Why only one DVC in California?

[skier_pete]

So...something that has made me go HMMMMM since buying into DVC...why is there only ONE DVC location in California and only a small one at that.

I realize the argument could be made that there isn't really ROOM for one, but it seems to me the demand there is so much higher right now than the demand in Florida that they could easily build more units in California and make gobs and gobs of money. For instance - why not convert one of the Disneyland towers to DVC?

Is it because they are able to charge sooo much for cash reservations and get away with it that they don't feel the need to convert rooms to DVC?

I'm just curious if anyone that's been in DVC longer than I have has heard anything about this.

 

[disneynutz]

Money, more buyers in the East and WDW has more to offer.

Aulani was expected to attract West coast and Asia buyers but sales are very slow.

Bill

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

I realize the argument could be made that there isn't really ROOM for one

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Disney somewhat acknowledges the lack of DVC options at DLR. They exempt the rule of four and the $95 Disney Collection fee for DLR resorts. Of course, the points exchange rate is still terrible.

 

[tjkraz]

Aulani is the main reason. Once they made the decision to move forward with that property, a new Disneyland DVC was basically off the table for many years. Until more of Aulani has been sold, they won't risk cannibalizing its sales with a competing west coast destination.

Disneyland may not have the wide open spaces of WDW but there are plenty of undeveloped nooks and crannies around the hotels which could host the right project.

 

[disneynutz]

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Disney somewhat acknowledges the lack of DVC options at DLR. They exempt the rule of four and the $95 Disney Collection fee for DLR resorts. Of course, the points exchange rate is still terrible.

It's still money. if Disney could make more money with another DVC resort there they would. At WDW converting regular resort rooms into DVC rooms makes them money, apparently at Disneyland it doesn't.

Bill

 

[loveglobe]

I agree on the Aulani theory, but also want to point out that there's also many more options in SoCal for affordable and nearby places than at WDW where if you stay off property you're guaranteed at least a 15 minute drive just to get near a WDW park. Odds are the average out of town DLR visitors will stay at a cheapo hotel or VRBO and only spend a couple days out of their weeklong California trip at the parks, whereas people tend to go to WDW and spend much of their time on site with only a couple visits elsewhere like to Universal or Sea World. I think that's why DVC offers more options at WDW than DLR - because there's more demand and more families needing an "affordable" way to spend a week there. That said, once Aulani is finally sold out, I hope they'll open up another DVC at DLR because having only 48 rooms at VGC is REALLY quite limited.

 

[AquaDame]

Money, more buyers in the East and WDW has more to offer.

Aulani was expected to attract West coast and Asia buyers but sales are very slow.

Bill

Aulani takes just as long a (and more expensive) plane ride to get to for West Coasters, and Hawaii is very different than a theme park. It would be as if they wanted HHI or VN to compete with the WDW properties which just doesn't make sense. I can't believe that is the reason they won't build a DLR DVC.

Aulani is the main reason. Once they made the decision to move forward with that property, a new Disneyland DVC was basically off the table for many years. Until more of Aulani has been sold, they won't risk cannibalizing its sales with a competing west coast destination.

Disneyland may not have the wide open spaces of WDW but there are plenty of undeveloped nooks and crannies around the hotels which could host the right project.

I'd be very interested in DLR DVC but you can keep Aulani. They are very different beasts... how could that be cannibalism? Personally I think the sheer number of locals that make up the numbers of guests makes more sense.

I agree on the Aulani theory, but also want to point out that there's also many more options in SoCal for affordable and nearby places than at WDW where if you stay off property you're guaranteed at least a 15 minute drive just to get near a WDW park. Odds are the average out of town DLR visitors will stay at a cheapo hotel or VRBO and only spend a couple days out of their weeklong California trip at the parks, whereas people tend to go to WDW and spend much of their time on site with only a couple visits elsewhere like to Universal or Sea World. I think that's why DVC offers more options at WDW than DLR - because there's more demand and more families needing an "affordable" way to spend a week there. That said, once Aulani is finally sold out, I hope they'll open up another DVC at DLR because having only 48 rooms at VGC is REALLY quite limited.

$350-500 a night isn't much of an option for a lot of people... if you don't choose to spend that then you're looking at the 'cheapo' places. The nicer hilton and such are a bus ride vs. walking and being at the park in 5-10 minutes - no contest for our $. I think Disney did limit the options for days of admission to 5 or less, so that is reasonable, but a 4 night stay is still a good amount of money IMO. I still think they're losing out.

 

[loveglobe]

$350-500 a night isn't much of an option for a lot of people... if you don't choose to spend that then you're looking at the 'cheapo' places. The nicer hilton and such are a bus ride vs. walking and being at the park in 5-10 minutes - no contest for our $. I think Disney did limit the options for days of admission to 5 or less, so that is reasonable, but a 4 night stay is still a good amount of money IMO. I still think they're losing out.

That's exactly right, and is why I said I didn't think there was as much demand for DLR DVC as for WDW.

 

[skier_pete]

Aulani is a good point. I'm sure they consider that a "west-coast" DVC. Does Disney consider Aulani a success? It's hard to tell at this stage. I guess what will tell us is if after it's sold they build another "away from Disney DVC".

Truthfully, I would be tempted by something like that were it more accessible. (i.e. if there was one in the Carribean).

 

[gdrj]

I also wonder if at Disneyland with the park being much smaller is there a need for DVC.

 

[Longhairbear]

We've been spending all of our points at Disneyland for the last 5 years, and haven't been back to WDW at all in the last 5 years. We do have trouble booking a villa as they are always booked up. If they built another DVC they certainly would fill it up. When we can't get a villa, we get one of the hotel rooms. The most common complaint about DVC at Disneyland, is that there are no vacancies.

 

[tjkraz]

I'd be very interested in DLR DVC but you can keep Aulani. They are very different beasts... how could that be cannibalism?

Hawaii is a popular vacation spot for those living on the west coast. Right or wrong, Disney's justification for building Aulani was that they would sell a large portion of the points to folks who reside in the western US. If they have to sway people by dangling VGC as a carrot that can be booked at 7 months with Aulani points, they will.

Point is that the've already invested something like $600 million in Aulani. Building another Disneyland DVC at this stage will further slow sales of Aulani.

Are there people who would buy a Disneyland DVC who have no interest in Aulani? Absolutely. But that business isn't going anywhere. Most of those buyers will be ready and waiting in 2018, 2020 and beyond. But in the meantime, some will get impatient and spend their money on Aulani instead.

Aulani is a good point. I'm sure they consider that a "west-coast" DVC. Does Disney consider Aulani a success? It's hard to tell at this stage. I guess what will tell us is if after it's sold they build another "away from Disney DVC".

Truthfully, I would be tempted by something like that were it more accessible. (i.e. if there was one in the Carribean).

Funny you mention the Caribbean because I've heard people make this analogy:

Eastern US -> Caribbean
=
Western US -> Hawaii

With such a large portion of DVC owners based on the eastern US (DVC cited a figure of 85% a few years back), the west seems to be an untapped market.

Most signs suggest that Aulani isn't selling as well as Disney had hoped. Impossible to know if they are 10% behind projections, 20%, 50%, etc. The annual dues FUBAR and DVC firings (Jim Lewis, et al) certainly cast a cloud over the resort right out of the gate.

Aulani is such a huge development that it was never going to be a quick sell. With nearly 500 villas, it's bigger than Animal Kingdom Villas....bigger than BLT and VGF combined.

I seriously doubt that we will see another off-site development until Aulani wraps up. That could take the better part of a decade. Even then, off-site is a market where DVC will have under-whelmed 3 times; neither HHI, Vero nor Aulani has been a smashing success. If Disney wants to grow its roster of destinations, they're better off adding to Concierge Collection (which they've been doing) and pushing the RCI trade options.

 

[skier_pete]

I also wonder if at Disneyland with the park being much smaller is there a need for DVC.

Well, define "need". Does need = demand? As current, the DVC units at GCV are either snatched up well before the 7-month mark, or are instantly gone at 7-months. Therefore, there is clearly more demand than there is supply.

Speaking for myself, I would NEVER pay the $400+ prices to stay and GC or DLH, but I would consider using my DVC points to stay at a Disney resort there.

We are tentatively planning a stay in Feb '16. If I can get a room at the GCV with my DVC points, then we will go. If I can't we will either stay off-site (a loss of income for Disney) or we will not go at all (a bigger loss of income for Disney).

Meanwhile, GCV DVC resales are the highest priced of all resales (with the exception of the Grand Floridian, which is still being sold new). Even Aulani, which is still for sale new, is cheaper resale.

There is pretty clearly demand

 

[skier_pete]

Aulani is such a huge development that it was never going to be a quick sell. With nearly 500 villas, it's bigger than Animal Kingdom Villas....bigger than BLT and VGF combined.

I seriously doubt that we will see another off-site development until Aulani wraps up. That could take the better part of a decade. Even then, off-site is a market where DVC will have under-whelmed 3 times; neither HHI, Vero nor Aulani has been a smashing success.

I think the problem there is that when you are selling a timeshare at WDW or even DLR as Disney, you are competing only with the badly overpriced Disney hotel rooms. When you are selling a beach in Hawaii, you are competing with Hilton or Wyndam or whatever other timeshares are out there. Now you have to justify to people why I should pay 2 times more for the Disney experience in Hawaii. It's a harder sell I think. And I would think part of the problem for west coasters is that really to then they have Aulani, and GCV and that's it. I don't think it's as appealing as east coast DVC is.

We are leaving on a ski trip to Colorado in a few days, and DW and I were discussing how it was too bad that Walt Disney didn't live a few more years and have the Mineral Springs ski resort become reality. We then were talking about if Disney had a DVC at a ski resort, we would probably line up to be day 1 buyers - and I would never, ever, ever buy direct DVC from Disney in Florida.

 

[DebbieB]

Rumor is when they built the new wing at GCH that included the DVC rooms, they built them so that they could be easily converted to DVC in the future. Supposidly the dues budget for VGC includes all the rooms in the new wing, including the hotel rooms. I guess Disney is paying those dues. Since VGC soldout pretty fast and there is a waiting list, I am surprised they have not converted some of those rooms to DVC. They did take the step of adding hotel rooms to the Disney Collection but the points are outrageous.

I'm 4 for 4 at 7 months. Studios in May 2011 and September 2012, 1 bedroom in August 2013 and August 2015 (both Sunday to Thursday before D23, then moving to PPH on cash).

 

[luckyman_apd]

When you look at it, WDW is a resort.....so much bigger, and so much more than just parks. you don't get that Resort feel in DLR like WDW. Size is a huge factor, but also Southern California is a different economic status level than WDW. Rooms pretty much start at $400 a night and go up from there, and they get it...filled to capacity. Only the Deluxe resorts can charge that much.....and DLR fills to capacity where WDW doesn't always.

I'm sure if Disney could buy the hotels around DLR it would do something.....but it's just not cost effective. It's not that Disney CAN'T make money on it out there.....it's just they make MORE money doing what they already do.

As a fan of both, and once who has visited both, I wouldn't stay as long at a DLR stay as I would WDW. Don't get me wrong, I love the california parks much better than Florida......just the parks themselves.....but there is so much more to WDW than just the parks.....and you really don't have that at DLR.

 

[AquaDame]

We've been spending all of our points at Disneyland for the last 5 years, and haven't been back to WDW at all in the last 5 years. We do have trouble booking a villa as they are always booked up. If they built another DVC they certainly would fill it up. When we can't get a villa, we get one of the hotel rooms. The most common complaint about DVC at Disneyland, is that there are no vacancies.

This is another reason we can't justify buying elsewhere and planning on booking at 7 months - there is a great chance we can't.

Hawaii is a popular vacation spot for those living on the west coast. Right or wrong, Disney's justification for building Aulani was that they would sell a large portion of the points to folks who reside in the western US. If they have to sway people by dangling VGC as a carrot that can be booked at 7 months with Aulani points, they will.
Point is that the've already invested something like $600 million in Aulani. Building another Disneyland DVC at this stage will further slow sales of Aulani.
Are there people who would buy a Disneyland DVC who have no interest in Aulani? Absolutely. But that business isn't going anywhere. Most of those buyers will be ready and waiting in 2018, 2020 and beyond. But in the meantime, some will get impatient and spend their money on Aulani instead.
Funny you mention the Caribbean because I've heard people make this analogy:
Eastern US -> Caribbean
=
Western US -> Hawaii
With such a large portion of DVC owners based on the eastern US (DVC cited a figure of 85% a few years back), the west seems to be an untapped market.
Most signs suggest that Aulani isn't selling as well as Disney had hoped. Impossible to know if they are 10% behind projections, 20%, 50%, etc. The annual dues FUBAR and DVC firings (Jim Lewis, et al) certainly cast a cloud over the resort right out of the gate.
Aulani is such a huge development that it was never going to be a quick sell. With nearly 500 villas, it's bigger than Animal Kingdom Villas....bigger than BLT and VGF combined.
I seriously doubt that we will see another off-site development until Aulani wraps up. That could take the better part of a decade. Even then, off-site is a market where DVC will have under-whelmed 3 times; neither HHI, Vero nor Aulani has been a smashing success. If Disney wants to grow its roster of destinations, they're better off adding to Concierge Collection (which they've been doing) and pushing the RCI trade options.

Hawaii absolutely is, but here is the thing: Oahu isn't. When we (and everyone we know on the west coast) go to Hawaii we head to Maui, Hawaii (the big island), Kauai THEN Oahu in terms of popularity. Sure you might stop by for the north shore or to see Waikiki (but not stay, way too crowded) and see Pearl Harbour. Its not an every year destination, and honestly romance is just as strong if not a larger pull than a family trip. Food in Hawaii is not cheap. You cannot drive to Hawaii the way you can the parks. Often you island hop. You can't dangle a resort that is all but sold out at 7 months as a carrot to us. Numbers don't lie - Aulani remains a disappointment and they need to move on. Some may wait, not enough are giving in and buying, but none of us are getting any younger and a decades long commitment looks less enticing with every passing year. By 2020 that ship will have sailed for us, so I know its not looking likely at all since nothing is on the drawing board.

Well, define "need". Does need = demand? As current, the DVC units at GCV are either snatched up well before the 7-month mark, or are instantly gone at 7-months. Therefore, there is clearly more demand than there is supply.

Speaking for myself, I would NEVER pay the $400+ prices to stay and GC or DLH, but I would consider using my DVC points to stay at a Disney resort there.

We are tentatively planning a stay in Feb '16. If I can get a room at the GCV with my DVC points, then we will go. If I can't we will either stay off-site (a loss of income for Disney) or we will not go at all (a bigger loss of income for Disney).

Meanwhile, GCV DVC resales are the highest priced of all resales (with the exception of the Grand Floridian, which is still being sold new). Even Aulani, which is still for sale new, is cheaper resale.

There is pretty clearly demand

We've rented points for a stay this Christmas at GCV in fact. Since it commands a premium price per point to even rent due to the lack of owner points this will likely be the only time we will.

I think the problem there is that when you are selling a timeshare at WDW or even DLR as Disney, you are competing only with the badly overpriced Disney hotel rooms. When you are selling a beach in Hawaii, you are competing with Hilton or Wyndam or whatever other timeshares are out there. Now you have to justify to people why I should pay 2 times more for the Disney experience in Hawaii. It's a harder sell I think. And I would think part of the problem for west coasters is that really to then they have Aulani, and GCV and that's it. I don't think it's as appealing as east coast DVC is.

We are leaving on a ski trip to Colorado in a few days, and DW and I were discussing how it was too bad that Walt Disney didn't live a few more years and have the Mineral Springs ski resort become reality. We then were talking about if Disney had a DVC at a ski resort, we would probably line up to be day 1 buyers - and I would never, ever, ever buy direct DVC from Disney in Florida.

They absolutely do. Ko'olina shares the beach just like all beaches in Hawaii - the only reason to choose Aulani is for Aulani itself which goes against the idea of heading to Hawaii. We stayed there for a few nights back when it opened Oct 2011 on our honeymoon no less. If thats not emotional attachment I don't know what is. Very lovely resort, haven't been back because there are too many other more beautiful islands to see especially when you think of the cost to get there. We honestly did think about buying in - we came very close even went to a meeting with a rep on a DCL cruise who laid out all our options for us. The price has since gone up by a crazy $30 per point! In the end we walked away because we just can't see heading to Oahu every year. If we rented the points out for $$$ then what's the point? How can we pretend we can book GCV at 7 months instead? It just doesn't have the draw. We have been to Hawaii three more times and the one time we went to Oahu we stayed somewhere cheaper and had dinner at the resort once. That was enough.

Rumor is when they built the new wing at GCH that included the DVC rooms, they built them so that they could be easily converted to DVC in the future. Supposidly the dues budget for VGC includes all the rooms in the new wing, including the hotel rooms. I guess Disney is paying those dues. Since VGC soldout pretty fast and there is a waiting list, I am surprised they have not converted some of those rooms to DVC. They did take the step of adding hotel rooms to the Disney Collection but the points are outrageous.

I'm 4 for 4 at 7 months. Studios in May 2011 and September 2012, 1 bedroom in August 2013 and August 2015 (both Sunday to Thursday before D23, then moving to PPH on cash).

Were there any studios available in August..? Since its just I and my husband we could never justify a one bedroom....

 

[DenLo]

. . .

Is it because they are able to charge sooo much for cash reservations and get away with it that they don't feel the need to convert rooms to DVC?

That would be my guess, DVC would probably love to build another resort, but Disney doesn't feel the need to give up the rooms.

 

[franandaj]

When the VGC first opened (or within the first year), all the bellmen were talking about rumors about one of the Disneyland Hotel Towers being turned into DVC. I'm guessing that was before Alanis opened. I haven't heard any rumors since then.

They certainly need more
DVC units there. Not sure if the DLH would sell like VGC. And in all reality there are 71 rooms as the 2 bedroom lock offs almost always book as a studio and one bedroom.

 

[skier_pete]

When the VGC first opened (or within the first year), all the bellmen were talking about rumors about one of the Disneyland Hotel Towers being turned into DVC. I'm guessing that was before Alanis opened. I haven't heard any rumors since then.

They certainly need more
DVC units there. Not sure if the DLH would sell like VGC. And in all reality there are 71 rooms as the 2 bedroom lock offs almost always book as a studio and one bedroom.

That actually brings up a good point, the larger size villas aren't probably as popular at a location like DLR, where people are unlikely to devote an entire week. I wonder if they WERE to convert part of DLR in the future, if they would pull a move like at the Poly and put in mostly studios.

I do think DLH would sell as DVC. While they probably have no problem renting rooms for $400 a pop, I bet there would be plenty of people that would buy in for the cheaper prices.

The talk that DVC doesn't work for California - the more I think about it, the more nonsense that is. While DVC works really well for people coming down once a year, it works equally well if not better for people that come multiple times per year for 2-3 days, and I think there's a HUGE number of guests at DLR of that variety that come down for a few days at a time.

I agree though that the main reason we aren't seeing DLR-DCV talk is Aulani. It will be interesting once they finish selling it. (Another 2 years perhaps?) if California DVC discussion resumes.