not turn a blind eye to what's been going on. Just like the recent home purchaser who was able to get a mortgage with little down and low initial monthly payments, Disney/DVC was giving financing to these same people. The original poster said there were 80 or so SSR listings with TSS - I'll guess there will be over 100 by summer - these are not people looking to switch to AKV - I assure you.

By no means and I turning a blind eye to the economy. But I think you have a little bit of tunnel-vision when it comes to considering motivations to sell.

As Chuck pointed out previously, OKW is about 60% of the size of SSR. Right now there are 77 SSR contracts listed on TTS (not including those which are "sale pending.") There are 43 OKW contracts up for sale--that's 56% of the number of SSR resales (43 / 77). That's pretty much right on par with the resort size difference.

Same with BWV--BWV 32 contracts for sale. Overall BWV is 42% of the size of SSR and it has 41% of SSR's number of contracts for sale.

DVC hasn't been actively selling BWV or OKW for nearly a decade. Clearly these are not people who have recently purchased via DVC's friendly sales process and financing terms, only to discover it isn't something they can afford. People sell for a variety of reasons: death, divorce, loss of job, because they just don't use it anymore and, yes, even because they want to switch Home resort.

If you want to do a better comparison of how the economy is impacting DVC resale numbers, take a look at the figures in this post:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=22654118&postcount=26

For instance, BWV resales available went from 9 contracts in Feb '07 to 36 contracts in Jan '08 (and 32 contracts today.) Now THAT is a huge jump--but not exactly something we can attribute to buyer's remorse given the age of the resort. SSR numbers are also up, but it's the only one of the resorts listed in that table which has seen a growth in ownership throughout 2007.

Interesting numbers, to say the least. But still difficult to draw many conclusions when we're looking at some very specific shapshots in time.

 

[Connears]

I was not indicating when SSR sales began, I am saying when the bulk of the contracts were sold.



I seriously, seriously doubt it. Most folks are not going to take $80/point for selling their SSR contract which they purchased within the last couple years to turn around and buy AKV at around $100/point. These are folks who bought into "the dream", only to realize that they've gotten into something they really cannot afford.

Let's not turn a blind eye to what's been going on. Just like the recent home purchaser who was able to get a mortgage with little down and low initial monthly payments, Disney/DVC was giving financing to these same people. The original poster said there were 80 or so SSR listings with TSS - I'll guess there will be over 100 by summer - these are not people looking to switch to AKV - I assure you.

Well, said....

Connears

 

[DVC Mike]

Believe it or not, there are actually people who buy BCV points via resale rather than SSR because they want that home resort advantage. Imagine paying $90+ per point for BCV instead of <$80 for SSR. On a 160-pt contract, we're talking about people paying $2000 MORE--plus the reality of higher annual dues--just for the BCV booking advantage. And they get 12 years LESS ownership to boot!!!

Or there are crazy people like me who would pay $101 a point for BCV direct from DVC instead of <$80 for SSR. I must be insane!

Of course, SSR holds no appeal for me while BCV does. To me, the extra cost is well worth it. Just like before DVC, I would gladly pay more money to stay at BC than CSR. To me, the monetary difference is so small when compared to the great enjoyment I get by staying at a resort I love. Life is short, and I want to enjoy mine!

I can see a few people who bought SSR just because that was all DVC was selling, buying an add-on for another resort they discovered they love and then turning around and selling their SSR contract -- even at a loss.

 

[Jimdvc]

What would the re-sale value of SSR be if the contract had the same end date as BW or BC?

IMO that number, what ever it would be, shows the "value" the fair mkt system places on a SSR vacation vs the other resorts.

 

[DISNEY FIX]

Or there are crazy people like me who would pay $101 a point for BCV direct from DVC instead of <$80 for SSR. I must be insane!

Of course, SSR holds no appeal for me while BCV does. To me, the extra cost is well worth it. Just like before DVC, I would gladly pay more money to stay at BC than CSR. To me, the monetary difference is so small when compared to the great enjoyment I get by staying at a resort I love. Life is short, and I want to enjoy mine!

I can see a few people who bought SSR just because that was all DVC was selling, buying an add-on for another resort they discovered they love and then turning around and selling their SSR contract -- even at a loss.

I like how you think.

 

[tjkraz]

What would the re-sale value of SSR be if the contract had the same end date as BW or BC?

IMO that number, what ever it would be, shows the "value" the fair mkt system places on a SSR vacation vs the other resorts.

The greatest influence on resale pricing is DVC's ROFR. With DVC selling SSR points "new" at $94 each, the ROFR figure will be somewhere south of $80 per point. When DVC has thousands of its own points yet to sell at a high profit level, they aren't going to take back points at prices where they stand to earn only a couple of dollars profit after administrative expenses.

When SSR's initial offering ends, all sales incentives will disappear. No more $10 discount...no more Developer's Points...no more free annual passes, etc. While DVC may not price SSR at the full $104 each, it will be higher than $94 plus other incentives.

And when that price goes up, the ROFR threshold may increase. That would drive up resale prices.

Of course the other inequality in your comparison is the size of the resorts. There are nearly 5x as many rooms at SSR as BCV. Even if demand for the contracts were equal, SSR would tend to have a lower price since there will be more sellers competing for the same number of buyers.

(And let's not confuse demand for specific resort contracts with member demand to stay at the resorts. While I agree that guests tend to favor BCV and BWV as destinations, not all people are willing to pay a premium price to own at those resorts. I own at SSR and I was not mislead in any way by my Guide at the time of purchase. I am quite content with my ability to book outside of my Home at 7 months or less, and there have even been occasions when I've booked SSR right at 11 months. Oh, and there was one occasion when SSR was full, but I got a room at BWV. )

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I think another factor for the increase in SSR resales is that it is getting harder to book at the 7 mos. mark. Along with the big sales pitch for this, many bought with the notion of staying at all of the resorts, never anticipating they actually wouldn't get some of their reservations at 7 mos. I think reality has set in, and maybe they are buying where they truely want to stay now, with the 11 mos. home booking advantage.

 

[Jimdvc]

I think another factor for the increase in SSR resales is that it is getting harder to book at the 7 mos. mark. Along with the big sales pitch for this, many bought with the notion of staying at all of the resorts, never anticipating they actually wouldn't get some of their reservations at 7 mos. I think reality has set in, and maybe they are buying where they truely want to stay now, with the 11 mos. home booking advantage.

You just stated what many people know, but are reluctant to post.

 

[tjkraz]

You just stated what many people know, but are reluctant to post.

As I stated previously, I think there's an element of this in all resale numbers. Whether it's a BCV owner selling to buy at AKV, SSR selling for BWV, or whatever the case may be.

To put the resale numbers in perspective, the most recent SSR ownership figures I could find were from year-end 2006. Back then there were over 33,000 contracts sold. By now that number is certainly approaching 40,000. Having 77 contracts on the resale market out of thirty to forty thousand does not exactly indicate widespread owner dissatisfaction.

In fact, on the topic of member satisfaction, most of the posts that I see tend to come from owners at OTHER resorts who are upset over their inability to book their Home on less than 7 months' notice. THAT is the unrealistic expectation, IMO.

While this board is not necessarily representative of the membership block as a whole, it's a pretty good sampling. And I don't see a whole lot of posts from people who believe they were given false expectations during the sales process.

A few grumblers certainly have chips on their shoulders over decisions like the size of SSR, but I think those folks had the most unrealistic expectations. Disney isn't going to stop building anytime soon, and their future development efforts certainly won't favor small boutique resorts like VWL and BCV.

We've all got our 11-month window. Use it or lose it. Personally I'll be checking-into a Standard View 2B at the BoardWalk in about 3 weeks. And if that hadn't been available, I'd be walking into OKW or SSR or any other resort with the same smile on my face.

 

[Jimdvc]

does not exactly indicate widespread owner dissatisfaction.

I must have missed the threads by the BC and BW and VW owners asking if their wait list for SSR would come thru

;insert dorky gif img in attempt to belittle;

 

[SSRFred]

I think another factor for the increase in SSR resales is that it is getting harder to book at the 7 mos. mark. Along with the big sales pitch for this, many bought with the notion of staying at all of the resorts, never anticipating they actually wouldn't get some of their reservations at 7 mos. I think reality has set in, and maybe they are buying where they truely want to stay now, with the 11 mos. home booking advantage.

That's the number one rule in timeshares. Buy when and where you want to stay unless you are willing to be flexible. That's one of the reasons why I bought SSR rather than AKV.

 

[toocherie]

I must have missed the threads by the BC and BW and VW owners asking if their wait list for SSR would come thru

;insert dorky gif img in attempt to belittle;

Actually, in another thread (just can't find it right now) someone mentioned that they tried to get into SSR at one point and had to settle for either BW or BC. Granted, that was just one example-and I do acknowledge that there are lots of people asking for waitlists for BC/BW and VW. But I also don't recall them saying all the time where their home resort is.

But just by sheer numbers (based on the spreadsheet someone nicely prepared) there will always be as a rule less availability at the 7-month mark for BC, WL and BW than there will be for SSR or the other larger resorts--I wasn't on these boards prior to SSR coming in but maybe the old-timers can chime in--I assume at one point OKW was the "default" resort when someone couldn't get in to their resort of choice? Now that title has switched to SSR because it is larger?

Can't we all just agree that there are "different strokes for different folks," and that for whatever reason we all chose different resorts as our home resorts (either for emotional or financial reasons)?

I know I bought DVC primarily because I think of WDW as a "happy" place and it would be a nice atmosphere to spend some time away--either at a park, DTD or relaxing in the resort. I participate in these boards as a means of gaining info I probably couldn't get elsewhere and to share the "joy" of Disney.

I also chose SSR because (quite frankly) I was buying to get first crack at Grand Californian since I live in SoCal and the cost and MF were lower at SSR. I am taking my first trip to Florida in about 35 years -- I am booked right now at SSR, but plan to visit the other resorts and experience all of them because it's hard to imagine the "feel" of a resort without being there. Maybe I'll stay in another one this trip if I can book a couple of nights at 7 months--maybe not. I do know--knowing me--I would not like a "busy" resort which I get the impression BW and BC are. Maybe I'll decide that in the end SSR is not for me and once I've bought GC sell it. Maybe then I'll re-buy somewhere else. Or maybe I'll just keep SSR. Or maybe I won't have a "home" resort in Florida at all. So I am not emotionally tied to SSR (or any other resort) at all. But to each his/her own.

I just don't think it's necessary to attempt to belittle other people's choices or for anyone (be it a BC, BW, WL, AKV, OKW or SSR owner) to have to justify their purchase.

 

[disneynutz]

The economy is just one factor. The truth is that the sellers know more than we do. They know the release date of the Contemporary and they are freeing up funds to buy.

 

[toocherie]

The economy is just one factor. The truth is that the sellers know more than we do. They know the release date of the Contemporary and they are freeing up funds to buy.

Could be!

Hmmm. For those of you "wishing for" the Contemporary--will you not get a leg up on the public if you are a current DVC owner? So shouldn't you retain at least a portion of your current DVC holdings to be able to be first on the list? I know with the GC that first priority are the newer DVC members who bought in California, then existing DVC members then the general public.

 

[disneynutz]

Could be!

Hmmm. For those of you "wishing for" the Contemporary--will you not get a leg up on the public if you are a current DVC owner? So shouldn't you retain at least a portion of your current DVC holdings to be able to be first on the list? I know with the GC that first priority are the newer DVC members who bought in California, then existing DVC members then the general public.

If you are like our family, you own at more than one resort. If we sell one to buy Contemporary we are still owners and get early priority.

I don't really know what priority gets you. In the case of AKVs we got our name on the invisible tapestry. If we would have waited we would have received additional Developer points.

 

[snowbunny]

I must have missed the threads by the BC and BW and VW owners asking if their wait list for SSR would come thru

Yes me too (I am sure SSR is a very lovely resort)

 

[tjkraz]

I must have missed the threads by the BC and BW and VW owners asking if their wait list for SSR would come thru

;insert dorky gif img in attempt to belittle;

How is that relevant to a discussion over why SSR owners would list their contracts for sale?

I guess when all else fails, change the subject and toss insults?

 

[a Really Bad Egg]

 

[dvc_john]

I must have missed the threads by the BC and BW and VW owners asking if their wait list for SSR would come thru

Yes me too

Well, when I checked into SSR on January 20th, SSR had a full house, and another couple also checking in at the same time were told their SSR ressie had been moved to BCV, something they hadn't requested.

 

[ExRIGuy]

Just sold our SSR position in January and closed, got a very fair price and used it 3 times in as many years and sold it for what we paid for it. Financially, a good deal. Why did I sell?

Because I was mislead into believeing I'd be able to book at the smaller resorts -- which simply ain't true, unless it is a time of year we simply cannot go without taking the kids out of school. "Buy where you want to stay" is great advice -- but we didn't know that when we bought. We are gonna hope the DVC market softens in the next year or so (I don't believe this is a financially good deal at anything over $83-85 point) and buy back in "where we want to stay" . . . or at least don't mind staying if we can't sample other locales. We just never warmed to SSR. It is an resort designed by accountants, not imagineers. AKV may follow in its footsteps -- jury is out.