Why not buy the cheapest home resort??

[PamOKW]

One more time. You previously stated that there is availability at OKW when there is not availability at other resorts. Your reasoning is that OKW members are not staying at their resort but are going to other resorts because there is something that needs to be "fixed" at OKW. Various people have repeatedly told you that they do not buy into this simplistic reason. I have said several times that without actual facts and figures from DVC about what the true availabilty is at the resorts and who it is that is staying in the resorts, we cannot say anything with certainty.

Let me try to walk through my example again. The only figures I have as "fact" are the number of Vacation Homes but I think I am making a reasonable assumption.

DVC members, as a whole, cancel their reservations at a rate of 1% for reasons such as work, illness, etc. It's reasonable to think these factors would effect DVC members roughly equally across resorts. I'm an owner at BCV but I have made no advance plans. I will book a spur of the moment trip with short notice.

BCV members have fully booked for BCV for December 25 as of May 26. The same has happened at OKW. The resort is fully booked by members as of May 26.

DVC knows that 1% of these resorts will free up due to attrition. BCV will have 2 villas become available. OKW will have 5 villas become available. OKW will have more than twice the availability of of BCV even though both resorts have had 1% of the reservations cancelled.

2 BCV members call between May and September. One takes OKW and one takes BCV. There is now 1 villa at BCV and 4 at OKW. A VWL member wants that OKW GV....OKW is down to 3 villas remaining. Another VWL member sneaks in and takes the last remaining BCV availability. I, the BCV owner, call on November 1 to book Christmas. My goodness! There is nothing available at BCV and there are 2 villas at OKW. Must be all those nasty OKW people using my resort because they have no pool slide. No, that's not it at all. The resort itself is bigger -- a 1% of 531 is greater than 1% of 208. There is more availability due to cancellation at OKW than at BCV.

I hope the example is clearer. If not, I'll leave it to someone else to respond.

For the third time -- May I suggest you start a seperate thread asking for suggestions for improvements at any and all DVC resorts if that's what you'd like to discuss. This thread started out talking about dues.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Bravo, Doc! That is what I tried several times to say way back in this thread. I finally quit responding, because it was getting pretty tiring and obvious that reason had left the building! I think tyis horse died pages ago! Let's quit kicking it!

 

[Nick@ VB+OKW]

Just wondering if you guys are just trying to increase your post counts on this thread . ..............so far in this thread below......

Total Posts: 242
User Posts
Desperado 47
DeeP 21
KANSAS 21
MiaSRN62 17
PamOKW 17
jaysue 11
WebmasterDoc 11
Dean 10

 

[KANSAS]

maybe they should limit us to 5 posts per day, this makes you think twice, before you post
some of the other message boards, i look at, limit you to 5 posts per day

 

[DeeP]

If you feel that someone has posted incorrect information about a resort or DVC policy, feel free to offer a differing opinion or, better yet, a fact quoted from DVC information. A simple rebuttal is often more appreciated and effective.

Some have done this with literature they received from DVC and it has been dismissed as invalid! I guess it all depends on which side of the buffet table you are eating from as to whether the food is considered good/clean/acceptable or not.
Also the ability of some to have censorship in regards to the ability to delete posts/threads, close threads etc can also add or subtract greatly from the flow/slant or even the continued existence/life span of a thread.

 

[Dean]

This thread is amusing. It is very simple though when you boil it down. I personally believe that OKW does have lower occupancy and is more available at times but the same can be said for HH and VB. And BWV is not nearly as difficult as it was in 2000 and 2001 IMO. I've already state the reasons I believe to be present, namely that owners have owned longer and are more willing to venture out. Also many bought before some of the newer resorts and they prefer other besides their home, and this is true for all resorts. I'd guess that in excess of 10% of owners own one place and stay almost exclusively at another. I'd guess a fair amount more play the field and rotate beween multiple resorts.

I'm sure there are things about OKW that could be improved and others that are not fixeable. There are also things about every resort that can be improved. The problem is that what is an improvement for one is a problem for another. OKW owners voted for no slide, I don't know everyone's reasoning. It might have been financial for some, preference for other. I think this happened after VWL but am not certain.

I have NO problem with anyone saying they feel OKW should have a slide or that they would prefer one or anything else. I do have a problem with putting down OKW members or any others for their usage approach if it's within the rules or for calling them cheap, with DVC, that's an oxymoron. And that's what has happened here. I really don't mind the resort discussion at all. Whether it's BWV has too long hallways, BCV is standard view for preferred points, VB and HH were financial mistakes, etc.

Saying someone is wrong for buying one resort with the idea of using another is misuse of the system is simply rude and inappropriate. It may or may not be a bad decision but it is not a misuse of the system. Also, don't ever expect OKW to catch BWV with dues. The difference will likely stay about 10-12% or thereabouts ongoing.

 

[DeeP]

Also, don't ever expect OKW to catch BWV with dues. The difference will likely stay about 10-12% or thereabouts ongoing.

I agree that OKW will never be even with BWV for dues because there is nothing you can do about the very vast differences in the location of the 2 resorts as far as major parks, convenience, etc. But as far as making the 2 resort's dues a little more even........ you never know. OKW might one day add on a pool slide, have life guards at the pools, elevators, room service, more dining options at the resort, etc., etc., This would bring the resort amenities a little more equal and therefore cause the dues to be more equal.
Hey, one never knows.........stranger things have been known to happen in this world!

 

[SleepyatDVC]

***This following is just my opinion based on my personal observations, experiences, and reasoning.

Reasons that there "always" seem to be availability at OKW and less availability at the other WDW DVC resorts.

1) The obvious which has been pointed out already is that OKW is much larger.

2) I think "newer" owners of the "newer" DVC resorts are more "savvy" with working the system. This is in no way a negative comment. What I mean is that as a BWV owner myself, I force myself to make that BWV reservation 7-11 months out even when I'm not sure of my plans yet, JUST BECAUSE I think it will be harder to get it later and I don't want to take a chance. I will later cancel asap if plans change. I'm sure many other owners do the same. Some cancel right away, some may wait until right before the 30 day window. So, BWV will get booked up quickly.

I believe that many OKW owners are not as "savvy." With the exception of the many OKW owners on this boards, of course! (myself included) But I think a lot of OKW owners never had to use the 7-11 window, except for major holidays or GVs, even when OKW was the ONLY DVC resort so many OKW owners are use to waiting to know for sure when they are going to WDW before making a reservation. With a few exceptions, availability wasn't a problem BEFORE the other DVC resorts, it still isn't as problematic. So, as an owner, I may not be a "pressured" to make an 11 month reservation. Therefore, OKW will not get booked up as early and as quickly as the smaller resorts. There will probably be less "activity" by OKW owners in the 7-11 month window and thus, there will be higher availability early on and for a longer period of time.


3) There seemed to be more owners at OKW with much larger contracts than at the newer DVC resorts. First of all, the minimum requirements were higher in the beginning of the program. When I use to scour the resale listings, there were a lot of large OKW contracts, quite a few were for 1000 points. I remember hearing from the broker that many of these larger contracts were owned by corporations for use by the executives, as employee incentives, etc. Original OKW owners who bought in the beginning (especially, the larger contracts), probably have gone through a life cycle change - kids are out of the house.

I have a suspicion that a significant percentage of OKW points (larger than other WDW DVC resort points) actually get unused and expire!!!! Yikes! This make sense to me. Many of the OKW resales I looked at had a lot of banked points which made them great deals! If Corporate owners and "older" OKW owners don't go to WDW as often as they use to, they bank their points or give them away to friends and family. And if they still don't use the points, they expire. Happens all the time in the timeshare industry, weeks expire without getting used after the novelty of use wears off. The more DVC "savvy" OKW owners are found here on these boards. But based on past polls, it seems that the percentage of OKW owners here do not represent the larger percentage of total OKW owners. So, many OKW owners probably don't even know about the rental market, I think it's a relatively new thing.

The minimum purchase requirements for DVC were lowered. This makes it more affordable to more people - like me! There are more 150 minimum contracts at the newer DVC resorts because it was offered longer. People like me with a 150 point contract are more careful with our points, especially in stretching out those points! We would never let them expire!!! Those that bought larger contracts or multiple smaller contracts at the newer DVC resort bought based on their current usage. And they seem to be actually using all of them - based on the posts I've read! Their usage may change in the future and they may no longer be able to use them all. But I think that these owners may be more "informed" of their renting out options.

Therefore, I believe that some of the "perpetual availabilty" of OKW may be due to a larger percentage of unused and expiring points.

3) Original OKW owners have had more years of use and will probably trade out more - i.e. Disney resorts, concierge collection, etc. - This is also because, on average, they have more points to "burn" and higher mileage when actually using them at their home resort (OKW). This gives Disney an even larger inventory of OKW units to rent out in comparsion to the other DVC resorts, which IMO is one reason why Disney rack rates are relatively lower for OKW units. And even though OKW rates are lower, I don't think that many people can afford them. A large percentage that can afford those rates may chose the Grand Floridian rooms with maid service instead. Those that want the space of condo units may chose to rent a house or one of the many timeshare condos off site instead.

With a larger inventory of rentals available already, it's likely that more unrented inventory of OKW units get "returned" to DVC availabilty for members use. Therefore. also contributing to the "perpetual availabilty" of OKW units.

BOTTOM LINE:

If OKW had low availability when it was the only DVC resort and it suddenly loosened up dramatically when the other DVC resorts opened, then I think that may be a sign of a ex-flux of OKW owners to the other DVC resorts. But I don't think this happened. I think OKW always had good availabilty even in the beginning (with the few mentioned exceptions). While availability at OKW is usually good, it does get booked up too eventually at popular DVC times.

I think there are many factors contributing to the greater availability at OKW. One of those factors may be that OKW owners trade out to other WDW DVC resorts. But I don't think that it is the only factor or even the most significant one. I don't believe that OKW owners trade out A LOT MORE than any other DVC resort owner.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by DeeP
Some have done this with literature they received from DVC and it has been dismissed as invalid! I guess it all depends on which side of the buffet table you are eating from as to whether the food is considered good/clean/acceptable or not.
Also the ability of some to have censorship in regards to the ability to delete posts/threads, close threads etc can also add or subtract greatly from the flow/slant or even the continued existence/life span of a thread.

How a post or information is received is often in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes the desirability of the buffet is all in the presentation.

If you have any issue with the way this, or any other DIS board is moderated, please send your comment to Webmaster@wdwinfo.com . I know for a fact that posts on this board have rarely been deleted and then only after posters have chosen to ignore a posted or personal warning. (Some have even received repeated warnings and still choose to persist.) If anyone feels they have been treated wrongly, by all means, address the issue with the owner of the site.

Discussion of site policy won't be allowed on any board, but may certainly be addressed privately.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Just wondering if you guys are just trying to increase your post counts on this thread . ..............so far in this thread below......

I think Nick is on to us guys

 

[Nick@ VB+OKW]

Originally posted by MiaSRN62
I think Nick is on to us guys

 

[DeeP]

Originally posted by WebmasterDoc
How a post or information is received is often in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes the desirability of the buffet is all in the presentation.

If you have any issue with the way this, or any other DIS board is moderated, please send your comment to Webmaster@wdwinfo.com . I know for a fact that posts on this board have rarely been deleted and then only after posters have chosen to ignore a posted or personal warning. (Some have even received repeated warnings and still choose to persist.) If anyone feels they have been treated wrongly, by all means, address the issue with the owner of the site.

Discussion of site policy won't be allowed on any board, but may certainly be addressed privately.

Thank you for this info.
Been there......... tried all that......several times.........but thank you again for the DIS site policies.
Happy Turkey Day!!

Edited to delete reference to Boscov/Disney/Thanksgiving Day parade. Felt it was best removed since it is technically off topic for the DVC board.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

Here's how we used our points:

We own 150 OKW points and 150 BWV points. We love both resorts. Very different vacations!

We used all our OKW points (banked, current, borrowed) to ensure getting an OKW GV in January 2004.

We also used all our banked, current, and some borrowed BWV points to reserve 2 additional studios and a 1 bedroom at OKW, also in January.

So, I'm doing my part to help even out the OKW points being used at BWV! Hope it makes some people out there happier to hear this!

I prefer staying at BWV for a shorter stay and at OKW for a longer stay. So, over the course of time, I seem to use more BWV points at OKW then OKW points at BWV. I'm glad I have this flexibility to use my points.

Isn't life grand?


Happy Thanksgiving all!

 

[PamOKW]

I said I wouldn't but since Nick mentioned getting post credit

SleepyatDVC, couldn't have said it better myself. I think you've covered every scenario that's been playing in my head and I think you are right on the money with all your observations. I, personally, have been guilty of letting points expire. Not too long ago I read a post that a CM had talked about a member with a large contract who hasn't used it at all for several years. Enough of these and you have weeks that are available throughout the year.

 

[AZKathy]

Originally posted by PamOKW
I said I wouldn't but since Nick mentioned getting post credit

SleepatDVC, couldn't have said it better myself. I think you've covered every scenario that's been playing in my head and I think you are right on the money with all your observations. I, personally, have been guilty of letting points expire. Not too long ago I read a post that a CM had talked about a member with a large contract who hasn't used it at all for several years. Enough of these and you have weeks that are available throughout the year.

Pam, I have a girlfriend who has let a lot of her points go unused and have expired. Things in her life have led her to be unable to vacation as often as she used to currently with her father that has alzheimers. She has more points as a single person than we do for a family of five and she has not been to WDW on vacation for a few summers, now.

 

[KANSAS]

what was original min. Requirement for OKW points, when DVC opened, when bought retail thru guide, obviously, larger than 150.

Also, when did this change take place?

THank you.

hope everyeone has calmed down and will wish each other a HAPPY THANKSGIVING! as I just did.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Shoot, anyone who has a head on their shoulders should be able to figure out why OKW has more availability than the other DVC resorts. You can only cram 5 into a one bedroom at BCV, VWL or BWV. You can cram at least 12 into a one bedroom at OKW. So when they book a one bedroom at OKW, they would have to book a 2 bedroom anywhere else.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Shoot, anyone who has a head on their shoulders should be able to figure out why OKW has more availability than the other DVC resorts. You can only cram 5 into a one bedroom at BCV, VWL or BWV. You can cram at least 12 into a one bedroom at OKW. So when they book a one bedroom at OKW, they would have to book a 2 bedroom anywhere else.

LOL ! Gotta love it

 

[SleepyatDVC]

Originally posted by Deb & Bill
Shoot, anyone who has a head on their shoulders should be able to figure out why OKW has more availability than the other DVC resorts. You can only cram 5 into a one bedroom at BCV, VWL or BWV. You can cram at least 12 into a one bedroom at OKW. So when they book a one bedroom at OKW, they would have to book a 2 bedroom anywhere else.

 

[Desperado]

I was going to let this older post a couple of pages back go by, but.....

Originally posted by Dean
Despardo, to quote you in another post.

A problem with having to have the last word?

Ah ha!! I knew you couldn't let that one go!! You had to go so far as to as to copy and paste from a different thread several days ago, bringing that quote from that thread to this thread in order to try to get the last word!!! It's a compulssion, get control!! You couldn't let that other thread go, without getting the last word here, you are busted big time!!!


I'll get control of mine in this thread as best I can, one more post for me, then I'll stop.