Why not expand?

[Stork]

Target those big rig owners. I've been to many places that sell "rv timeshares" it's not that uncommon.

Won't be any new loops or new construction; costs too much. Why suck out construction money from the considerable (and steady) cash they can get from re-designating the current sites as DVC. Once it starts, how long before NO Premium/Premium Meadow campsites are available for us "non-big-rig-owners-who-are-not-DVC-owners." Disney knows those sites are the Golden eggs of the FW Goose. It will be less than a NY minuter before there won't be any eggs for us regular campers.

 

[nomorethan8]

If I was to take my DVC points, I can reserve a campsite for a Minimum cost of 9 points a night for a Full service site on an off season time of year. For a seven day week, you would use a minimum of 63 points. For a whole year, call it 51 weeks (not 52 due to state regs), that would equal around 3200 points per site. Even if they sold it for $100 a point, I think they can build a site for far less than $320000.00, even with a gazebo on each site. That's only one site and using a low price per point. How many sites are in a loop? If they were to do it, they can build new loops with ease. And the Fort, just as it stands right now, can exist as it is, because it would be the source that creates its raving fans.

 

[bama_ed]

To reboot my idea of Fort expansion:

Personally I would LOVE, like many of you, to see the Fort expanded. So, for the record, AGAIN, this was my idea (somewhere I can hear SouthAlabama5er/Randy chuckling at me-saying "Ed, you're a dreamer").

I've been lucky enough to have visited Disneyland Paris (originally EuroDisney) three times in my life (always arriving by commuter train from central Paris). They have some themed resorts that were built in the late 80s or early 90s when DLP was first built with just its MK. But about 5 miles from DLP's MK and HS equivalents is "Disney's Davy Crockett Ranch". It is basically Fort Wilderness but with cabins only.

https://www.disneylandparis.com/en-us/hotels/disneys-davy-crockett-ranch/

It was originally built named as Camp Davy Crockett.

So my idea was to re-use the "Camp Davy Crockett" name (in some form) for a FW-DVC property and build it across from FW on the south side of Vista Boulevard (the main drag in front of the Fort entrance) which is in the direction of Epcot. Build it as a DVC and provide:

1. Long pull-through sites that are wide and paved.
2. A picnic table/paved area with a wide, permanent shade roof/pavilion (camp swing?) at every site.
3. All the hookups one could ever want
4. Golf cart trails that extend over to Best Friends Pet Care
5. A berm/elevated viewing long position for carts with piped in music that is near Epcot Center drive so one can take your golf cart (included in the DVC fee automatically maybe?) and at night look over the EP parking lot and Spaceship earth to watch the fireworks/Illuminations-successor-whatever-it-is. Again, music piped in.
6. Maybe tram or bus service over to the current Fort for movie/singalong to maintain continuity.
7. Some sort of pool/lazy river worthy of a DVC.
8. Any other DVC/timeshare features that would attract a timeshare/rv owner.

It's not waterfront property on Bay Lake but Disney will never give that to a single ground level development. You could still use the current Fort Wilderness check-in building for CDC. That might take some pressure off FW and put $$$ in Disney's wallet. But I get the sense Disney will not build on any patch of ground that can't promise mega-millions in profit.

But the market is there. The space is available. And Disney has HUNDREDS of other acres to build on.

Maybe someday - but not in my lifetime.

Bama Ed

PS - area for my proposal circled/highlighted in yellow below:

 

[nomorethan8]

Perfect! People don't realize how many people that bought Poly of the Floridian also have Newmars and King Aires. So I would think you might grab some of those folks, to satisfy their other passion, "glamping". My first year at the fort was in 73 in a pop up. I was 9. My parents bought it used. It stayed in the family at my brothers yard for year. 4 years ago my family cleaned it up and the first place we took it was to the Fort, 1200 miles away. We did it again a month later. I have a big rig. I have a DVC contract. I have been to Disney between 20 and 30 times. That's the passion the Fort instills. They can sell that out without a problem.

But there are no words can describe sitting on the deck outside of Trails End. Just watching and moving at your own pace, which is kinda absent at the other hotels. Leave the Fort alone.

Expand it.....But they won't.

 

[Stratman50th]

I'm not sure about the upgrade-itis, or even the part about spending money. A lot of "big rig" owners already have a place in the north and south and spend 6 months at both. I'm not sure you could get someone to buy in for a week at a time. Or spend the money that Disney would charge for a month or more. Unlike a resort with lots of rooms the space in a campground would be limited. If you're targeting the "big rigs" the sites need to be at least Premium size with maybe a Casita or other structure to plus the site making it worth the price I'm sure Disney would try and charge. Just my thoughts.

 

[nomorethan8]

Other than being part of the demographic, I would not know the specifics of the whole demographic. The dream might be a pipe dream. But I would bet you that the Riviera sales will sit around longer than a Camp Davey Crockett would with the right amenities.I think your right that snowbirds would not be in that demo. I imagine, younger families who want to make an upfront investment for future vacations would be the target. Its a multi decade lease. But the lure of being able to stay at the Poly or Bay Lake or Copper Creek can be irresistable. I know. Some may call me a sucker. I say I'm fortunate. I love my DVC.

 

[nomorethan8]

And Golf carts to Epcot would seal the deal for me!

 

[Stratman50th]

I'm part of the demographic as well, that's why I asked. Just because I own a "Big Rig" doesn't mean I would pay an insane price (more than I already do) to park at Disney. I do love the Fort, but there are a lot of other places in our country I want to see. I'm not a snowbird either. I live about 30 minutes from the Fort. I think that there would need to be a whole lot more offered to make it financially worthwhile for the buyer. @bama_ed had some good ideas but I don't see it in my lifetime either.

 

[nomorethan8]

A bunch of years back, I tried buying Boardwalk on the after market. Disney pulled their ROFR on me 4 times, and also had 1 sale pulled due to the sellers changing their mind. Why did I try so hard for Boardwalk. I loved the fact I could walk to Epcot. I had stayed their felt the difference. Access to a park or parks is something that people are willing to pay up for. @bama_ed hit the nail on the head. Give me access to Epcot by cart. Sale! That's the key. If you don't do the parks, this probably won't work.

 

[bama_ed]

I'm not sure about the upgrade-itis, or even the part about spending money. A lot of "big rig" owners already have a place in the north and south and spend 6 months at both. I'm not sure you could get someone to buy in for a week at a time. Or spend the money that Disney would charge for a month or more.

My idea is not to catch the full-timers on their migration north or south between their winter and summer spots. Like the resort/DVC approach, appeal to the regularly returning guest who shows up at Fort Wilderness once, twice a year or every other year. Dust off the ol' "Own a piece of the Mouse" in an outdoor theme. You can stay as many days as your points will allow.

Access to a park or parks is something that people are willing to pay up for. @bama_ed hit the nail on the head. Give me access to Epcot by cart. Sale! That's the key. If you don't do the parks, this probably won't work.

I hear what you're sayin', nomorethan8, but it would be difficult to get across, over, or under Epcot Blvd. But it sure would be a selling point in favor of such a project. And it would be relatively cheap to build.

Bama Ed

 

[Stratman50th]

My idea is not to catch the full-timers on their migration north or south between their winter and summer spots. Like the resort/DVC approach, appeal to the regularly returning guest who shows up at Fort Wilderness once, twice a year or every other year. Dust off the ol' "Own a piece of the Mouse" in an outdoor theme. You can stay as many days as your points will allow.



I hear what you're sayin', nomorethan8, but it would be difficult to get across, over, or under Epcot Blvd. But it sure would be a selling point in favor of such a project. And it would be relatively cheap to build.

Bama Ed

I really don't know how DVC works Ed. But if it's like a timeshare I can foresee a lot of issues. Like I was saying before, it takes a lot more property to fit RVs, a Lot of RVs into an area than it does to build multi-story, multi-room resorts and sell them off. Plus, you really have to make it worth while to people because there's a lot cooler places out there to end up at for a week or more... and that comes from someone who really does enjoy the Fort. I guess we can sit down together in October with a cup of coffee and figure it all out....

 

[StormyCA]

We aren't the demographic for DVC. We're retired, no grandkids, on the other side of the country, and nDH isn't a Disney Guy so wouldn't want to spend as much time as needed to make it worthwhile. But I can see the value for younger families or people with children and grandchildren who would really use it after the original purchasers have shuffled off this mortal coil. (Are DVC memberships 'inheritable'?)

That being said I can see the value of a FtW 'only' timeshare IF they could make it cost less than the traditional 'stay at any DVC property' membership. Or perhaps if DVC invested in upscale RV resorts in other locations. But again, I don't know enough about timeshares, let alone DVC, to know if that would be profitable.

 

[nomorethan8]

Stormy CA: It's not a typical timeshare. Your issued points where you can use them to reserve a room at any resort that belongs to DVC. When people buy, they buy a home resort and get first dibs at your home resort to reserve a room. You are not given a specific week, although there is an option for that. They can be passed to kin. There are yearly maintenance fees. ugh. Access to free washer dryers. yesss! Discounts on merch. Specials on Annual passes (Very significant savings). And days where they close the parks down just for Dvc members. That's the general gist of things. Riviera Dvc rules have changed a lot of the rule of when it time to sell your points to someone else, and a concern for new DVC properties. But yes you can will them to your heirs. There are lots of details i'm leaving out but...... Expand the Fort! ......They won't.

 

[Stork]

...I guess we can sit down together in October with a cup of coffee and figure it all out....

As I read this, I confess I was NOT expecting "cup of coffee" as the drink of choice for a conversation like that...
Just saying...

 

[Stork]

...Specials on Annual passes (Very significant savings)....

Got an email yesterday saying NO new Annual Pass sales. Not sure if that applies if you buy into DVC or not...

 

[nomorethan8]

Just for giggles. There is a exit ramp that lets the traffic from Epcot Center Dr pass under Epcot Center Dr, just before the Toll Booth to the parking lot. I don't know if there would be room for a golf cart path.

 

[Stratman50th]

As I read this, I confess I was NOT expecting "cup of coffee" as the drink of choice for a conversation like that...
Just saying...

Truth in advertising: I don't drink. Not for lack of trying, just couldn't get any traction! LOL

 

[Sjm9911]

I think i said it before. Land is a premium. Yes they get 130 or so a night for the spot. But if they build it into a hotel , and its say 5 floors that same spot is 250 a night x 5 so 1250 bucks. They will not build the fort out. Its about money, and cost recouped per square foot. Is the fort profitable for them, maybe , but not as much as a hotel. Its monopoly 101. I want my hotel on park place, not baltic ave. They offer the fort because its there and built allready, not because they want to offer cheaper alternatives for people to enjoy disney.

 

[nomorethan8]

Its monopoly 101. I want my hotel on park place, not baltic ave.

I think every business owner would like to sell a Maserati or Ferrari. Riviera is beautiful. Rumor has it that they are having a hard time selling it, even before Covid. Reflections, another high end place, is postponed, maybe even cancelled. The cost and time to build a Riviera has got to be astronomical compared to a high end campground. Sold as a DVC, the upfront money from for each site would be a cash cow. The maintenance fees have got to be sucking them dry on Riviera right now because DVC development still owns most of the building. What are the maintenance fees at the Fort. Campgrounds are virus maintenance friendly. What's the size of the staff needed at a campground as opposed to a hotel.

And then there is the big question. Would a DVC campground sell. Based on emotional response, The Fort does have a completely universal advantage of having almost 50 years of raving fans. It would sell! Riviera has none of that. CC, Poly, BLT, Floridian, BC, all sold out because of raving fans of that particular hotels that were in existence prior to building the DVC. BW and BC had raving fans of Epcot. You can step out of those hotels and be in Epcot, and for that matter you can walk to Hollywood Studios. (I would take the boat there, instead). Riviera doesn't have either a hotel fan base or really easy access to the parks.

Access to the parks with the Golf cart, which I would consider to be fun, would be a the key to the sales. Without it it would be a harder sell.

 

[nomorethan8]

Golf Carts would be Covid protection from Pubic Transportation also.