Why not buy the cheapest home resort??

[Desperado]

Originally posted by WebmasterDoc
I've asked for evidence in this very thread and have yet to have a response from Desperado. If your evidence consists only of your personal opinion that OKW is underutilized, please just say it's just "YOUR OPINION". Thus far you've not owned up to that, but have edited posts frequently after being called on the comments you've made. (I even quoted one of your edits in a post prior to your changing your own words.) If you have some statement from DVC that addresses a concern that OKW is underutilized, then please share that correspondence.

Actually, I wasn't going to share this (somehow its perceived as sprinkling salt on a wound, which is not my intent), but I spoke with MS again wednesday and asked them about OKW availability compared to the availability of other DVC resorts as I have suggested to others. The CM I spoke with reported that it is easier to get reservations at OKW than at other DVC resorts overall throughout the year. They shared the next easiest was HH because of reduced demand during winter months. But overall they would have to say OKW because of the demand for HH throughout the summer. Anyone else call MS today and recieve information to the contrary?

If repeated reports by MS are supposed to only be one poster's opinion, fine, it's my opinion that was formed based on multilple reports from MS, multiple threads on this forum touting availability as one of the advantages of OKW and other posters experiences reported in this thread. I do not have quantitative trended statistical reports reports fom DVC regarding OKW having availability over other DVC resorts and identifying the cause for that inequity, nor a letter from DVC or letter of concern to all OKW owners stating this as a problem . My opinion I'm sharing was formed by a qualitative approach, formed by triangulation of information (see Practical Research Planning and Design, Leedy & Ormrod re: triangulation to eliminate bias), - unstructured interviews with MS on occassions of making reservations and wednesday's inquiry, a previous thread talking about the advangage of OKW is it's availability, and reports from other posters several listed previously regarding thier experiences when making reservations.

If you do not feel that there is a difference in demand between resorts, so be it. I have not observed a facutal trended report from DVC to refute my opinion regarding demand levels either. I have observed an unwilliness from several posters above to respond when asked whether they think demand is equal or there is an imbalance. If your getting different information in your conversations with MS than stated above saying there is no difference between resort availability when making reservations, or that OKW is less available than other DVC resorts, please share.

It doesn't negate an opportunity to make or politely discuss opportunities for improvement at OKW that could potentially increase demand. It shouldn't be so "taboo" to discuss and does not need to be characterized as an indictment, condemnation, or measure of inadequacy of a resort. As I have stated, how do we make a nice resort even nicer, how do we add additional pros to the other positive reasons to stay there, of course it's up to OKW owners to decide by current polls, etc., but there's not harm in talking about it.

If something is enjoyed as is, that's NOT "excessive defensiveness"- it's called acceptance.

Ah, come on. Nobody is claiming OKW is not enjoyed as is by those that stay there and is a terrrible and uncalled for missrepresentation of my part of the discussion.

the criticism offered in this post in the guise of seeking suggestion may appear to be every bit as negative as the comments by that one poster

I dissagree that criticism is being offered in this post in the guise of seeking suggestion. My opinion is that this characterization is a missrepresentation, and is itself uncalled for criticism.

So, I guess OKW is absolutely perfect as it currently is and there is no room for any improvement to make it a more attractive option for DVC members making reservations (home resort owners or owners of other resorts), nor should any improvements dare be suggested as part of a discussion about percieved imbalance in demand levels. Soliciting possible suggestions for OKW resort improvement from other posters and OKW owners is not appropriate and a guise for resort condemnation and a claim that the OKW resort is not being enjoyed as is.

I stand corrected.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm thinking it's waaaaaayy past time to find out how that forum "Ignore" feature works...

 

[SleepyatDVC]

Originally posted by Desperado

If you do not feel that there is a difference in demand between resorts, so be it. I have not observed a facutal trended report from DVC to refute my opinion regarding demand levels either. I have observed an unwilliness from several posters above to respond when asked whether they think demand is equal or there is an imbalance. If your getting different information in your conversations with MS than stated above saying there is no difference between resort availability when making reservations, or that OKW is less available than other DVC resorts, please share.

Hi, I totally agree with you that there is a difference between resort availability. However, I don't believe that it's due to less demand for OKW. As from my previous post, IMO it is due to increased supply instead.


It doesn't negate an opportunity to make or politely discuss opportunities for improvement at OKW that could potentially increase demand. It shouldn't be so "taboo" to discuss and does not need to be characterized as an indictment, condemnation, or measure of inadequacy of a resort. As I have stated, how do we make a nice resort even nicer, how do we add additional pros to the other positive reasons to stay there, of course it's up to OKW owners to decide by current polls, etc., but there's not harm in talking about it.


No harm at all. Every resort could stand for improvement. But maybe a request for OKW improvement ideas would be better addressed in a separate thread? First of all, some of the people who might have some great constructive suggestions might not want to wade through 18 pages or even open this thread. IMO, one reason your repeated requests (to the same few people who have followed this thread) for a dialogue about possible improvements to OKW in order to increase resort demand aren't getting a lot of responses is because if someone feels that there isn't a real lack of demand for OKW (rather an increased supply), then they might not have anything to suggest to correct it.



So, I guess OKW is absolutely perfect as it currently is and there is no room for any improvement to make it a more attractive option for DVC members making reservations (home resort owners or owners of other resorts), nor should any improvements dare be suggested as part of a discussion about percieved imbalance in demand levels. Soliciting possible suggestions for OKW resort improvement from other posters and OKW owners is not appropriate and a guise for resort condemnation and a claim that the OKW resort is not being enjoyed as is.




OKW is not perfect. Although, I don't think any of the DVC resorts are. There is always room for improvement, even at OKW. Soliciting possible suggestions for OKW resort improvements from other posters and OKW owners is a GREAT idea for a new thread.

There probably aren't enough people willing to add to such a long thread and I think a lot of the people that did follow this thread got left behind a while ago or lost interest. Hmmm,... and maybe I'm the only one still up this late? Tired, rambling... If you start a new thread, I promise to reply - but not tonight - off to bed. Stop trying to get someone to start a dialogue with you about OKW improvements on THIS thread. No one's really listening anymore (except me?) It's a dead horse. Elvis has left the building. Have a good night - whoever's still followiing this thread and is still awake!

 

[dianeschlicht]

Originally posted by DeeP
I agree that OKW will never be even with BWV for dues because there is nothing you can do about the very vast differences in the location of the 2 resorts as far as major parks, convenience, etc. But as far as making the 2 resort's dues a little more even........ you never know. OKW might one day add on a pool slide, have life guards at the pools, elevators, room service, more dining options at the resort, etc., etc., This would bring the resort amenities a little more equal and therefore cause the dues to be more equal.
Hey, one never knows.........stranger things have been known to happen in this world!

One thing you are missing here, DeeP, is that those things are NOT important to some of us! What may be an ameninty to you might be a negetive for others. Don't force your preferences on me. I prefer OKW for exactly the reasons you don't! That should not matter to you or anyone else.

 

[mrszrw]

I'm done reading this post. I'm not give desp. any more time to stand on the soap box in my house.


I hope everyone has a nice holiday.

 

[PamOKW]

Yes, OKW has greater availability. See multiple posts detailing the reasons for this all of which do not require anyone "not liking" OKW. There is no indication of any problem at OKW. Do people have "wish lists" for all the resorts? Probably. Is there a "problem" -- in my opinion that has not been proven.

You are asking MS the wrong questions if you want to determine if there is a problem at OKW. The question is not what resort has the greatest availability...once SSR is built out they will hold that banner since they will then be the largest resort. The first thing you need to know is what is the percentage of each resort that is filled "the day after". My previous example showed how more rooms for 12/25 would be available at OKW just by attrition. On 12/26 when a survey was done DVC might find that OKW and BWV were at 100% capacity while VWL and BCV were at 99% capacity because a snowstorm prevented some travelers from arriving for their reservations. If OKW is consistently at 25% occupancy and the other resorts at 90-100% occupancy, then come back and discuss the crisis.

One other way to look at this. Every time I call BWV to book a standard view they are taken. However, they have preferred view available and MS has told me that this is always easier to book than standard view. Let's find out what is wrong with the preferred view rooms that makes them so much less desirable. I don't think it's the point difference it must be something else that needs to be fixed. (It couldn't be because THERE ARE MORE OF THEM.)

It's Thanksgiving -- take a break.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

 

[DeeP]

Originally posted by dianeschlicht
One thing you are missing here, DeeP, is that those things are NOT important to some of us! What may be an ameninty to you might be a negetive for others. Don't force your preferences on me. I prefer OKW for exactly the reasons you don't! That should not matter to you or anyone else.

I did not say whether I thought these things were important or not, nor did I say they should be added to OKW; I merely said that IF these amenities were ever added to OKW then there would most likely be a substantial increase in OKW dues to pay for such amenities and therefore the dues between OKW and BWV etc would be more even then it presently is.
The funny part of this whole thread is: first I NEVER in a million years expected this thread to get the number of responses it did and also I really could care less if OKW ever adds any additional amenities to the resort. This was not my purpose when I posted the orginal question. I have stayed at OKW in the past and most probably will stay there again sometime in the next 38 years but it has always been and most probably always will be my last choice because FOR ME, I do not feel it gives me the same value for my pts as the other DVC resorts do.
My question and what prompted me starting the thread in the first place is wondering how many members there are who, like Kansas, bought at the cheapest dues resort with the sole intent of never staying at that resort but of always staying at a higher priced resort, using their enhanced amenities, superior location etc and essentially never paying for it. That was my orginal thought/question/query.
I do have to add one thing though, everyone keeps jumping all over Desperado to "produce official DVC sanctioned proof" that OKW has the greatest overall lowest booking record to support his theory, BUT on the flip side of the coin, I do not see anyone "producing official DVC santioned proof" refuting this theory either!!!!! If Desperado's theory does not hold water without "official DVC santioned proof" then neither does the flip side without the same proof. I guess the fact that everyone has posted experiences for years stating how OKW is ALWAYS the easiest resort to get into, blah, blah, blah does not count because it is not official DVC sanctioned experiences. LOL!
Personally, I could not care less whether OKW is at full occupancy or totally empty 24/7. It is immaterial to me because I do not stay at this resort enough for it to even matter. What does bother me is if someone buys OKW just because it is the cheapest resort when they know they will not stay there. I am NOT talking about a member doing the usual staying occasionally at other resorts, I mean someone that NEVER stays at OKW and bought a contract there solely because it is cheaper. Yes, I know it is completely within the rules, guidelines etc., but it is still trying to beat the system and it is still annoying. Buy where you want to stay and also where you want to pay to stay at.

 

[AZKathy]

I think that with all these posts, only one person admitted to buying at OKW for sole purposes of what the original post asked ( I may have missed others, but there are a lot of posts to read on this thread!). That is not a lot with the amount of posts on this thread. (Although a lot of posts came from one person asking how we could improve OKW. )

1. I purchased at OKW solely to stay there. I had an option of four resorts to purchase at that time, and chose OKW for what it offered that appealed to me and my family. If we ever choose to try another resort at the 7 month window, that is our option through the contract.

2. I won't respond to what needs to be improved at OKW on this thread since that was not the OP topic. If one wants an answer to that, start another thread.

3. Non responsiveness does not necessarily mean defensiveness or evasiveness. I could mean feeling overly OFFENDED! Okay, so I am not really that tough skinned, that is why I stay quiet so much.

4. Happy Thanksgiving. Let's be thankful that we all can afford to purchase DVC and vacation at WDW and other marvelous destinations. So many people cannot even get a Thanksgiving dinner put on the table today. God bless you all.

 

[DeeP]

AZKathy,
I agree it appears as though throughout all these pages the only person that openly admits buying at the cheapest dues resort with NO intent of ever staying there is Kansas. But in all honesty that is like asking on this board how many DVC members hate their DVC membership. This board represents a very small % of actual DVC members and the members that do frequent this board also tend to look at their DVC membership through Mickey colored glasses, myself included.
To be perfectly honest, I never even thought of buying at the cheapest dues resort just for the cost and have never read of anyone else doing this either, so when Kansas posted that this is what works successfully for them, it got me curious.

 

[KANSAS]

DeeP
I hope you do not have any really hard feelings, with me using OKW POints only at BCV, by the way. I never use that at your boardwalk, hate the long windings halls and hate wdw bus stop at Boardwalk.

I just feel it works for me and I even called DVC membership services , on wednesday, to ask them, if I was doing anything wrong, in any way. they told me absolutely not.

I feel since, i will only have myself to blame, if i cannot use my OKW points at BCV, someday, at 7 month window. I should not be criticized, since I am the one 100% at risk.

I understand, your point completely. I get all the same amenities of people paying BCV dues, but really only play OKW DUES,
but Could convinciable be saving
50 cents per point, over next 39 years, which could be $19,000.

IF i am successful at getting to 1000 OKW points, in the near future.

 

[KANSAS]

i am also gambling on advice, given to me by DEAN, that OKW, will
always be the lowest annual dues, of any onsite DVC resort,
no interest in low annual dues,offsite dvc resort.

I put DEANS advice at the highest regard, hopefully it will be right again. He is batting 100% so far, with advice given to me.

 

[DeeP]

Originally posted by KANSAS
DeeP
I hope you do not have any really hard feelings, with me using OKW POints only at BCV, by the way. I never use that at your boardwalk, hate the long windings halls and hate wdw bus stop at Boardwalk.

I just feel it works for me and I even called DVC membership services , on wednesday, to ask them, if I was doing anything wrong, in any way. they told me absolutely not.

I feel since, i will only have myself to blame, if i cannot use my OKW points at BCV, someday, at 7 month window. I should not be criticized, since I am the one 100% at risk.

I understand, your point completely. I get all the same amenities of people paying BCV dues, but really only play OKW DUES,
but Could convinciable be saving
50 cents per point, over next 39 years, which could be $19,000.

IF i am successful at getting to 1000 OKW points, in the near future.

I do not totally agree with doing this but I certainly have no hard feelings towards those that do this. I must admit the cheap part of me thinks: "Gee, why didn't I think of that? LOL! But in all honesty I love staying at BWV so much and dislike staying at OKW so much that taking the chance of not being able to get into any resort but OKW would not be worth it to me.

 

[KANSAS]

DeeP

I think, I am kinda of flattered?

 

[KANSAS]

DeeP

I wish I could take 100% credit, for the theory. I decided on it, after listening, to dean. HE told me many times, to think about the annual dues, that you are committing to, for the next 38 years, when you pick your DVC Reosrt.

 

[bicker]

The way I look at it, my fellow BWV and VWL owners who get shut out because they try to book too late are paying for a benefit that they're not taking advantage of -- that's their own fault. Even though you're getting a benefit you're not paying for (technically, in some twiste manner of logic), it isn't my benefit you're getting -- and more specifically someone has paid for that benefit (the home-resort owners shut out by your booking "their" space), and that person had the power to take advantage of that benefit for themself, and neglected to do so.

 

[KANSAS]

deeP
I called Member Services, a few moments Ago. I asked them, if I could my OKW/03 Points for a reservation at BCV/2x2 from July 2,2004-July 9,2004.
I cannot make this reservation, until Decemer 10,2003.
As of November 29,2003. The man, stated, he had PLENTY OF AVAILABILITY,not any problem, which could change by December 10,2003, but highly unlikely.

I thought this was a good test, of my theory, because we are talking summer and I July 4,2004 weekend.

This was not meant to anger you, in any way, just to make my point, using OKW points at BCV, on a regular basis, seems to work just fine for me.

 

[SimbaCub]

One thing to keep in mind, and yes I do work with statistics on a day to day basis, the largest number of room right now is at OKW. Thus, it doesn't take much if just a "few" members trade out or book rooms at other DVC resorts before a large number of rooms becomes available. PamOKW is correct in her explanation--I don't know if I could have explained quite so well so you deserve a pat on the back!! To state that the resort is underutilized is mixing apples and oranges--a pet peeve of mine when people who do NOT know how to make statistical analysis of an issue try to do this to prove a point--because the cause and effect relationships do not exist. Would that explain why both BWV and BCV still have openings for next May? They too are being underutilized? No, it would not.

As for some of DeePs "issues" with statements about BWV, I have stayed there only 3 times and have never been "near" the elevator but at the end of the hall. When I returned after a long day in the parks that walk did feel like 5 miles--especially right after knee surgery. Then again, on my 4 stays at one of my home resorts of OKW walking up the stairs felt like I was climbing Mt Everest so the same thing can be said about both of those resorts: At the end of the day unless you have a room right by the elevator AND the elevator is not too far away, it will ALWAYS feel like a long walk/hike to your room. Regarding trash in the hallways at BWV, I don't mean any offense so please don't take it this way, BUT I have only seen trash outside the rooms at BWV. NEVER at any of my 3 stays at VWL or my 4 trips to OKW or my 2 trips to HHI. Now, does this mean I won't stay there? No, but given I have stayed only 3 times at BWV out of my 12 visits on points--this amounts to 25% of my visits by the way--I cannot say whether or not this is a normal condition. Given the number of stays members have had in the same number of years I have stayed, I would state I don't have the "statistical" confidence to say that BWV looks "trashy" because of the trash outside the doors even though I have seen it there each visit. It would require a lot of data gathering and to be honest, I don't have the time nor do I have the inclination to gather the right amount of data to provide my fellow DVC owners that statistic--sorry folks but that would be a lot of data!! Still, take it with a grain of salt because only those items we DVC owners see that we don't expect to see due to our high standards makes it on these boards. I have never thought to look at the other resorts but if people feel it's a problem then tell DVC management.

I will be taking friends to BCV next May to see that resort as I have not stayed there yet. I do like to try out the other resorts though most of my trips have been to my 2 home resorts. I bought points there to ensure I could stay there during peak times. In addition, only BWV and OKW were open when I bought OKW so there were no other options for people to stay at hence the reason BWV had been so heavily booked at the beginning--the newness and the sheer number of members who owned at OKW. For those of you who have BWV as your home resort, be happy BWV is booked, it means people like to visit your home resort!! Me, I like the idea that if I make a last minute trip I know I can most likely get into OKW. Shh, it's a little secret a lot of people don't realize!! A trip to WDW is better than no trip at all, right?

And for those who doubt the fact I was told I "stole a room from a BWV owner" by booking at the 7 month point, rest assured this incident did indeed occur in May 02. I still feel this member was the rare one in voicing this opinion but it did and still does sting. Keep in mind that many of us do have strong opinions about our home resorts but that doesn't give us the right to insult each other or make accusations like the one I had.

Please, remember if you are going to use statistics to use them properly because it gives those of us who work in the business a bad name when you brandish numbers all over the place without knowing how to use them. I would never dream of telling people how to put a filling on a tooth when I am not a dentist, I leave that to Doc!!

SimbaCub

2 Days Until VWL

 

[KANSAS]

SIMbA CLUB
are you stating that on MAy 2,2003, a BWV owner told you, that she stole a BWV room, because you were using non BWV POintS?
if this is not correct, please clarify???

 

[Nick@ VB+OKW]

Originally posted by SimbaCub
I would never dream of telling people how to put a filling on a tooth when I am not a dentist, I leave that to Doc!!

 

[SimbaCub]

Kansas,
When I was at BWV in May 2002 I was told by a BWV owner that I stole her family's room because they couldn't get into a standard view 1 bedroom. I politely reminded her that at the 7 month point all resorts open up to non-owners. So, yes, I was accused of stealing a room from a BWV owner because I am not an owner there. . . Sad to say but there are a few unfriendly people out there!! Though I still stay the unfriendly people are in the minority!!

SimbaCub
2 Days Until VWL